What is your experience of this?
 

:confused: Hi Guys
Thoughts on this appreciated.
I have just been reading through forum postings and have come across some very negative people….. Obviously I wowould expect everyone to sing Oz praises and everyone has different experiences, so no offence ment by this!

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364946 this is the forum I have been reading

One thing I hadn’t really thought about was what do British teenagers / education leavers tend to do? When we came over to Oz for a reccie a lot of 20ish year old Aussie’s we spoke to couldn’t wait to go off travelling London, Europe etc being the most popular choices also if you go to London there are so many young Aussies (which by the way I am not moaning about) I was just wondering do the British kids go off too?

Also with regards to Education have any of your kids really suffered if returning to UK to work when older?

And do they tend to go back and live in UK when they can make there own choice?

Thanks
Jaime

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

what you have to remeber on the forum part where they are thinking or going back to the uk these people have by and large have well informed opinions on australia and the uk as they have lived in both ,i dont believe anyone on the forum is negative they are stating opinions and real life situations and have arrived after probably a fair amount of mental anguish that they are or will be happier in the uk .I have been here 15 years and personally tried to fit in and in general try and look at life in australia in a positive light ,but in your mind you are fighting abattle in most cases on a daily basis in the end you have to do what is right for yourself ,this in no way means australia is a bad country it is not it has faults not much different to the uk the hearthache most people who want to return feel is they cant work out why they dont like it because so many come here so it must be good ,then they analyze themselves thinking they must be failures when in reality the motto is ''tried it didnt like it so what ''.The problem with this site is the people who are full of enthusiasm and are coming here and by and large have spent a lot of time and cash to get to their dream dont want to see people airing their opinions and possibly ruining their dreams because they dont know for sure in thei own minds wether they are going to like it after all 4 in 10 dont .The fact is nothing is different here to the uk really you still got work ,taxes,blah blah so its down to personal choice do you prefer the uk or aussie as simple as that

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I have been working at my present job for 18 months - International banking and only 5 out of the 6 aussies that have left our small dept have gone over to the UK. I think that those that can afford/have the right qualifications/visas are very tempted to go at least for a few years. I know of several people that have relatives that have never come back.

As Sassenach says what is paradise for one is not for another. I would die if my kids moved back to the UK when older if I had stayed here for their sake. I guess you have to not only think about your kids and their lives but yourself as well because once they come of age they are going to do what makes them happy regardless.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I was afraid that i would come across not wanting to listen to other opinions and i obviously did! This was not intended!
We all went to live in Spain for 6 months and really didn't like it there so i am under no illusion to the difficulties we will face + all the extra ones that the distance will throw into the mix. I just wanted to try and balance out the education thing really as alot of people on that thread basically said it was very behind UK standard and i think that you need to be able to justify this - especially if it would affect your children if they (god forbid!) decided to return to the UK

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

And this is the main reason we are staying here to get Citizenship. Our son was born here so now he is an Australian citizen. If we were to move back to the UK now and say in 20 years time he wanted to move to Australia, we would be unable to return if we don't get citizenship too. Not that I would want to come back but the thought of him being on the otherside of the world doesn't bear thinking about.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Hubby was educated in Oz, he has had no problem getting work here in the UK.

Your kids wont grow up thick, so dont worry. There is no point in comparing the two systems unless you think you may bring them back mid education.

My sister in law (10) loves school, is bright as a button, has won so many award for behaviour and achievement, is polite, fit and healthy and bloody clever to boot. All this under the Australian education system. Cant be all bad.

In my mind, education is more than just words and numbers, you need to think also of the environment your kids will be in as school, and the encouragement they get from their teachers. I wasnt academic, so the teachers didnt bother with me, it didnt matter that I was artistic, just not academic(uk school). Thats not to say that it wont be the same in oz, but according to the hubby, his musical talent was nurtured well, and he had a lot of encouragement for his weak areas.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

The general feeling seems to be that kids in Oz enjoy school more, but don't learn anything. But there's an OECD programme called PISA (Programme for International Sudent Assessment) which evaluates the literacy, maths and scientific abilities of 15-year-olds which shows that the Aussie kids aren't so dumb after all. I haven't gone through the whole chart, but Australia comes in fourth in literacy and sixth in science, while the UK is not in the top six in any category.

It seems that if you want the best in education, then you'd best move to Finland. (Brrrrrrrrrrrrr)

Check it out:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...ent_Assessment

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I've read the link and I've got to say that the UK that they're talking about isn't the one I think we live in!

My son is at primary school, first year about to turn 5 in May, and he spends a lot of his day playing in the sandpit, building lego, knex etc

My younger son goes to preschool and plays some more too. He can't write a jot and I'm not worried about it. Hes happy, generally polite and plays nicely with his friends. I'm not hoping to bring him to Oz to change any of that.

If we do end up in Oz by the time they go to Uni I would be more than prepared for them to come back to UK if necessary but I'd be surprised as it is all relative.

With respects to NHS dentists, you can't find one for love nor money - those that have opened recently have had newsworthy queues outside them. My husbands just had some treatment privately and its the same price as if he had it done NHS anyway!

