Why do the English knock England?
Apr 11th 2004, 3:18 pm
#31
Bitter and twisted
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Upmarket
Posts: 17,503
Originally posted by wmoore
If that's the case, why say:
The point of a forum such as this, is to get the whole spectrum of opinions (hence well balanced Grayling). What you are saying is that people who don't have the same outlook as you shouldn't be part of this discussion.
If that's the case, why say:
The point of a forum such as this, is to get the whole spectrum of opinions (hence well balanced Grayling). What you are saying is that people who don't have the same outlook as you shouldn't be part of this discussion.
I would never suggest that.This is an open forum and everyone is entitled to their view.
Simply making Generalised negative statements does not show balance.
It is ,however , a point of view which I may or may not share.I certainly want to hear it though.
G
Apr 11th 2004, 3:20 pm
#32
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Re: UK Problems
Originally posted by Grayling
You may have point there Don.
The word 'hooligan' was coined maybe decades ago.That burglary,violent crime,rape and murder weren't invented in the last 10 years.
You may have point there Don.
The word 'hooligan' was coined maybe decades ago.That burglary,violent crime,rape and murder weren't invented in the last 10 years.
The disrespect shown by the 'youff' etc? The word 'yob' was cockney slang coined in the 19th century. In the 1950s, people complained about Teddy Boys and the breakdown of the moral fibre of society blah, blah. One of UK's plus points is its ability to be self-critical - unfortunately some of the media take it too far; especially when they want to make a political point (yes, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun etc, you may take a bow)
The difference is that in Oz there are many fewer references in the media to the negative sides of living Down Under. The higher murder rates etc. Compare the number of Australian tourists that go missing in UK with Brit tourists that go missing or are murdered in Oz.
The number of suicides in Oz exceeds the number of people killed on its roads. And the suicide rate in Oz is ~50% greater than in the UK.
Not a good advert for a 'dream' is it?
Last edited by MikeStanton; Apr 11th 2004 at 3:31 pm.
Apr 11th 2004, 3:35 pm
#33
The Godfather
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: South East Suburbs of Melbourne
Posts: 7,336
Re: UK Problems
Originally posted by MikeStanton
People have been complaining about the state of Britain for hundreds of years! The disrespect shown by the 'youff' etc? The word 'yob' was cockney slang coined in the 19th century. In the 1950s, people complained about Teddy Boys and the breakdown of the moral fibre of society blah, blah.
One of UK's plus points is its ability to be self-critical - unfortunately some of the media take it too far; especially when they want to make a political point (yes, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun etc, you may take a bow)
The difference is that in Oz there are many fewer references to the negative sides of living Down Under. The higher murder rates etc. Compare the number of Australian tourists that go missing in UK with Brit tourists that go missing or are murdered in Oz.
The suicide rate in Oz exceeds the number of people killed on its roads. And the suicide rate in Oz is ~50% greater than in the UK.
Sticking up for Aus here, I do not have a clue what the suicide statistics are but for people who "have that dream" then go for it. Ive lived here 5 years & never known a soul who has commited suicide but have known plenty who have Poool parties, Barbies, walk about in shorts all Winter etc. Its a very multi culture society which I love, I was brought up in West coast of Scotland with Catholic Protestant issues Which was crap. Ive found Aus to be friendly, fun & yes living the dream. If your nice to people you get the respect back, I love the UK but I & my family are so much happier out here.
Not a good advert for a 'dream' is it?
People have been complaining about the state of Britain for hundreds of years!
The disrespect shown by the 'youff' etc? The word 'yob' was cockney slang coined in the 19th century. In the 1950s, people complained about Teddy Boys and the breakdown of the moral fibre of society blah, blah. One of UK's plus points is its ability to be self-critical - unfortunately some of the media take it too far; especially when they want to make a political point (yes, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun etc, you may take a bow)
The difference is that in Oz there are many fewer references to the negative sides of living Down Under. The higher murder rates etc. Compare the number of Australian tourists that go missing in UK with Brit tourists that go missing or are murdered in Oz.
The suicide rate in Oz exceeds the number of people killed on its roads. And the suicide rate in Oz is ~50% greater than in the UK.
Sticking up for Aus here, I do not have a clue what the suicide statistics are but for people who "have that dream" then go for it. Ive lived here 5 years & never known a soul who has commited suicide but have known plenty who have Poool parties, Barbies, walk about in shorts all Winter etc. Its a very multi culture society which I love, I was brought up in West coast of Scotland with Catholic Protestant issues Which was crap. Ive found Aus to be friendly, fun & yes living the dream. If your nice to people you get the respect back, I love the UK but I & my family are so much happier out here.
Not a good advert for a 'dream' is it?
Apr 11th 2004, 4:12 pm
#34
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 35
The point I have been trying to make is not that people are wrong to want to emigrate. Some people certainly enrich their lives by emigrating. It is that Britain is not the bad place that some people seem to think it is. There are of course bad things about it (just like Australia) but there are also a lot of good things. My friends have decided that Oz is for them and they are going in September. I am looking forward to having holidays staying with them in Perth and when it is cold and grey here maybe I will have a wistful "what if?". Having said that when The sun is shining here or I'm in the pub with friends or on a cheap flight to Prague or building snowmen with the kids or Spending time with family I'll know I did the right thing by staying. In an ideal world I would have spent a couple of years in Oz trying something different and then come home but finances won't permit it. BTW I have Australian friends that live here who miss the Oz weather but love the culture, opportunities and experiences they can get here.Not to mention the fact that they are blown away with how good looking and intelligent us Brits are. 
Apr 11th 2004, 4:17 pm
#35
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Originally posted by kath29
In an ideal world I would have spent a couple of years in Oz trying something different and then come home but finances won't permit it.
In an ideal world I would have spent a couple of years in Oz trying something different and then come home but finances won't permit it.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:24 pm
#36
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Originally posted by kath29
The point I have been trying to make is not that people are wrong to want to emigrate. Some people certainly enrich their lives by emigrating. It is that Britain is not the bad place that some people seem to think it is. There are of course bad things about it (just like Australia) but there are also a lot of good things. My friends have decided that Oz is for them and they are going in September. I am looking forward to having holidays staying with them in Perth and when it is cold and grey here maybe I will have a wistful "what if?". Having said that when The sun is shining here or I'm in the pub with friends or on a cheap flight to Prague or building snowmen with the kids or Spending time with family I'll know I did the right thing by staying. In an ideal world I would have spent a couple of years in Oz trying something different and then come home but finances won't permit it. BTW I have Australian friends that live here who miss the Oz weather but love the culture, opportunities and experiences they can get here.Not to mention the fact that they are blown away with how good looking and intelligent us Brits are.
The point I have been trying to make is not that people are wrong to want to emigrate. Some people certainly enrich their lives by emigrating. It is that Britain is not the bad place that some people seem to think it is. There are of course bad things about it (just like Australia) but there are also a lot of good things. My friends have decided that Oz is for them and they are going in September. I am looking forward to having holidays staying with them in Perth and when it is cold and grey here maybe I will have a wistful "what if?". Having said that when The sun is shining here or I'm in the pub with friends or on a cheap flight to Prague or building snowmen with the kids or Spending time with family I'll know I did the right thing by staying. In an ideal world I would have spent a couple of years in Oz trying something different and then come home but finances won't permit it. BTW I have Australian friends that live here who miss the Oz weather but love the culture, opportunities and experiences they can get here.Not to mention the fact that they are blown away with how good looking and intelligent us Brits are.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:26 pm
#37
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 35
Yes and I would love to do that but I couldn't afford to sell the house and move the family across the world only to move back again a few years later. If we went it would have to be permanent and I don't feel it would be right for us permanently. Good luck to the rest of you though. I hope it works out for you.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:27 pm
#38
The Godfather
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: South East Suburbs of Melbourne
Posts: 7,336
One day Laura, One day.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:29 pm
#39
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 35
by the way Laura if you think England sucks then the sooner you go the better because your negative attitude won't be missed. I'm sure the Australians can't wait for you to arrive.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:32 pm
#40
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Originally posted by Bordy
One day Laura, One day.
One day Laura, One day.
I feel terrible for wishing my life away, but I cant even send off my application till Jan 05...... I am so drunk and so bored, but I know that good things come to those who wait and when I get to Auz it will all be worth it.......... It makes me dead frustrated when I hear all the moans about Auz cos I just wanna be there more than anything else......
this is me.....
Apr 11th 2004, 4:36 pm
#41
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Originally posted by kath29
by the way Laura if you think England sucks then the sooner you go the better because your negative attitude won't be missed. I'm sure the Australians can't wait for you to arrive.
by the way Laura if you think England sucks then the sooner you go the better because your negative attitude won't be missed. I'm sure the Australians can't wait for you to arrive.
Actually Kath, I agree the sooner the better and yes the Auzzies are waiting for me....... quite a few of them actually. I cant understand why people get so protective over precious little england.... There is more to life than england, there is a whole world of adventure waiting out there.................. plus people on here want to live in Auz so why come on the forum and dis them??
Apr 11th 2004, 4:36 pm
#42
The Godfather
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: South East Suburbs of Melbourne
Posts: 7,336
Originally posted by kath29
by the way Laura if you think England sucks then the sooner you go the better because your negative attitude won't be missed. I'm sure the Australians can't wait for you to arrive.
by the way Laura if you think England sucks then the sooner you go the better because your negative attitude won't be missed. I'm sure the Australians can't wait for you to arrive.
Give it a break, nobodys putting down England. She has a dream & why not go for it, many of us have & are loving it.
I moved from Scotland a few years ago & will ALWAYS be Scottish, doesn't mean I'm not loving the life out here.
Apr 11th 2004, 4:40 pm
#43
surfer chic from Teesside
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Halls head, WA
Posts: 1,431
Originally posted by Bordy
Give it a break, nobodys putting down England. She has a dream & why not go for it, many of us have & are loving it.
I moved from Scotland a few years ago & will ALWAYS be Scottish, doesn't mean I'm not loving the life out here.
Give it a break, nobodys putting down England. She has a dream & why not go for it, many of us have & are loving it.
I moved from Scotland a few years ago & will ALWAYS be Scottish, doesn't mean I'm not loving the life out here.
cheers Bordy, its each to their own istnt it, and many peoples dreams are in Auz who r on this forum so why go on about how great england is?? Go to an I love England Forum instead???
lol
Apr 11th 2004, 5:55 pm
#44
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14
Bordy, there are so many defensive, interesting, diverse and even aggressive views on here, that it did seem people were sometimes putting down England (and, at times, Oz).
Grayling, I liked your comment about not getting away from what is in our heads. It's unlikely our surroundings can change that although I'm sure you'll agree that sometimes our environment can have a bearing on the way we feel.
I feel a bit like Kath, I would like to "try" different places to live and if I liked one, then I'd stay because I wanted to, but would always like the option of moving on. Maybe that's partly wanderlust and a wish to experience different cultures/lifestyles. Like Don says, nothing wrong with not making a lifetime commitment.
Kath and Laura, I've enjoyed reading your "discussions"!
Grayling, I liked your comment about not getting away from what is in our heads. It's unlikely our surroundings can change that although I'm sure you'll agree that sometimes our environment can have a bearing on the way we feel.
I feel a bit like Kath, I would like to "try" different places to live and if I liked one, then I'd stay because I wanted to, but would always like the option of moving on. Maybe that's partly wanderlust and a wish to experience different cultures/lifestyles. Like Don says, nothing wrong with not making a lifetime commitment.
Kath and Laura, I've enjoyed reading your "discussions"!
Apr 11th 2004, 6:23 pm
#45
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from canned Oz
Posts: 1,833
Re: Disaffected Brits....
Originally posted by anya4oz
...Where has all that smartness & innovation gone? We've even managed to muck up our IT industry, which used to be a world-beater (there was a time when being a Brit programmer meant you were sought after in all corners of the world!)
...Where has all that smartness & innovation gone? We've even managed to muck up our IT industry, which used to be a world-beater (there was a time when being a Brit programmer meant you were sought after in all corners of the world!)
Some of the smartest and most original thinkers in the world live in the UK - eg Stephen Hawking, Roger Dawkins, Roger Penrose.
I question your comment that UK had a world-beating IT industry. Sure, UK did a lot in the early days (eg inventing programmable computers and virtual memory), but it was the USA that really commercialised IT. The main UK company company, ICL, was never a world-beater - except perhaps at supermarket checkouts.
The 'demise' of the western (UK, Oz, USA etc) IT industry has more to do with the bursting of the dot.com bubble, global availability of relatively cheap computing power, lower overseas labour costs, and the availability of cheap computer training and software to millions.
All of which - along with this forum - have been massively helped by the the world wide web; invented by a Brit, Tim Berners-Lee.