Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Just wondered - I mean what is the true definition of 'alcoholic'?

Not the text book version but the 'real' person version?

:beer: :beer: :beer:

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

I don't know what the text book answer is but I think it's someone who can't go without a drink for a full day.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Does it look like the lady in the mirror ;) :beer:

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Alcoholics go to meetings - otherwise your a drunk. :D

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

:mad:



















Yes :o

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Well what about if you enjoy a drink on a regular basis but you NEVER get drunk - falling down drunk or even pissed?

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Alcoholism isn't about getting legless all the time, it's about not being able to control the craving for a drink.

A bit like smoking, you are an addict if you need one. But some people can smoke just when they go out so therefore they are not addicted.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

What if you don't NEED one but enjoy one? Say some nights you don't want a drink and some nights you do - if you can't refrain when you want one - then does that mean you are an addict? Like people who eat chocolate just because they don't eat chocolate all the time but have it every now and then because they enjoy it - does that make them an addict?

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Why how much chocolate are you eating ;)

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

My dad never ever got legless but he was an alcoholic. He would wake up in the morning and shake, it would take some time to get the lighter to the cigarette. He would be parked outside the pub before opening time lunch and evening (those were the days when they closed for the afternoon). He never got to hiding it because he just went to the pub. He could very occasionally get violent but only if he hadn't been to the pub, never after.

We got him into a rehab place and after three days I had to go and get him because he was crying and at the end of the day, he was an age when it was too late to solve the problem. Unfortunately she is still alive whilst he is now long gone.

It is no different from cigarette or drug addiction.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

I don't know the real-life definition, but I have worked with people who have been referred to as 'functioning alcoholics', i.e. they can hold down a job, have a wife, family etc. But they like a drink.

Apparently they are still alcoholics.:rolleyes:

Alternatively, I've heard alcoholics defined as people who let drink destroy their lives (a la George Best RIP)

I mean by certain definitions Winston Churchill and most of the wartime cabinet were alcos cos they always had a few sherries, a few ports and a few whiskeys etc every day. I'd guess they were all a bit merry by bedtime every night.

I think the proper definition is whether it controls your life.

JTL

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

In my opinion, an alcoholic is someone who wakes up in the morning and 'wants' a drink (like my brother who used to keep a couple of cans next to his bed). Someone who drinks in secret (like the lady that used to bring a bottle of milk into work only for us to eventually realise her erratic behaviour was because it was laced with vodka). Someone who wears a thick woolly jumper when it's roasting hot because they are so very cold and can never get warm and who turns up the pub and seems rather drunk and agressive after only one pint (because they've already been drinking all day but don't admit it), and someone who has excessive twitches when sitting next to you, like the jigging up and down of a knee (all the latter just like my poor friend whom we no longer see since he's attempted to face up to his alcohol addiction that was slowly killing him)

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Would 50 bottles of wife beater a week count as a problem? :o

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Yes I agree with you there :)

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Are you permenantly pissed? :beer: Do you smell of special brew? :(
Do your friends call you a pisshead? :beer: :beer:
If so you are probably an alchoholic.

Glad to help. :)

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Churchill was more than a bit merry. That's why he's got such an odd slurred voice in his speeches... he was constantly pissed. Just think how good he'd have been if he hadn't been drunk!

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

'A.A. literature describes a difference between an "alcoholic" and a "problem drinker", claiming that unlike a ‘problem drinker’ who may drink alcohol but retains the ability to stop or moderate his or her drinking, an alcoholic has an incurable disease rendering them unable to moderate their consumption of alcohol. A.A. states that only the individual themselves can determine whether they are an alcoholic'

source

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

An alcoholic NEEDS to drink. They feel they can't face life without alcohol giving them the "strength" to face it. They NEED drink to face the world, they need a drink to get them through the day. Gradually, they need more drink because they become immune to its effects. Drink becomes what holds them up & they may want to stop but don't have the strength to do so because they feel that without their crutch they will collapse.
They often drink in hidden ways - a bottle in the kitchen cupboard, vodka in the breakfast orange juice; I knew someone who had wine bottles buried in the garden - he used to sit in the garden in the evening, out of sight of his wife. In a drying-out clinic he had vodka in his shampoo bottle.
The more hidden the drinking becomes, the more of a problem the person has. If the person does not want to stop then nothing and noone can make them. They will go to crazy lengths to get drink. and even if they know they are destroying their lives they will be unable to stop.

Often goes hand in hand with mental illness of some kind, and it is an illness in itself - a totally compulsive addiction.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

The AA view of Alcoholism has been discredited by much current research.

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

The CAGE questionnaire is in fairly general use to detect alcohol problems:

http://www.mentalneurologicalprimary...stionnaire.pdf

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Would he have taken the job in the first place if he could,nt drink ??..... :beer: mm

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

This is one of the most difficult questions to answer, either for professionals or the average person in the street.

Many many people who have a drinking problem mistakenly believe they are alcoholics, because the system is designed to tell them that. Fortuantely that attitude is changing, and many are now recognised as having alcohol dependency instead. Sounds the same? It's not.

