OzTennis

I don't read the Banana (or Glass or Red Slipper et al) diaries but reading from the posts in this thread there might be concerns, based on this diary, that Australian schools are not up to UK standard or that children might get bored in school in Oz or whatever. From somone with experience of both systems, I'll let you into a little secret!

There are good and bad schools in both countries and it is not possible to generalise for the schools of a whole country as well. I bet you are glad I gave you this insider knowledge.

The diary author or authoress admitted that it is his/her diary and no more; others might have different experiences.

Do your homework and you will be able to find good schools and a challenging curriculum everywhere (in both countries).

GCSE's were mentioned; it was reported in the TES a fortnight ago that 2 examination boards in England and Wales gave an A for Mathematics if a pupil got a raw score of 45% (these marks would be standardised to come out in the 80's or 90's) and that a raw score of over 52% was awarded an A*. Not only are examinations getting easier but the pass marks are being lowered!

OzTennis

OzTennis

I would also concur with CK2B in that primary schools in Australia tend to have a different emphasis than in the UK (or Ireland in the past) by concentrating more on developing social skills in the early years than on testing and the basics. In England and Wales at least the latest Government initiatives suggest that there is going to be less testing at an earlier age, perhaps admitting the errors of recent ways.

OzTennis

NickyC

Sorry Olibeneli! The website used to have the fees on it - they must have taken them away. Probably frightened too many people.

There is a School Certificate exam that is taken at the end of Year 10. It's the sort of exam that no-one fails so is practically worthless (much like the way the GSCE's are going from what you said earlier). Really they just mean that you've completed Year 10.

The exams that really count are taken at the end of Year 12 (HSC in NSW, but different names in other states) and are used for University entrance.

Olibeneli

Thanks.......do pupils have to select certain subjects for the yr 12 exams...if so how many ?.......

OzTennis

Called VCE in Victoria incidentally:

http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/

OzTennis

NickyC

Yes. It's a two-year course and they have to do a minimum of 10 units during the final year. Most subjects are 2-units - though some subjects like English and Maths optionally be extended to can take up to 4 units. Effectively it means that most kids do five subjects.

My eldest is taking English (compulsory), Maths, Business Studies, Software Design and Development and Information Processes and Technology (he's the IT oriented one).

My younger one is about to start on English, Maths, Legal Studies, Economics and Modern History (he's a bit more academic!).

Not all schools offer all HSC subjects - but there usually dozens of subjects to choose from - and hundreds if you count all the languages available.

Olibeneli

Hmmmm......why is English compulsory ? What do they study in English at that age (circa 17/18 years I guess ???).....I did O level English and English Literature (Macbeth, Classic poems, Classic books) but nothing in 6th form.
By nature of studying other subjects in English you are learning English.

Can you study bricklaying, metal and wood work.......these would seem better options out there than IT 'cos all that is going to India !!!

jad n rich

Probably not at a 13grand a year private school, does anyone grip how much that sum would be to the average aussie family. Thats your upper crust stuff. Classless australia is a myth.

Many state schools do run bricklaying metal and wood work and allow some kids to start an apprentiships part time while still in school.

I doubt many know this, Aus has a huge problem getting kids to take trades, (climate, the real one here, harsh and hot ausssie kids aint dumb they dont want to be ouside in that ) thousands of apprentiship places are going begging, thats why the monies in trades. But its no walk in the park read up on licences and liability before jumping in with a hammer and plunger

Billabong

For what it's worth, here is our experience of the Oz state school system so far!!

WE have 2 children of school age - Becky is 15 and is in year 10 at the moment. She goes to Redcliffe High school and so far the headmistress and teachers have been fantastic and are providing lot's of advice and guidance that suits Becky's apirations of going to uni and doing arty stuff

Mathew is 11 and in year 7 and is currently at Scarborough State School. So far it has been a little mixed but in general they are teaching things that Mathew has had experience of but there is also stuff that he has never done before.

All in all - no concerns so far!!

However, where I think the kids here have an advantage is when it comes to outdoor stuff. Our kids have never been so active - Mathew rides 15 minutes to school every morning (wouldn't have dreamed of letting him do that in the UK) he is in and out of pools all the time, his sporting life has increased exponentially and in general he is much more confident and outgoing. Becky was always been a bit of a loner in the UK but is totally the opposite here - she is always with friends and generally enjoying herself and is far mor active than she has ever been.

Education is important but so is thier quality of life and how they interact socially - life for them is just so much better now

jayr

Quite, and you've got to earn up to $26k in gross wages to pay that $13k per child.

None the less, and in answer to another poster's question about why so many kids go to private school in Oz, it is at least in part because I , and all other taxpayers, no matter what our income and whether we send our kids to State schools, are subsidising the well off to send their kids private. I strongly object to paying taxes to subsidise privately educated kids when this money would be better directed to the state schooling system.

ABCDiamond

There is a slight flaw in that argument
The parents sending children to Private schools can also say that they are subsidising the State schools with the taxes they pay. They may consider that it isn't fair to pay taxes towards the education of other children whilst not getting much, if any, benefit for their own.

jad n rich

Must admit to being confused on this one.

OK, how does a church school charging only $2000 a child manage to run the school without funding from the government as well? Surely they must be getting government funds too? or how else do they function say 500 kids at 2000 a year, that only covers the wages of 20 teachers What about everything else!

I thought the uproar was that private schools got big chunks of government funds, state or federal they must be getting money from the taxpayer somewhere along the way.

NickyC

No you've got it the wrong way round. I pay a whopping amount of tax and I subsidise YOUR kids. Mine get $1478 a year in government funding whereas yours (if they're at a state school) get around $9000 a year.

Let's all move our kids from the private sector to the public schools. The tax payer will have to find an extra 4.1 billion dollars to fund us - bet you'll really like the increased income tax and dropping standards then.

ABCDiamond

They currently get between 11%(?) and 70% of the amount that a State school gets for each student. So it is cheaper for Tax payers to fund Private Students than it is to pay for State Students.

Some figures to work with:

Let us assume there are 10 children and it costs $10,000 to educate each of them in a State school. (The actual figure is $9 thousand something)
10 Children at $10,000 each = $100,000 in tax payer funds needed

Lets say 2 go to Private school & 8 to State School
Tax payer funds are now distributed as:
2 private at $5,000 each = $10,000
8 State at $11,250 each = $90,000
Result is slightly more money for State schools at the rate of $11,250 per student


Lets say 5 go to Private school & 5 to State School
Tax payer funds are now distributed as:
5 private at $5,000 each = $25,000
5 State at $15,000 each = $75,000
Result is more money for State schools at the rate of $15,000 per student

Assume now that the government drops funding of Private schools, and parents switch back to State schools
10 Children at $10,000 each = $100,000 in tax payer funds
Result = a massive drop in funds for schools down to $10,000 per student


These rates of $5,000 per private student may be on the high side.

Some actual figures include:
The "super Rich Wesley college" which is stated to be getting $7.2Million between its 3,500 students = $2,057 per student.

jad n rich

Schools get funds from Government and the each individual State, the above figures are they the funds from federal government/ State/ or do they include both lots of funds?

I'd really like to understand all this, weve been state, done private too, not a church cheapie but the top of the line :scared: you should see me drive up in the work truck and work gear and drop amongst the polished Prados however this whole issue seems very clouded because I cant quite get to grips with which government is giving which funds to which schools, in fact Ive read far more funds go to Private schools so whats that all about, is that the federal government? or the state?