Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
Jul 3rd 2008, 10:41 am
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Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...950938651.html
Australia is the most over-governed nation on Earth and reforms should include abolishing the states, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says.
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
What do you think?
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
Jul 3rd 2008, 12:20 pm
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...950938651.html
Australia is the most over-governed nation on Earth and reforms should include abolishing the states, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says.
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
What do you think?"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
Jul 3rd 2008, 12:29 pm
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...950938651.html
Australia is the most over-governed nation on Earth and reforms should include abolishing the states, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says.
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
What do you think?JTL
Jul 3rd 2008, 12:30 pm
#4
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...950938651.html
Australia is the most over-governed nation on Earth and reforms should include abolishing the states, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says.
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
What do you think?"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
Jul 3rd 2008, 12:37 pm
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
Its great. It means everyone can blame everyone else and no one ever get's to take the wrap
That's why we'll never run out of water
That's why we'll never run out of water
Jul 3rd 2008, 1:35 pm
#6
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
No problem with the 3 layers of government. The UK has proved within my lifetime that 2 is not enough and that 4 is too much. I also prefer the relative consistency (geographically and historically) found in Aus compared to the UK.
As for numbers. They could cut down on the number of MPs at the state level (which Victoria did at the last election). The numbers in the state upper houses (where they exist) are a historical hangover and need to be reduced. Tassie is the prime example of this. Although I can see that you probably need a higher ratio (MPs to people) in smaller constituencies; their numbers are a joke.
As for the number of houses at state level I still prefer bicameral systems (and Qld continues to prove this to me). As I've yet to live in a democracy where the ruling party has been voted in on more than 50% of the first preference votes I cannot agree that they have a mandate and therefore the second chamber is required to keep them in check.
Do not wish too hard for the removal of the states. They would just be replaced by Quangos (think Welsh Office and Welsh Assembly) so most if not all the apparent benefits of the new system would disappear whilst the advantages of the old system are removed.
I did do a quick analysis of this when I first arrived and although the MP:People ratio is higher in Aus it's not as big as I thought (compared to the UK). I think people forget to include the members in the UK Assemblies and the House of Lords when they do comparisons.
As for numbers. They could cut down on the number of MPs at the state level (which Victoria did at the last election). The numbers in the state upper houses (where they exist) are a historical hangover and need to be reduced. Tassie is the prime example of this. Although I can see that you probably need a higher ratio (MPs to people) in smaller constituencies; their numbers are a joke.
As for the number of houses at state level I still prefer bicameral systems (and Qld continues to prove this to me). As I've yet to live in a democracy where the ruling party has been voted in on more than 50% of the first preference votes I cannot agree that they have a mandate and therefore the second chamber is required to keep them in check.
Do not wish too hard for the removal of the states. They would just be replaced by Quangos (think Welsh Office and Welsh Assembly) so most if not all the apparent benefits of the new system would disappear whilst the advantages of the old system are removed.
I did do a quick analysis of this when I first arrived and although the MP:People ratio is higher in Aus it's not as big as I thought (compared to the UK). I think people forget to include the members in the UK Assemblies and the House of Lords when they do comparisons.
Last edited by MartinLuther; Jul 3rd 2008 at 1:41 pm.
Jul 3rd 2008, 2:17 pm
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...950938651.html
Australia is the most over-governed nation on Earth and reforms should include abolishing the states, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says.
"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
What do you think?"Fourteen houses of parliament for 22 million people. In Tasmania, they have an MP for every 8,000 electors."
Mr Fitzgibbon said the duplication, inefficiencies, buck passing and blame shifting cost the economy billions.
He said the Business Council of Australia put the cost at $9 billion a year.
Jul 3rd 2008, 2:29 pm
#8
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
No problem with the 3 layers of government. The UK has proved within my lifetime that 2 is not enough and that 4 is too much. I also prefer the relative consistency (geographically and historically) found in Aus compared to the UK.
As for numbers. They could cut down on the number of MPs at the state level (which Victoria did at the last election). The numbers in the state upper houses (where they exist) are a historical hangover and need to be reduced. Tassie is the prime example of this. Although I can see that you probably need a higher ratio (MPs to people) in smaller constituencies; their numbers are a joke.
As for the number of houses at state level I still prefer bicameral systems (and Qld continues to prove this to me). As I've yet to live in a democracy where the ruling party has been voted in on more than 50% of the first preference votes I cannot agree that they have a mandate and therefore the second chamber is required to keep them in check.
Do not wish too hard for the removal of the states. They would just be replaced by Quangos (think Welsh Office and Welsh Assembly) so most if not all the apparent benefits of the new system would disappear whilst the advantages of the old system are removed.
I did do a quick analysis of this when I first arrived and although the MP:People ratio is higher in Aus it's not as big as I thought (compared to the UK). I think people forget to include the members in the UK Assemblies and the House of Lords when they do comparisons.
As for numbers. They could cut down on the number of MPs at the state level (which Victoria did at the last election). The numbers in the state upper houses (where they exist) are a historical hangover and need to be reduced. Tassie is the prime example of this. Although I can see that you probably need a higher ratio (MPs to people) in smaller constituencies; their numbers are a joke.
As for the number of houses at state level I still prefer bicameral systems (and Qld continues to prove this to me). As I've yet to live in a democracy where the ruling party has been voted in on more than 50% of the first preference votes I cannot agree that they have a mandate and therefore the second chamber is required to keep them in check.
Do not wish too hard for the removal of the states. They would just be replaced by Quangos (think Welsh Office and Welsh Assembly) so most if not all the apparent benefits of the new system would disappear whilst the advantages of the old system are removed.
I did do a quick analysis of this when I first arrived and although the MP:People ratio is higher in Aus it's not as big as I thought (compared to the UK). I think people forget to include the members in the UK Assemblies and the House of Lords when they do comparisons.
...refuse daylight savings despite massive poplular will for it... more police corruption...more health care scandals...
But the opposition Liberals and Nationals are so rubbish, no-one would ever vote for them, so really, we've got a one party state,
Vote for the corrupt idiots in power or the morons who can't tie their shoelaces.
Oh, and it's complusory to vote
JTL
Jul 3rd 2008, 9:47 pm
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
I'll try and put it into words: there is something seriously wrong with QLD state politics. The Labour government can have masssive corruption.. lie.. sack ministers... screw up the health service.. break promises on fixing it... nearly run out of water...
...refuse daylight savings despite massive poplular will for it... more police corruption...more health care scandals...
But the opposition Liberals and Nationals are so rubbish, no-one would ever vote for them, so really, we've got a one party state,
Vote for the corrupt idiots in power or the morons who can't tie their shoelaces.
Oh, and it's complusory to vote
JTL
...refuse daylight savings despite massive poplular will for it... more police corruption...more health care scandals...
But the opposition Liberals and Nationals are so rubbish, no-one would ever vote for them, so really, we've got a one party state,
Vote for the corrupt idiots in power or the morons who can't tie their shoelaces.
Oh, and it's complusory to vote
JTL
Originally Posted by Martin Luther writing in plain English with no hidden subtext
As for the number of houses at state level I still prefer bicameral systems (and Qld continues to prove this to me).
I take it you were a fan of direct rule from Westminster when you lived in NI?
Jul 3rd 2008, 10:03 pm
#10
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
its ironic that we have so many politicians here and yet the state is governed by Gunns
Jul 3rd 2008, 10:13 pm
#11
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
Absolutely agree!
Why the heck the ACT needs its own little empire is utterly beyond me. Governed by total numpties who couldnt really make it in the real world with real jobs. I dont think I have ever experienced such incompetence - and I lived in PNG for years and their PS was a joke, but this one is in strong competition.
We have a risk averse moribund system where every man and his dog is sh*t scared of ending up on the front page of the Canberra Times and knee jerks every time someone says something to them in a shopping centre. If you want some whacko idea to get off the ground in ACT just go straight to the minister, threaten to go to the newspaper and they will do it for you for fear of being pilloried on the front page.
Why the heck the ACT needs its own little empire is utterly beyond me. Governed by total numpties who couldnt really make it in the real world with real jobs. I dont think I have ever experienced such incompetence - and I lived in PNG for years and their PS was a joke, but this one is in strong competition.
We have a risk averse moribund system where every man and his dog is sh*t scared of ending up on the front page of the Canberra Times and knee jerks every time someone says something to them in a shopping centre. If you want some whacko idea to get off the ground in ACT just go straight to the minister, threaten to go to the newspaper and they will do it for you for fear of being pilloried on the front page.
Jul 3rd 2008, 10:19 pm
#12
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
Switzerland has at least 28 parliaments and a population of roughly 7.5 million
The MP:People ratio is approximately 1:2500
Australia's ratio is approximately 1:25000 (spot the extra zero).
So I guess the answer to the original question is: No - Australia is not the most over-governed nation on earth.
Maybe we need more MPs to bring peace and good banking to Australia
The MP:People ratio is approximately 1:2500
Australia's ratio is approximately 1:25000 (spot the extra zero).
So I guess the answer to the original question is: No - Australia is not the most over-governed nation on earth.
Maybe we need more MPs to bring peace and good banking to Australia
Jul 4th 2008, 2:53 am
#13
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
I'll try and put it into words: there is something seriously wrong with QLD state politics. The Labour government can have masssive corruption.. lie.. sack ministers... screw up the health service.. break promises on fixing it... nearly run out of water...
...refuse daylight savings despite massive poplular will for it... more police corruption...more health care scandals...
But the opposition Liberals and Nationals are so rubbish, no-one would ever vote for them, so really, we've got a one party state,
Vote for the corrupt idiots in power or the morons who can't tie their shoelaces.
Oh, and it's complusory to vote
JTL
...refuse daylight savings despite massive poplular will for it... more police corruption...more health care scandals...
But the opposition Liberals and Nationals are so rubbish, no-one would ever vote for them, so really, we've got a one party state,
Vote for the corrupt idiots in power or the morons who can't tie their shoelaces.
Oh, and it's complusory to vote
JTL
How on earth did (ex premier) Beattie get the CMC to drop Rob Messenger's case to them re the Merri Rose imprisonment? He had statements from her former staff FFS! It's been common knowledge in govt. for years that they had a fling, she must have then tried to blackmail him and ended up in the clink for doing so. At that time, the details were unclear, he had them supressed legally and got a pat on the back from the public for being firm with corrupt ministers. Very, very clever.
How did he get away with his part in it unless they are all corrupt? That's what I find fascinating.
Not saying it's any better/worse in UK mind.
Jul 4th 2008, 5:06 am
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?
They can't smell a rat even if it has it's arse up their nose
Jul 4th 2008, 6:22 am
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Re: Is Australia the most over-governed nation on earth?