Climate change sceptics
 

They have gone very quiet. Maybe it's something to do with the terrible flooding and bush fires we have had recently.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Still here- I am only sceptical that it is entirely man-made, I think climates change naturally, and man is just helping the efforts along.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

I don't think anyone has ever argued climate change is 'entirely' man made. The debate is what impact human actions are having on the recent period of warming.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Spoiler alert.

Earths Climate has always been dynamic.

The argument is how much impact man has made on this. Personally I'm certain it's negligible.

If we were pumping oxygen out into the Atmosphere at the same rate as we have Carbon then possibly would have some serious worries on our hands.

Thats one thing this pseudo nouveau religion debate has taught me.... We are worried about the wrong climate effect.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

I think we are having a big impact on climate change and I consider that our actions are speeding things up. Yes, climate change has been dynamic but we have been on the earth for a fraction of geological time and there have been periods in geological history where humans would struggle to survive.

he most worrying thing is that when I was doing my Geology degree the lecturers explained that it takes around 100 years for the effects of greenhouses gases in the atmosphere to be felt.

Regardless of whether you are a sceptic or not, it's hard to deny that humans have had a severe detrimental impact on our planet (e.g. pollution, urban sprawl, deforestation, species extinction etc).

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

You are so right. We need to be worrying more about the stupidity of building in flood plains and failing to adapt to bush living by taking appropriate precautions (because we arent allowed to for fear of decimating the population of green toed spotted geckos), failing to take into account growing populations and their infrastructure needs etc. The CO2 religion is diverting attention away from where it really needs to be - adaptation to a climate we know changes drastically and always has. This is NOT a new phenomenon, we have had floods and fires before and just as bad except not with the same population density.

As the evidence grows that we are in fact heading into a period of significant cooling, we should be a darn sight more worried about the effect that will have. Another mini ice age wouldnt be my choice.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

What evidence would this be? The global cooling myth has been around since the 1970s.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

So have yer clothes:p

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

But whenever there is a disaster on theis scale they compare it to "The great flood of '74" And with the bushfires....compared to Black Friday in 1934 etc etc, its happened before....so is it global warming? cooling? Or mother nature being a big beatch?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Brisbane's Major Floods

* 1841 - 8.4m
* 1844 - 7m
* 1864 - 3.8m
* 1887 - 3.8m
* 1889 - 3.8m
* 1890 - 5.3m
* 1893 - 8.3m
* 1907 - 3.5m
* 1974 - 5.45m

Interesting stats there.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

it's impossible to determine whether individual weather events are caused by global warming, however, the increasing intensity/frequency of global events is a major concern.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Or is it with global media we now know what is happening everywhere? 300 years ago what was happening in around the world, a flood in Aus,an earthquake in NZ, a Tsunami in Indonesia who (in the west)would know?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Possibly for the general public. But scientists have been studying climatology for thousands of years.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Like living in Queensland and not building a house on stilts.... :unsure:

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Geologists....

'Natural disaster' (for want of a beter term) history is easy enough to study if you know what to look for.

Hence the relevant scientists know about things like devasting yellowstone supervolcanic activity thas only blown a handful of times in the last 2.1 million years. No human have observed an eruption directly - but the evidence is irrefutable.

I'm sure the same is true of major flood events (which leave significant deposits) - they can be measured restrospectively without anyone having observed them.


Having said that, I agree with your sentiment one reason the world seems so utterly f*&ked up at the moment is we all get to hear about every 'newsworthy' event - and now in glorious HD technicolour to make things as dramatic as possible.



(Office operating perfectly normally and everyone present here at work today in Brisbane.... no need for hystrical over-reactions!)

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

I remember studying carbon isotopes while doing my geology degree ! Fun times.

I agree though. The media does go over the top. Channel 9's coverage of the floods has been way over the top. I have found it sensationalist and, in some cases, insensitive/disrespectful to the people who have sadly lost their lives in QLD.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

This is a direct quote from the Seventh-day Adventist Church in their door to door spiel . (and about as accurate )::unsure:

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Care to elaborate on this statement?

Could you provide evidence as to why what I have said is inaccurate?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

increasing frequency and intensity of global events are not supported by any factual information it is just an opinion of what you think .

Floods and drought have always been around , the greater population density magnify s the problem , but is the problem any worse ?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Whether you believe in climate change or not the single biggest detrimental effect humanity is bringing on the planet is caused by population growth.

More people = more food = more energy = more industrialization = more concrete...and so on.

Control population = control demand = stability.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Oh really? You had better inform all of the scientists studying the impacts of global warming and the increase of extreme weather that they are wasting their time. It's just my opinion after all.

