Australia, cultural desert?
Feb 12th 2013 | 6:26 pm
#62
Proudly Deplorable
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From: Alloha snack bar
Feb 12th 2013 | 6:34 pm
#67
Proudly Deplorable
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From: Alloha snack bar
Feb 12th 2013 | 7:19 pm
#69
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 9,910
From: The REAL Utopia.
Re: Australia, cultural desert?
There is a flip side to that ..... Kylie ..... made to cut her teeth in the UK.
Come to think of it, there was or is this band called Pendulum. Some Aussie act that was touring around the UK a few years back. I think they even got a slot on the main stage at Glasto. Has anyone heard of them in Oz ... nahda nothing squat. Very disappointing
Come to think of it, there was or is this band called Pendulum. Some Aussie act that was touring around the UK a few years back. I think they even got a slot on the main stage at Glasto. Has anyone heard of them in Oz ... nahda nothing squat. Very disappointing
Feb 12th 2013 | 7:32 pm
#72
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,623
From: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Re: Australia, cultural desert?
OK, my view goes something like this.
Culture is what separates humans from animals. It's all the stuff that says "this is what it means to be a civilised human being". As such it's not just the arty stuff, it's science, the pursuit of knowledge itself.
Not only that, it's the interconnections, the systems, etc. and the depth and richness of those interconnections.
To say someone, or a 'civilisation' is actually 'civilised', means that they create and appreciate such human efforts and take pains to try to add to them.
So, is Australia a cultural desert?
Well, ignoring the underclass, which exists in every society and get various names which change over time, I'd say Australia is significantly poorer culturally than European countries. In part that's because of the shorter history, lack of depth resulting from that, and the view that looking back to 'the old country' is to be avoided (the reverse of the cultural cringe). It's also, however, because even relative to it's size, Australia doesn't contribute to the same extent.
One of the phrases aussies love to throw around is 'world-class'. Well how much 'world-class' music, inventions, movies, science, literature etc. has been created in Australia? No matter how PC you want to be, it's a fraction of the level you expect of a european country, and not 'top class' in the main either.
Desert? More like Tundra. Some small elements of life, but sparse and not distinctive.
Is that because they tend to focus on sports? Don't have critical mass? Are suburban in setup? Doesn't really matter - they punch below their weight, and capabilities, from a cultural standpoint. They could do so much more, so much better - but the fact is, they don't. Even worse they've taking to aping the US in recent decades; and a copy of child isn't a great place to aspire to be.
Culture is what separates humans from animals. It's all the stuff that says "this is what it means to be a civilised human being". As such it's not just the arty stuff, it's science, the pursuit of knowledge itself.
Not only that, it's the interconnections, the systems, etc. and the depth and richness of those interconnections.
To say someone, or a 'civilisation' is actually 'civilised', means that they create and appreciate such human efforts and take pains to try to add to them.
So, is Australia a cultural desert?
Well, ignoring the underclass, which exists in every society and get various names which change over time, I'd say Australia is significantly poorer culturally than European countries. In part that's because of the shorter history, lack of depth resulting from that, and the view that looking back to 'the old country' is to be avoided (the reverse of the cultural cringe). It's also, however, because even relative to it's size, Australia doesn't contribute to the same extent.
One of the phrases aussies love to throw around is 'world-class'. Well how much 'world-class' music, inventions, movies, science, literature etc. has been created in Australia? No matter how PC you want to be, it's a fraction of the level you expect of a european country, and not 'top class' in the main either.
Desert? More like Tundra. Some small elements of life, but sparse and not distinctive.
Is that because they tend to focus on sports? Don't have critical mass? Are suburban in setup? Doesn't really matter - they punch below their weight, and capabilities, from a cultural standpoint. They could do so much more, so much better - but the fact is, they don't. Even worse they've taking to aping the US in recent decades; and a copy of child isn't a great place to aspire to be.
Well, kind of obviously I don't think its particularly with the numbers.
Music? I'd guess they are running at less than a tenth the rate of the UK
Inventions? They didn't invent wifi (not even close), and that's probably their best effort in the last 20 years.
Movies? Crocodile Dundee(1986)? Mad Max(1979)?
Science? Nope - again maybe a tenth of the UK, and that's generous.
Literature? Only really once they leave the place, and even then...
For a country with a third the population, to run at a generous tenth of the level of the UK does give some serious backing to the idea that culturally they are shooting below their weight.
Music? I'd guess they are running at less than a tenth the rate of the UK
Inventions? They didn't invent wifi (not even close), and that's probably their best effort in the last 20 years.
Movies? Crocodile Dundee(1986)? Mad Max(1979)?
Science? Nope - again maybe a tenth of the UK, and that's generous.
Literature? Only really once they leave the place, and even then...
For a country with a third the population, to run at a generous tenth of the level of the UK does give some serious backing to the idea that culturally they are shooting below their weight.
There is lots of culture elsewhere in Europe that in some counts are more 'cultured' (go back to our discussion). UK people have been lapping up and admiring 'continental' culture for generations. There has long been a bit of a suspicion that the 'continentals' are a bit more 'cultured' (unless you are so pro-English you refuse to entertain the idea). My experience is that in some of the continental countries there is quite a bit more 'sophistication'.
There is a country in Europe which is full of cultured and sophisticated people and has one of the highest per capitas in the world - but total output and total world significance - and cultural input - zilch.
Looking at the bigger picture, I am only interested that there are plenty of cultured Australians by any definition. I think in totality there is more culture in the UK - but it is clear that not everyone taps into it.
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Feb 12th 2013 at 7:34 pm.
Feb 12th 2013 | 8:10 pm
#73
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12,469
From: Ilukapool. WA
Feb 12th 2013 | 8:31 pm
#74
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Australia, cultural desert?
Those movies are a poor representation. Australia does well in many aspects of the performing arts.
Romper Stomper, Gallipoli, Rabbit-Proof Fence, Shine, Animal kingdom, Snowtown, Happy Feet (aus/american) Babe, Shine, Moulin Rouge etc.
Romper Stomper, Gallipoli, Rabbit-Proof Fence, Shine, Animal kingdom, Snowtown, Happy Feet (aus/american) Babe, Shine, Moulin Rouge etc.
