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Old Feb 14th 2008 | 2:05 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by bluejohn
A lot like the missionaries who went to various countries to change their religion/beliefs to be Christian. There was a lot of trouble and pain caused in the name of Christianity.
True, but Christianity wasn't to blame. I think what a lot of people do is they use ideologies (religion in particular) as a mascot to persuade ordinary people to go along with personal politics. I don't say Islamic people are to blame for terrorist attacks. Unfortunately, selfish but influencial people use Islam as a purpose to get groups of people to work for their own beliefs. If Bin Laden said, "Go blow up a federal building in the West because I say so." Not many people would do it. Some probably would, but in all reason most wouldn't. If he says "Do it for God." He will be able to rally up more support based on peoples belief in their religion. Hitler couldn't have told people to try and invade Poland because he wanted world domination, he wouldn't have had the support. He may have been a terrible man, but he was an exceptional speaker. He managed to convice thousands and thousands of people to fight his for his own politics. I think it's a shame that so many negative opinions have gone towards peoples religions and beliefs based upon corrupt people using the ideologies of those beliefs as a curtain to cover their own intentions. Unfortunately, most of the global population would never see that and take whatever's thrown at them at face value. Education is truly a blessing to those who are lucky enough to have it.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 2:40 am
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by burtreynoldsisonit
True, but Christianity wasn't to blame. I think what a lot of people do is they use ideologies (religion in particular) as a mascot to persuade ordinary people to go along with personal politics. I don't say Islamic people are to blame for terrorist attacks. Unfortunately, selfish but influencial people use Islam as a purpose to get groups of people to work for their own beliefs. If Bin Laden said, "Go blow up a federal building in the West because I say so." Not many people would do it. Some probably would, but in all reason most wouldn't. If he says "Do it for God." He will be able to rally up more support based on peoples belief in their religion. Hitler couldn't have told people to try and invade Poland because he wanted world domination, he wouldn't have had the support. He may have been a terrible man, but he was an exceptional speaker. He managed to convice thousands and thousands of people to fight his for his own politics. I think it's a shame that so many negative opinions have gone towards peoples religions and beliefs based upon corrupt people using the ideologies of those beliefs as a curtain to cover their own intentions. Unfortunately, most of the global population would never see that and take whatever's thrown at them at face value. Education is truly a blessing to those who are lucky enough to have it.
Christianity wasn't to blame, but like you say people used their ideologies and still do. The belief too that they are doing it for their god spurs them on.
The settlers believed the Aboriginals were savages compared to themselves, and so over time tried to make them more like themselves. Unfortunately this went on for years and some of the Christian belief that they were doing what was right can still be remembered by many of those in the Aboriginal communities today.
Other Australians see the petrol sniffing, drunkenness, money being given to them via centrelink.Many people that live in a high Aboriginal community see them being treated differently, something for nothing, trouble making, getting of lightly in court etc. The perception of Aboriginals generally is negative. How do we as a nation change that?
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 2:57 am
  #48  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by bluejohn
Christianity wasn't to blame, but like you say people used their ideologies and still do. The belief too that they are doing it for their god spurs them on.
The settlers believed the Aboriginals were savages compared to themselves, and so over time tried to make them more like themselves. Unfortunately this went on for years and some of the Christian belief that they were doing what was right can still be remembered by many of those in the Aboriginal communities today.
Other Australians see the petrol sniffing, drunkenness, money being given to them via centrelink.Many people that live in a high Aboriginal community see them being treated differently, something for nothing, trouble making, getting of lightly in court etc. The perception of Aboriginals generally is negative. How do we as a nation change that?
This is all true. The past can't be changed but it is invaluable as it now becomes the pages that we can learn from. Like anything in life, the only way to change one way of doing something is to learn a new way. A society is a living organism. Education is our food. If we want to change our current ways, we need to learn a new way. Be it something as simple as more tolerance and acceptance. The blueprint is standard but the application is impossible because as long as more than one opinion lives, no single way can be established. The single opinion of our society is that racism is wrong and nobody should do it. The fact is, rasicm does exist and it always will. This is because you can never change everyones opinion. Somebody, somewhere will have a different view. So the blueprint of everyone living respectfully with one another can be absolutely perfect, but the reality is it would never, ever be practical enough to work. At best we could fake it. Would you rather someone openly disliked you, or pretended to be your friend? It's debatable.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 4:59 am
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by burtreynoldsisonit
This is all true. The past can't be changed but it is invaluable as it now becomes the pages that we can learn from. Like anything in life, the only way to change one way of doing something is to learn a new way. A society is a living organism. Education is our food. If we want to change our current ways, we need to learn a new way. Be it something as simple as more tolerance and acceptance. The blueprint is standard but the application is impossible because as long as more than one opinion lives, no single way can be established. The single opinion of our society is that racism is wrong and nobody should do it. The fact is, rasicm does exist and it always will. This is because you can never change everyones opinion. Somebody, somewhere will have a different view. So the blueprint of everyone living respectfully with one another can be absolutely perfect, but the reality is it would never, ever be practical enough to work. At best we could fake it. Would you rather someone openly disliked you, or pretended to be your friend? It's debatable.
Changing peoples mind set can be difficult and of course education is the best way to handle this. I think a lot of people have a tolerance, and can pretend it sometimes, it is the ones that are really intolerant that need their mind set changing.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 7:46 am
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by burtreynoldsisonit
The single opinion of our society is that racism is wrong and nobody should do it. The fact is, rasicm does exist and it always will.
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first one? Society clearly doesn't have a single opinion on racism. In fact there was a chap on the news the other night who was selling white supremacist tshirts etc, he didn't seem remotely remorseful. That was in Australia, btw, not America.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 7:50 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by augigi
Oh, get stuffed. Don't put words in my mouth - you have no idea of my opinions of or experiences with Aborigines. You obviously can't read very well either, as you appear to have missed the part where I said I don't expect a "neat little solution". You're the one who held yourself out as having some authoritative view after 3 whole days.
Well you're showing the level of your intelligence here, and an utter inability to read, understand or debate. Kindly point out any part of my original post where I offered a solution or an "authoritative" view. Your rambling rant asked me to offer a solution and chided me for not doing so.

I guess every village has its idiots, we've found ours. Keep taking the tablets.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 8:35 am
  #52  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Thank you to the OP - it's great to see a well written posting that doesn't slag off the indigenious people of Australia. I really want to help reconcile Australia but I am not good as explaining it - you have done a nice job.

I note that others have started to 'have a go' since you don't have the answers; you know I am glad the government doesn't have the answers -to me this would be directing a people that don't live by the same ideals. You can't have the 'answers' until the two cultures want exaclty the same thing - I dont think that will ever happen- well not in my lifetime. For this too I am glad.

Aboriginals are one of the few cultures that was pretty much developing for hundreds/thousands of years without outside influences under the European settlers came along - can we really expect them to adopt 'our' way of life and that its - no questions -live like the white man or else?! Who says our way is the right way anyhow?
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 8:50 am
  #53  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by youngy73
i would have to say that they are amongst the most rascist of all people i have ever met. most want everything for nothing and its always someone elses fault. governments are scared of upsetting them. i have done a bit of work in some of the missions on cape york and it aint pretty. they live like animals.they destroy just about everything that is given to them then put there hands out again. it gives you the shits when you see people getting everything for nothing when you have to work your arse off to pay for the roof over your head.
Apart from the color I can take you to a whole area of white people like this, in a place called Reservoir. Around Crevilli St to be precise... possibly the worst example and most hard core of deprived people in Melbourne. Their problem probably goes back at least 4 generations. They would certainly be racist.

There are plenty of Aboriginal people that do make an extreme effort and do fit into mainstream society, there are even some that manage to live both a tribal life and a mainstream with great success. So I doubt if I would be tarnashing the whole lot on a few examples... I mean thats pretty ignorant eh ?

Social deprivation comes in many forms and colours.

Whats the answer... Kill them... wipe them out... or do you think a educated and civilised society should take it on themselves to find solutions to this very difficult problem.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 7:24 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Apart from the color I can take you to a whole area of white people like this, in a place called Reservoir. Around Crevilli St to be precise... possibly the worst example and most hard core of deprived people in Melbourne. Their problem probably goes back at least 4 generations. They would certainly be racist.

There are plenty of Aboriginal people that do make an extreme effort and do fit into mainstream society, there are even some that manage to live both a tribal life and a mainstream with great success. So I doubt if I would be tarnashing the whole lot on a few examples... I mean thats pretty ignorant eh ?

Social deprivation comes in many forms and colours.

Whats the answer... Kill them... wipe them out... or do you think a educated and civilised society should take it on themselves to find solutions to this very difficult problem.
try this one eagle. call me ignorant but here we go. ive just watched the 6 oclock news in cairns. today an aboriginal man in court admitted having oral sex with a minor. he was given more time to press his case as he could see no problem with with actions as it is a tribal custom in the torres strait islands. its like me robbing a house , but its ok because i grew up on a council estate in newcastle. its bullshit. you need to go to a mission and have a look. better still try working in one for a little while. go into some of there homes where dead animals lay around the house, where feaces is smeared on the walls, where fires have been lit in brand new ovens because they could not figure out how to turn it on. this list can go on and on. i really couldnt care whether they are black, brown, pink or orange.they are a very heavy burden to society
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 7:26 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Aboriginal eggs

Aboriginal Eggs

Two Aboriginal lads are riding along Great Eastern Highway on a motorbike.

Their motorbike breaks down and they start hitching a lift.
A friendly trucker stops to see if he can help and the Aboriginals ask him for a lift.

He tells them he has no room in the wagon as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls but he will take a look at the bike for them.
He tries everything he knows but is unable to repair it.

Time is getting on now and he's late for his delivery so he tells the Aboriginals he has to leave.

"Heyyyyy mate" they say "gissa pucken lift".
The trucker once again explains that he has no room as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls.

The Aboriginals put it to the driver that if they can manage to fit in the back will he agree to take them and he agrees.

They manage to squeeze themselves and their motorbike into the back of the wagon so the driver shuts the doors and gets off on his way.

By this time he is really late and so puts his foot down.
Sure enough the coppers pull him up for speeding.

The good officer asks the driver what he is carrying, to which he replies - Aboriginal Eggs.

The policeman obviously doesn't believe this so he wants to take a look.
He opens the back door and quickly shuts it and locks it.

He gets onto his radio and calls for immediate backup from as many officers as possible.

The dispatcher asks what emergency he has that requires so many officers.

The Officer replies: "I've got a wagon with 20,000 Aboriginal eggs in it - 2 have hatched and the bastards have managed to steal a motorbike already".
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 7:44 pm
  #56  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by esperanza
Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first one? Society clearly doesn't have a single opinion on racism. In fact there was a chap on the news the other night who was selling white supremacist tshirts etc, he didn't seem remotely remorseful. That was in Australia, btw, not America.
Yup, that's the point. It's contradictory. The majority opinion on racism is that it should not exist. Racial abuse is a criminal offence. I think most of us can agree on this. But as you say, it still exists. Sometimes, quite blatantly. That's why it will never go away. At best, it will just not be seen. But that's no improvement either.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 8:22 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Aboriginal eggs

Originally Posted by KLF
Aboriginal Eggs

Two Aboriginal lads are riding along Great Eastern Highway on a motorbike.

Their motorbike breaks down and they start hitching a lift.
A friendly trucker stops to see if he can help and the Aboriginals ask him for a lift.

He tells them he has no room in the wagon as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls but he will take a look at the bike for them.
He tries everything he knows but is unable to repair it.

Time is getting on now and he's late for his delivery so he tells the Aboriginals he has to leave.

"Heyyyyy mate" they say "gissa pucken lift".
The trucker once again explains that he has no room as he is carrying 20,000 bowling balls.

The Aboriginals put it to the driver that if they can manage to fit in the back will he agree to take them and he agrees.

They manage to squeeze themselves and their motorbike into the back of the wagon so the driver shuts the doors and gets off on his way.

By this time he is really late and so puts his foot down.
Sure enough the coppers pull him up for speeding.



The good officer asks the driver what he is carrying, to which he replies - Aboriginal Eggs.

The policeman obviously doesn't believe this so he wants to take a look.
He opens the back door and quickly shuts it and locks it.

He gets onto his radio and calls for immediate backup from as many officers as possible.

The dispatcher asks what emergency he has that requires so many officers.

The Officer replies: "I've got a wagon with 20,000 Aboriginal eggs in it - 2 have hatched and the bastards have managed to steal a motorbike already".
F***ing Classic
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 8:29 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle

Whats the answer... Kill them... wipe them out...
They seem to be doing quite a good job of this themselves.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 9:19 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by burtreynoldsisonit
Yup, that's the point. It's contradictory. The majority opinion on racism is that it should not exist. Racial abuse is a criminal offence. I think most of us can agree on this. But as you say, it still exists. Sometimes, quite blatantly. That's why it will never go away. At best, it will just not be seen. But that's no improvement either.

I think you're right on this forum, most people would agree racism is wrong and should not be tolerated. In wider society, I'm not so sure.
There will always be assumptions, prejudice and discrimination.
 
Old Feb 14th 2008 | 9:28 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: Aboriginal experiences

Originally Posted by youngy73
try this one eagle. call me ignorant but here we go. ive just watched the 6 oclock news in cairns. today an aboriginal man in court admitted having oral sex with a minor. he was given more time to press his case as he could see no problem with with actions as it is a tribal custom in the torres strait islands. its like me robbing a house , but its ok because i grew up on a council estate in newcastle. its bullshit. you need to go to a mission and have a look. better still try working in one for a little while. go into some of there homes where dead animals lay around the house, where feaces is smeared on the walls, where fires have been lit in brand new ovens because they could not figure out how to turn it on. this list can go on and on. i really couldnt care whether they are black, brown, pink or orange.they are a very heavy burden to society
I've been told about that inappropriate sexual behaviour by aboriginal women I know here in Melbourne. It is indeed a part of some of their culture, and a percentage of the stolen generation were indeed removed to prevent that happening within and around them. So you do have a point on that basis.

The problem is we have the collision of two worlds, you are witness to one part, one I've hardly seen myself, and the other like here in Melbourne, where for the most part the Aboroginal community fits in quite well.

I can understand why you would view this issue as a lost cause, especially as you have been privvy to the most negative parts of this lifestyle. We have the other end of the spectrum down here, and can cite that the majority of Koori people down here do indeed fit into what is called mainstream society. In fact I know for a fact, that a lot of the Koori people here in Melbourne, go and spend time visiting freinds and relations on tribal lands and come back straight into everyday life without a problem

Education and example on a major scale is whats needed, how you implement thats the problem.

Last edited by ozzieeagle; Feb 14th 2008 at 9:31 pm.
 


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