People with alcohol dependency use it to bring relief from difficult personal circumstances as they often lack coping skills or any support network. Generally they cope with most facets of daily life on a surface level. A change in circumstances or attitude will generally result in less alcohol being consumed and less often. Cravings can and do occur but they can be denied. Generally when they do drink, they drink to get "pleasantly intoxicated" though sometimes to get drunk. They are generally more sociable and less withdrawn than the alcoholic. Their consumption in any drinking session tends to remain at a particular intake level. They drink coffee and eat toast and cereal for breakfast. They might have the occaisional "sickie" from work.

Alcoholics on the other hand (while they may have once been alcohol dependent) tend to drink daily and not necessarily to get pissed (though they often do) but to feel "normal". Life revolves around drinking. As their higher alcohol intake continues, it takes more and more to reach saiety ( point of satisfaction). They then reach a point where they begin to lose their tolerance and often end up drinking from smaller glassess and taking longer to consume it than before. They tend to lose interest in eating and many aspects of living. They develop delusional thinking, talk to themselves, develop "the shakes".They favour a beer, wine or spirits for breakfast.

This now recognised distinction between the two groups led to the formation of RR (rational recovery) groups, which works on the premise that most who abuse alcohol can drink sensibly again. A total change in philosophy to AA, who advocate lifelong abstinence for anyone who has ever transgressed social mores or medical models for safe drinking. Incidentally, current PC thinking from the medical quarter consider more than 4 drinks at a time (3 small bottles of regular strength beer) is "binge" drinking and may indicate a problem! In my opinion, that is just ridiculous.

The "real person" version you asked to hear about is subjective and personal, so therefore varies from person to person and because of this is an extremely unreliable means to draw any conclusion from.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

"an alcoholic has an incurable disease rendering them unable to moderate their consumption of alcohol."


I would have said that it's fairly accurate actually. My uncle can't moderate his drinking. He's nearly died twice. His last GUI bleed (stomach bleed) couldn't be stopped so they were transfusing him with blood whilst it was pouring out elsewhere. :( He ended up with MRSA from all his hospital stays, but it entered his spine and he's had to have the dead tissue around his spinal cord removed and vertebrae fused. The whites of his eyes are yellow and he is a dead man walking.

This 'thing' grips and controls him. He knows if he gets drunk again he'll probably die, but he can't help himself. I feel mostly sorry for my Aunt (his wife) who never truly knew what she was taking on when she married him, even though she thought she did. It was her second marriage and meant to be better than her first, but really it's just out of the frying pan into the fire. :(

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

I question the validity of such a limited questionaire. At the very best it may indicate that there might be a problem but lacks depth, scope or accuracy beyond that.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Not true.

Some of the most successful treatment programmes for drinking problems involve 'Controlled Drinking'.

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

You may question it but it is in widespread use especially in Mental health services.

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

It's true in my uncle's situation, Grayling, which was the example I was using to illustrate my point.

He's been through every 'treatment programme' that there is including controlled drinking and he's still killing himself. It's very sad.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

The outcomes for all approaches to problem drinking are very poor.

The AA model is is very poor as well.

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

A truly sad situation but if your aunt can get him into therapy (not alcohol rehab. He knows his situation and has no doubt "heard it all before") things might improve. Nobody gets to this point without having deep seated issues that have never been dealt with. He needs to discuss this with a clinical psychologist(who does therapy) in my opinion. A qualified psychotherapist might also be of help here. CBT (Cognitive behaviour therapy; what Grayling does) could also be quite useful. It works on identifying thoughts (which come before behaviours) and changing them and thereby changing behaviour.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

I have no doubt that you are correct. That health authorities ( or anyone else) uses it though, has nothing to do with whether it is an effective tool or not.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Well there you go

Design a better one....may be worth a PHD ;)

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Sady Toppa, he's been there and done all that. It seems to be a hopeless situation. My aunt's given up I think. Other than locking him into a room and pushing his meals under the door, she can't stop him. I am sure he has very deep seated issues about lots in his life... He's 60 and he looks like he's 80. He can hardly walk, his liver's packing up (he tells everyone that his liver function tests are those of a healthy man and his doc is amazed :rolleyes: ) Just this last few weeks he's back in hospital because he's got an ulcer on his leg and it just won't heal. It's a tragic way to go.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

So I hear. :(

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

It is a difficult problem to deal with because it is so entrenched by the time it becomes life threatening. And someone that caught up in an addiction can't just change their behaviour if the root causes aren't addressed and techniques to cope put into place.

AA works for some but for many it simply is too simplistic and doesn't meet them at their real point of need.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

The scary bit is that most people harming themselves with Alcohol are not even aware that they are doing it and often find out too late.

If some people on here actually drink as much as they seem to or claim to (judging by what they post) then there are a few on here who seriously need to look at their drinking :eek:

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

My cousin back in the UK died of it when she was just 35 :( It is an awful thing. I feel for your aunt. It must be heartbreaking for her.

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

LOL :D

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

I hope most who make such boasts are just doing the "ego" thing. But as the western world is immersed in an alcohol culture, who knows? And I'm a drinker too lol!

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

Oh I've shifted plenty in my time as well :o

G

Re: Alcoholic? How do you know?
 

That could be me then. :eek: