Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 12784632)

So, the drought's got nothing to do with it? Err, okay. Controlled burns are inherently risky at the best of times. Look at the one in the SW of WA a few years ago - very well planned, ideal conditions when they started, yet ended up taking out a couple of houses. Burning after several years of very little rain would be extremely risky - if not impossible

Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 12783993)

Ah, well, I shall tell my cousin that the brains trust says he's got it wrong. That's all I can do. The Greens obviously need a better p-r advisor.

Originally Posted by Amazulu (Post 12784632)

So, the drought's got nothing to do with it? Err, okay. Controlled burns are inherently risky at the best of times. Look at the one in the SW of WA a few years ago - very well planned, ideal conditions when they started, yet ended up taking out a couple of houses. Burning after several years of very little rain would be extremely risky - if not impossible

Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12784666)

Just saying 'err o.k; is a little childish. I didn't say draught has nothing to do with it. Controlled burns are by definition, controlled. In any event they are only part of the arsenal available to the authorities.

Originally Posted by Dreamy (Post 12784890)

I can only speak for the Gospers Mountain fire, but the commissioner said that even if they'd been able to do all the hazard reduction they wanted, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on that fire. I was reading earlier about one of the fire zones down on the south coast of NSW - they'd had hazard reduction over the winter, then they had the fire front go through and thought they were finally in the clear... then when the wind turned it back on itself, they had fireballs lighting up the crowns of the trees and causing another fire incident. Everything is just so incredibly dry :(

Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.

Originally Posted by Dreamy (Post 12784890)

I can only speak for the Gospers Mountain fire, but the commissioner said that even if they'd been able to do all the hazard reduction they wanted, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on that fire. I was reading earlier about one of the fire zones down on the south coast of NSW - they'd had hazard reduction over the winter, then they had the fire front go through and thought they were finally in the clear... then when the wind turned it back on itself, they had fireballs lighting up the crowns of the trees and causing another fire incident. Everything is just so incredibly dry :(

Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12785020)

Sitting here in France and watching what's going on over there it's easy to come up with solutions. Those fires are unprecedented and uncontrollable. Everything you say is true, The 'Crowning' you mention is a phenomeme well known to Firefighters and is deadly in that the fire rushes across the tops of forests and traps those on the ground.

I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse (Post 12785025)

Actually, drought can cause fires. Lightning strike + exceedingly dry vegetation = fire. However, no one's saying the drought caused all these fires. That the drought has exacerbated them can't be refuted.

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12785032)

Its true to say that lightning causes fires but there doesn't have to be a drought at all. Fires, through lightning strikes occur all over the world, they do here, nothing new in that. It is quite obvious though that the fires in Australia are exacerbated, if anything, by poor management of the countryside. That there has been drought conditions for five years should have been a wake up call to both authorities and landowners.

Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12785032)

Its true to say that lightning causes fires but there doesn't have to be a drought at all. Fires, through lightning strikes occur all over the world, they do here, nothing new in that. It is quite obvious though that the fires in Australia are exacerbated, if anything, by poor management of the countryside. That there has been drought conditions for five years should have been a wake up call to both authorities and landowners.

Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 12785035)

I know there has been hazard reduction burns in my area where weather conditions permit, as I'm sure there will have been in other areas. I do think that you are perhaps not appreciating the scale. The following maps are same scale - the first being Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle whilst the second is from the Victoria emergency site.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...8965e2e7e8.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...6e726879bf.jpg

Originally Posted by calman014 (Post 12785046)

As an outsider many miles from the crisis in Australia, I can only express my deep sympathy for the Australian people at the moment. Just like many other countries, it seems some kind of major incident needs to occur in order to display how incompetent and uncaring the current generation of politicians really are. I watch the news and see the flames and remains of people's homes..it really is quite upsetting. You certainly have a lot of support from around the world and with the well known resilience you will get through it. Let's hope the fatalities are kept to a minimum. Best wishes from the Netherlands.

Originally Posted by KJMW (Post 12785020)

Sitting here in France and watching what's going on over there it's easy to come up with solutions. Those fires are unprecedented and uncontrollable. Everything you say is true, The 'Crowning' you mention is a phenomeme well known to Firefighters and is deadly in that the fire rushes across the tops of forests and traps those on the ground.

I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.

Originally Posted by Dorothy (Post 12785076)

That's ok. You sit in France and tell those of us in Australia all about how the fires here are caused. :rolleyes: