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Old May 9th 2014, 2:46 am
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Originally Posted by Englishmaple
I love the Isle of Wight - I should look it up on my job search!

BTW I don't have (or qualify for) a senior railcard and I wish I did - have been quite shocked at how high the rail fares have risen (was looking at train fares to Yorkshire recently).
I think the discount on rail fares maybe a gimic, because it seems like everyone qualifies for a discount. You can even ride the train without paying the fare but to do that you have to accompany a disabled person.

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Old May 15th 2014, 8:53 pm
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Quick update. I have 2 job interviews to go to! Also I have become aware of much more ergonomic support with computers in the UK and am looking into getting a vertical mouse amongst other things - which might help with the hand/arm RSI issues.

Things still seem a bit strange and unsettled but I keep going on with applications and just hope things will work out eventually. Do miss my nice cheap Canadian rented apartment though - especially as I've just found out my shipped stuff is due to arrive end of May/beginning of June - I don't quite know where I'm going to put it all in my tiny UK bedroom! I wish the UK rental market was more like Canada - it's very bad here.

The other thing I'm struggling with is the anti-immigrant views in the UK - this week I heard a lot of them and, having lived in Canada, I really don't share the same views - it was hard hearing them.

Will post more when I have more news.
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Old May 15th 2014, 9:49 pm
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Good luck for the interviews!

And it's great that you've found ergonomic stuff to help with the RSI issues, interesting that you find there is more of that in UK than Canada.
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Old May 16th 2014, 12:47 am
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Originally Posted by Englishmaple

So I rang a number and the woman on the phone was so officious and everything was coupled with sentences like "if you do not make this appointment then you can have your benefits cut off" etc etc .. or, in my case, my eligibility for NI credits while I'm hunting for work. I also heard this message several times over on the phone while I was waiting to speak to someone.

So I now have an appointment with the job centre (which I visited yesterday but wasn't allowed to speak to any of the staff! - and had to talk to a security guard to try and get some information about what support was available locally which is how I found out about the job club). However, I have been told that the appointment is at 9.30, I must attend by 9 to complete paper work and if I don't attend then that will affect my claim. Its hard to convey in writing just the punitive way the whole thing was delivered - it was very unpleasant.

I've also contacted the NI people to see if I can do back payments for the years I was away - but that's going to take a few steps to sort out.
NI credits? Does this mean that when we all go back we have to pay the NI credits for the time we were away or we don't get healthcare coverage? In my case, many years!
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Old May 16th 2014, 6:24 am
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Originally Posted by windsong
NI credits? Does this mean that when we all go back we have to pay the NI credits for the time we were away or we don't get healthcare coverage? In my case, many years!
The NI credits aren't linked to health coverage as far as I'm aware (but you should check that given the time you've been away).

The NI credits relate to the state pension.

Since I posted that, I have been informed that my NI credits are not being paid because I've not been in the country long enough - there is a 3 month rule. After 3 months they may pay my NI credits if I'm still unemployed. However I've also had a letter stating that if I continue to sign on at the job centre they may pay my NI credits anyway - but I don't know how far back it will be - it was a very Kafkaesque letter.

So at the moment I sign on, don't get jobseekers allowance or NI credits. Signing on also means I have to fulfill all the requirements of job seekers.

I have a claimant commitment which requires me to do 22 things each week in terms of searching for work. If I do not fulfill these then job centre staff can stop any consideration for NI benefits in the future (if I was receiving jobseekers allowance they would stop my benefits - that seems to be common here now). So it's very time consuming.

There is a computer database called Universal JobMatch which one has to log on daily as well (the job centre staff can see what you're doing on it so they keep tabs too) - I've not yet managed to get that sorted but will need to do it very soon as otherwise I will get called on it.

Hence getting a vertical mouse and some ergonomic stuff will help as so much job hunting stuff is on the computer/Internet.

If you are looking for work in the UK as a returnee, my advice would be to bring as much savings as you can over with you - then you won't stress if there's no support with the benefit/NI system.

It is also possible to pay NI for the years you've been away but it's determined individually and you can only pay so many years back - you have to have 30 years NI contributions in order to qualify for the full state pension.

I have 19 years - so if I get a job and work till 67 I should be okay for the full state pension by then. However, I can pay for some of the years I was away in Canada providing I pay within a particular period of time. I'm leaving it at the moment because I want to see what job I get - I may pay some additional years once I have a job just to make sure I have enough coverage for a full state pension if I end up stopping work before 67 for health reasons.

Sorting out NI is complicated - it's best done once one is back in the UK I think - I had to ring around to request various statements to get the information that I had 19 years paid already.
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Old May 16th 2014, 6:40 am
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Originally Posted by windsong
NI credits? Does this mean that when we all go back we have to pay the NI credits for the time we were away or we don't get healthcare coverage? In my case, many years!
NHS eligibility is based purely on residency. As soon as you are permanently resident in the UK you will be covered by the NHS. NI contributions are not relevant.
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Old May 16th 2014, 8:13 am
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Default Re: Back :)

Originally Posted by rebs
NHS eligibility is based purely on residency. As soon as you are permanently resident in the UK you will be covered by the NHS. NI contributions are not relevant.
We should have a sticky for this, the number of times it gets said.
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Old May 16th 2014, 9:00 am
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Old May 16th 2014, 11:03 am
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Originally Posted by dunroving
We should have a sticky for this, the number of times it gets said.
It's not true of course but do I really have to spell it out again. It's much more complicated than RESIDENCE which 'suggests' that one basically LIVES in the UK and nowhere else.

Are you telling me, for example, that somebody liable for UK taxes on their world income, which could only mean being resident in the UK routinely for 90 days per annum, is not going to have full access to the NHS - given they may in some surgeries/admissions have to argue the case a little that they are.

Plus there's UK state pensioners not actually resident, plus reciprocal agreements and access to primary care for ALL-comers.

It's important to be precise because some of us may be coming and going from the UK and need occasional 'services' when there.

Hence, below covers general - add the pensioners and reciprocals:

from: NHS charges for overseas visitors Standard Note: SN/SP/3051 Last updated: 18 October 2013 (my bolding)

'Ordinary residence can be of long or short duration ............(those) who may currently be covered by the definition include ....... newly arriving family members of existing UK citizens. UK citizenship, past or present payments of UK taxes or National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number, or owning property in the UK are not directly taken into account in the way that ordinary residence has been defined (they might nevertheless be relevant in some circumstances; for example, a right to reside here, which a UK citizen would normally have, might make it easier to satisfy the ordinarily resident criterion or to satisfy one of the exemption criteria that are listed in the next section of this note). It is for the relevant NHS body (usually a hospital’s Overseas Visitors Manager (OVM)) to determine whether a patient is ordinarily resident, based on the circumstances of the individual patient. There is no minimum period of residence that confers ordinarily resident status. In the past, the Department of Health has suggested that someone who has been here for less than 6 months is less likely to meet the “settled” criterion of the ordinary residence description at paragraph 3.5 but it is important to realise that this is only a guideline. The Department of Health guidance provides advice on the way that ordinary residence should be established in practice, and how those who are not ordinarily resident should be identified. In recent years the rules have been subject to changes, both through legislation and through case law, it is therefore advisable to check the latest position.'

You could make that a sticky, but only until the findings of the discussion group on the latest proposed changes - which include allowing expats with X number of years of NICs to have full access, get enacted.

Last edited by Pistolpete2; May 16th 2014 at 11:28 am. Reason: routinely - underlined
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Old May 16th 2014, 11:48 am
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Default Re: Back :)

I was referring just to the general message that NI contributions do not determine NHS eligibility, residence status does.

How "residence" is defined is a separate matter.

I referred to "Groundhog Day" (the movie) in one of the US threads and although we have Wikis, it seems that certain questions come up time and again and maybe a basic sticky at the top of the page would be helpful.

"Groundhog Day - basic questions that come up again and again". The sticky thread could outline the basic answers to the questions and direct people to the relevant Wikis.

What is WEP and will I be affected?

Why should I pay NI contributions while I am overseas?

Can I open a UK bank account from overseas?

Can I transfer my UK pension overseas?

etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
It's not true of course but do I really have to spell it out again. It's much more complicated than RESIDENCE which 'suggests' that one basically LIVES in the UK and nowhere else.

Are you telling me, for example, that somebody liable for UK taxes on their world income, which could only mean being resident in the UK routinely for 90 days per annum, is not going to have full access to the NHS - given they may in some surgeries/admissions have to argue the case a little that they are.

Plus there's UK state pensioners not actually resident, plus reciprocal agreements and access to primary care for ALL-comers.

It's important to be precise because some of us may be coming and going from the UK and need occasional 'services' when there.

Hence, below covers general - add the pensioners and reciprocals:

from: NHS charges for overseas visitors Standard Note: SN/SP/3051 Last updated: 18 October 2013 (my bolding)

'Ordinary residence can be of long or short duration ............(those) who may currently be covered by the definition include ....... newly arriving family members of existing UK citizens. UK citizenship, past or present payments of UK taxes or National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number, or owning property in the UK are not directly taken into account in the way that ordinary residence has been defined (they might nevertheless be relevant in some circumstances; for example, a right to reside here, which a UK citizen would normally have, might make it easier to satisfy the ordinarily resident criterion or to satisfy one of the exemption criteria that are listed in the next section of this note). It is for the relevant NHS body (usually a hospital’s Overseas Visitors Manager (OVM)) to determine whether a patient is ordinarily resident, based on the circumstances of the individual patient. There is no minimum period of residence that confers ordinarily resident status. In the past, the Department of Health has suggested that someone who has been here for less than 6 months is less likely to meet the “settled” criterion of the ordinary residence description at paragraph 3.5 but it is important to realise that this is only a guideline. The Department of Health guidance provides advice on the way that ordinary residence should be established in practice, and how those who are not ordinarily resident should be identified. In recent years the rules have been subject to changes, both through legislation and through case law, it is therefore advisable to check the latest position.'

You could make that a sticky, but only until the findings of the discussion group on the latest proposed changes - which include allowing expats with X number of years of NICs to have full access, get enacted.
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Old May 16th 2014, 11:58 am
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Originally Posted by dunroving
I was referring just to the general message that NI contributions do not determine NHS eligibility, residence status does.
As per my previous, ironically, NI conts may in due course be one way to gain access, but we shall see - it looked overly generous at first glance.

Ref the Ordinary Resident bit, if it isn't indeed blatantly obvious that you ARE, I guess it makes sense to do some sort of reconnaissance of local facilities to pop the question just in case one is in need in due course.

When being wheeled in after a long-haul flight in expectation is hardly the time.
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Old May 16th 2014, 12:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
As per my previous, ironically, NI conts may in due course be one way to gain access, but we shall see - it looked overly generous at first glance.

Ref the Ordinary Resident bit, if it isn't indeed blatantly obvious that you ARE, I guess it makes sense to do some sort of reconnaissance of local facilities to pop the question just in case one is in need in due course.

When being wheeled in after a long-haul flight in expectation is hardly the time.
Having any kind of tan is also a dead giveaway.
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Old May 16th 2014, 12:37 pm
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Originally Posted by dunroving
Having any kind of tan is also a dead giveaway.
Not in Glasgow though! - tanning salon capital of the world .
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Old May 16th 2014, 12:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Englishmaple
The NI credits aren't linked to health coverage as far as I'm aware (but you should check that given the time you've been away).

The NI credits relate to the state pension.

Since I posted that, I have been informed that my NI credits are not being paid because I've not been in the country long enough - there is a 3 month rule. After 3 months they may pay my NI credits if I'm still unemployed. However I've also had a letter stating that if I continue to sign on at the job centre they may pay my NI credits anyway - but I don't know how far back it will be - it was a very Kafkaesque letter.

So at the moment I sign on, don't get jobseekers allowance or NI credits. Signing on also means I have to fulfill all the requirements of job seekers.

I have a claimant commitment which requires me to do 22 things each week in terms of searching for work. If I do not fulfill these then job centre staff can stop any consideration for NI benefits in the future (if I was receiving jobseekers allowance they would stop my benefits - that seems to be common here now). So it's very time consuming.

There is a computer database called Universal JobMatch which one has to log on daily as well (the job centre staff can see what you're doing on it so they keep tabs too) - I've not yet managed to get that sorted but will need to do it very soon as otherwise I will get called on it.

Hence getting a vertical mouse and some ergonomic stuff will help as so much job hunting stuff is on the computer/Internet.

If you are looking for work in the UK as a returnee, my advice would be to bring as much savings as you can over with you - then you won't stress if there's no support with the benefit/NI system.

It is also possible to pay NI for the years you've been away but it's determined individually and you can only pay so many years back - you have to have 30 years NI contributions in order to qualify for the full state pension.

I have 19 years - so if I get a job and work till 67 I should be okay for the full state pension by then. However, I can pay for some of the years I was away in Canada providing I pay within a particular period of time. I'm leaving it at the moment because I want to see what job I get - I may pay some additional years once I have a job just to make sure I have enough coverage for a full state pension if I end up stopping work before 67 for health reasons.

Sorting out NI is complicated - it's best done once one is back in the UK I think - I had to ring around to request various statements to get the information that I had 19 years paid already.
I didn't realize it was related to the state pension. I know about that but forgot that "NI" was the same thing. Talk about being away too long!!!

Very best of luck with the job! You have only been back five minutes and already you have job prospects. That's wonderful!

Last edited by windsong; May 16th 2014 at 12:47 pm.
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Old May 16th 2014, 1:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
Not in Glasgow though! - tanning salon capital of the world .
Sorry, I should have clarified:

Non-orange tan.
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