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Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by moneypenny20
(Post 12786945)
The whole point is that the current situation is in no way 'normal' , nor is it part and parcel of living here. If you just read some of what's been posted, you'd realise that.
It was close to this bad in Victoria and South Australia in 1983, Ash Wednesday 16th February Melbourne was cut off from the rest of Australia by a ring of fire. The death toll was far higher @ 75 people, 47 died in 12 hours.. We also had an unprecedented dust storm that blanketed the whole city. There were quite a few towns wiped out as well in Victoria at least. Macedon, Aireys inlet and Lorne, plus smaller places like Bullangarook and Trentham.. 130,000 firefighters were fighting the fire at the same time. However that was in peak fire season in Victoria February, and we haven't got there yet. Plus the above was only in two states. Having said that Melbourne itself was more badly affected back in 1983. Burning verges on the fringes of the outlying housing estates in places like Melton and the Outer East. Black Friday 1939 was worse than Ash Wednesday. 2 million hectares and 71 dead. One thing that is better about this current fire thankfully, a much lower death toll. It is far more widespread though affecting all of Australia. |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by Pollyana
(Post 12786962)
I can assure you this year is NOT normal. This is by far the worst year on record, that fact is discussed daily in the many briefings taking place within State Fire Service. Loss of ife is less than i previous events, but overall property loss and burnt ground is far greater and the conditions are considered unprecedented.
This event is completely normal:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushfires_in_Australia Perhaps by 'normal' you mean this doesn't happen most years. In which case I would agree that this type of event is not an annual occurrence. But if you mean that this event doesn't happen every decade or so, then reflect on the historical data and decide if that's the really case. |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by mikelincs
(Post 12786965)
But this year everything is so much worse that ever before, exacerbated by the incredibly high temperatures and the very long drought. Despite what some people, ie Scott Morrison, have said this IS due to global warming, nearly every country in the world has had record temperatures, the UK included, December has been so warm, and January has started the same way. There is NO quick fix, but governments do have to take the issue of climate change very seriously, but with people like Morrison and Trump denying it then there is little likelihood of things improving.
From what I've understood from a leading panel of climate experts (NOT including that TV pop scientist Brian Cox) is that they agree that climate science is generally poorly understood. We just don't know! (I'll have to dig out that link) Bear in mind that science is NOT truth; its a methodology for understanding natural law through hypothesis and measurement. |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by rabble_rouser
(Post 12786986)
Not sure about this claim. I'd need a bit more quantitative data AND background of the methodology before deciding if indeed the "climate" is changing permanently (whatever that means - up, down, wetter, hotter, etc), AND if this is a bad thing (e.g. more bushfires).
From what I've understood from a leading panel of climate experts (NOT including that TV pop scientist Brian Cox) is that they agree that climate science is generally poorly understood. We just don't know! (I'll have to dig out that link) Bear in mind that science is NOT truth; its a methodology for understanding natural law through hypothesis and measurement. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...7599f510f8.jpg |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by Moses2013
(Post 12787000)
The main issue will always be the human. As you say, wild fires have always happened but now they affect more humans (unfortunately also animals) and so far humans have managed to control them. Apart from some crazy people starting fires, the main issue is that the people are creating more fuel for the fires. You just have to look at the population and more people means less water for trees and plants. Forests rely on rivers and streams, so we keep pumping out water which means the natural fire stopper is gone.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...7599f510f8.jpg What is this table showing? |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by rabble_rouser
(Post 12787004)
I said ...what? 'As you say, wild fires have always happened but now they affect more humans ' no, I never said this.
What is this table showing? |
Re: Australia's burning
Fires are often worse in Australia because of all the eucalypts, which are highly inflammable due to the oil they have, so they spread quicker and are more difficult to extinguish.
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Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by mikelincs
(Post 12786965)
But this year everything is so much worse that ever before, exacerbated by the incredibly high temperatures and the very long drought. Despite what some people, ie Scott Morrison, have said this IS due to global warming, nearly every country in the world has had record temperatures, the UK included, December has been so warm, and January has started the same way. There is NO quick fix, but governments do have to take the issue of climate change very seriously, but with people like Morrison and Trump denying it then there is little likelihood of things improving.
It amazes me how the truth gets a little twisted when pushing a green agenda. Nothing wrong with using cleaner, alternate fuels, but it needs to make financial sense first and foremost. Telling Morrison and Co to ditch their coal selling tomorrow because of a few beat up truths is outrageous. Morrison and Co are in the business of making money, as they rightly should be. Yes, coal MAY drift away in its use over time, and it's Morrison and Co's job to find the alternate way of making money, or the job of the next guys more likely as these things take time to change. India, China, etc isn't going to be able to switch off their use of fossil fuels tomorrow. |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by mikelincs
(Post 12786965)
But this year everything is so much worse that ever before, exacerbated by the incredibly high temperatures and the very long drought. Despite what some people, ie Scott Morrison, have said this IS due to global warming, nearly every country in the world has had record temperatures, the UK included, December has been so warm, and January has started the same way. There is NO quick fix, but governments do have to take the issue of climate change very seriously, but with people like Morrison and Trump denying it then there is little likelihood of things improving.
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Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by KJMW
(Post 12787063)
Yes ,blame your P.M. and of course Trump. Slightly surprised Trump wasn't the only one blamed!!! Anyway don't you think the 180-200 people arrested for starting fires has got something to do with it, Firemen amongst them would you believe?
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...n-false-claims |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by caretaker
(Post 12787069)
How many of the 24 people arrested for starting fires this season were firemen?
https://www.theguardian.com/australi...n-false-claims |
Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
(Post 12787074)
An update on this story https://www.theguardian.com/australi...lian-bushfires
The Guardian is such a rubbish rag. Bottom of the pile rhetoric. |
Re: Australia's burning
I thought there was an agreement to leave political squabbles off this thread.
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Re: Australia's burning
Originally Posted by rabble_rouser
(Post 12787004)
I said ...what? 'As you say, wild fires have always happened but now they affect more humans ' no, I never said this.
What is this table showing? Population growth.. |
Re: Australia's burning
Looks like the Monsoon at the top of the country is starting to establish itself, so with a bit of luck, that "Should" send moisture over the whole of the country over the next 3 or 4 weeks. Hopefully, we have seen the worst of the fires. Because with what has happened further North it looked ominous for the Great Ocean Road, Grampian and Otway areas of Victoria and the Tasmanian wilderness. They will flair up again this weekend, but that could be the lot for the season with that Monsoon happening. Fingers crossed.
When Melbourne gets affected by smoke, it's usually from Tasmanian fires. |
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