So in your opinion the only factor that influences flooding and drought is population density? Interesting.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

no , I don,t agree with your off the cuff remarks , what I do agree with is that climate is dynamic , read a small bit of what Benjamin Franklin c1750 had to say about the Gulf Stream and its effect on European climate and what would happen in the case of warming in the Arctic - it makes interesting conclusions, which could be said is what is happening now.

the increase of extreme weather - I have yet to see any statistical evidence of this "fact "

The Australian BOM usually uses a 30 span to show changes , not a 10 year snip.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

My off the cuff remarks? :rofl: It was you that made disparaging comments comparing me to the Seventh-day Adventist church. I am prepared to forgive you though.

Also, nobody is arguing that the climate isn't dynamic. The whole point of the debate revolves around human affectation on climate change.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Google it. I respect your opinion to disagree with the evidence but you can't just say it doesn't exists as this is incorrect.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

So we agree on something , all my comment is about is the use of the term "increasing frequency / intensity " - I will leave it at that , cheers.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Agreed, except I don't think it works the other way. You'll struggle to find any climate change believers who say that it is ONLY down to man. However there are plenty of sceptics out there who will tell you that man doesn't contribute to global warming one bit and it is a consequence that we have no control over.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

There are a lot of climate change sceptics that will tell you it's all a bit of a conspiracy theory. Maybe it appeals to a certain demographic. ;)

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Well before the Carbonites, Banjo Patterson had it summed up back in 1895

I love A Sunburnt Country

The love of field and coppice,
Of green and shaded Lanes,
Of ordered woods and gardens,
Is running in your veins;
Strong love of grey-blue distance,
Brown streams and soft, dim skies -
I know but cannot share it,
My love is otherwise.

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of drought and flooding rains,
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me.


The tragic ring-barked forests
Stark white beneath the moon,
The sapphire-misted mountains,
The hot gold hush of noon.
Green tangle of the brushes
Where lithe lianas coil,
An orchids deck the tree-tops
And ferns the crimson soil.


Core of my heart, my country!
Her pitiless blue sky,
When sick at heart around us
We see the cattle die -
But then the grey clouds gather
And we can bless again
The drumming of an army,
The steady, soaking rain.


Core of my heart, my country!
Land of the Rainbow Gold,
For flood and fire and famine,
She pays us back threefold;
Over the thirsty paddocks,
Watch, after many days,
The filmy veil of greenness
That thickens as we gaze.


An opal-hearted country,
A wilful, lavish land -
All you who have not loved her,
You will not understand -
Though Earth holds many splendours,
Wherever I may die,
I know to what brown Country
My homing thoughts will fly.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Umm actually that would have been Dorothea McKellar would it not?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Yes you are correct...


http://www.dorotheamackellar.com.au/.../mycountry.htm

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

In one of the countless other climate/global warming threads I posted this...

Is the world getting warmer.. probably.
Are 'we' to blame... debatable, but probably.
Can we do anything about it... probably.
Will we do anything about it... not a bloody hope.

I think we would be much better planning for its effects than trying to prevent them because I would be amazed if we, as a planet, can stop what is already in process.... especially with the economic growth of the BRIC nations.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't at least attempt to limit CO2 emissions, just that I think the process of warming is already underway and won't be stopped by any actions we take now.

Nothing has changed my opionion so far.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Pretty much agree with everything you have said.

To halt the process of global warming will take a complete shift in our society's ideals and ways of living. I don't think everyday people want to do this and that's why the climate change sceptic voice has got so strong. The easy option is to do nothing and hope it will go away. We can then live life as we always have done.

Of course some politicians/big businesses have seized the moment to jump on the sceptic bandwagon as they see cutting emissions as harming existing ways of doing business.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

They are wasting their time and they know they are wasting their time. The only problem is that these days unless you prefix your grant application with "To study the effects of global warming on........." you won't get a grant and you'll be unemployed of teaching undergraduates (god forbid that).

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

I don't think anyone has denied climate change either :D

Question is: what is a "Climate change sceptic" ? Someone who is sceptical about the cause of the changes ?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Can anyone prove it either way? I've yet to see any strong or consistent arguments either way. As evidenced by this thread.

I get the impression that floods and fires have been happening for a long time and they even predate industrialisation.

I also question that scientists have been studying climatology for thousands of years as science (as we now know it) hasn't been around for 1000s of years. I'll give you 750 at most.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

History is obviously not your subject.;) Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians wrote about meteorological and climatological events. The ancient Greeks also wrote about colder and wetter periods in Europe (in the first millennium) than now.

I could find more references to ancient writings about climatology, but I would have to dig out my old text books.

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

And that is studying is it? Rudd went to Kyoto to sign up a climate change deal and wrote a speech yet it is clear he knows FA about anything. Was he studying it then?

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Ah but he didn't have yer man Casual's text books to refer too:rolleyes:

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

Maybe he had a few Babylonian tablets and a roll of papyrus. :rolleyes:

Re: Climate change sceptics
 

No that's the aussie health service.