My conclusion .... everyones different, I love the UK and I want to go to Oz and love Oz too. Its an experience, good, bad, challenging but hopefully fun at the end of the day.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

It is interesting when you actually start to look at fact and not opinion.
Happiness has always been highest on my list of priorities for the kids so Oz sounds good for that. Anyway if my son gets his way he'll be playing cricket for England! so it won't really matter

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

On this forum:
-Facts/statistics are good when Australia comes out favourably (education).
-Facts/statistics are bad when Australia comes out unfavourably (crime), and people start to dispute the validity of the stats, or suggest that opinion and experience count for more than fact!! :D

Seriously, I am just inclined to think that whatever category of life you are looking at, there is good and bad everywhere - good schools, bad schools, low crime areas, high crime areas, etc.

Opinion on these forums is divided re education - there have been loads of threads on here in the last couple of years about the UK v Oz education systems, and the conclusion I have drawn is that neither system is definitively superior than the other. The systems seem different but, time and time again, both appear to be able to churn out intelligent, educated, well-rounded children. :)
(I don't have school-age children so my 'opinion' is just based on what I have read, not experience!!)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

It seems that if you want the best in education, then you'd best move to Finland. (Brrrrrrrrrrrrr)

fellow colleague just come back from Finland having viewed a number of numeracy session within primary and secondary settings..his opinion...our standards are higher than theirs!!

and it was -17 all week...

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

we are in that position now our eldest is staying here because he prefers the laid back lifstyle and feels he will get on better here ie housing ladder i dont know how he arrives at that conclusion i dont know because just about everywhere in australia and the uk is un affordable at the moment .Our youngest who is 18 is coming back with us and is looking forward to a more up beat lifestyle and heaps of places to go and see .We dont really mind if they both end up in aussie or uk as its one of the by products of having both passports and we look at it as an advantage in stead of a negative after all if work is crap in the uk then work in aussie is always an option and vice versa ,what you have to remember our children can live in any country in europe so the possibility of you not seeing them is always on the cards .

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

yes i agree with a lot you say here but we all experience rose tinted glasses in both directions [uk ,ozzie] .A lot of the stuff i read on the forum with people who are copming here ie lower crime rate ,less drugs blah blah is fantasy land .Drugs for instance here are very bad and in my sons school they where dealing drugs on the oval at break times every day and in fact we went outy last night for my boys 18 birthday just as a family and we got on to the topic of drugs and i was even more horrified than i realised ,its rife here in perth and a constant battle for youth not to take something .Now iii guess all this goes on in brit schools too so to me where the advantage to coming here if its the same here ,i can uterly guarantee every single parent here will worrry about their kids and drugs it doesnt dissapear here the australians love drugs .I have focussed on only one aspect of life when considering a move there are many many more and you have to way it all up ,because to me there is no difference and im back to where i started really it just depends where you feel comfortable and at home .We have had friends here who where from one of the most violent places in britain [belfast,shankil road ]they dealt with bigotry and violence from all sides over there and decided to move to perth for a more peaceful life they moved back after 2 years and couldnt stand the boring monotony of living here .

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Were you educated in the UK?

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

"The Australians love drugs!" Thats a strong statement!

I think drugs are a problem all over the world in one way or another, it wouldn't be my main concern as i think that some will try it some won't but it more comes down to the people that they are than anything else. Personally i never felt the need (it was going on all around me) so i am trying to give my children the same mindset as i had.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

This could be a long one!!

I was educated in both Perth & Greater Manchester and my experiences in both education systems is one of the main reasons I'm returning to Perth.

We moved to Perth when i was 8 and i bloody loved my school.
I experienced no problems at all, i was accepted by my peers immediately and I'm still in touch with many of my friends there even though i left 12 years ago. Academically i can not fault the education i received there and the support and acceptance all pupils received was great. We were encouraged to excel in every aspect, including: physically in various sports, musically and artistically!!

I returned to the UK when i was 12 and i experienced the biggest culture shock of my life... aaarggghhhh!! :eek: Immediately i had to have the right clothes, material objects, etc and without these i would have been bullied, fortunately i had a very fast mouth (and a big bro & a big sis) that got me out of all types of scrapes!!

Everyone i knew back in the UK were trying smoking/drinking and and the amount that they swore was beyond belief!! All i wanted to do was ride my bike and play netball...i suddenly had nothing in common with my friends.
I tried the smoking and the drinking (yes, at 12) as most kids probably do, but i would have been much happier with my mates in Oz exploring the lake.

The schooling here was also good and to put your minds at rest, i returned to all of the top sets in secondary school here, went to college and graduated with a 2.1 @ university. I can honestly say i never found the work difficult after an Australian education (oops, apart from History, but that's understandable)!!

Although my point doesn't fall too heavy on the education side of things, the social side played a huge part in my decision for going back.

I'll be starting a family soon and i want my children to have the same opportunities i had without the niggling concerns of what their peers will think and how they will judge them. I appreciate that this is only my experience and had i continued my education in Perth, cigs, drink and drugs could have occurred later, as I'm sure it would have - but a delay would have been nice!!

After all, children are blank canvasses and if they are encouraged and supported to excel in the areas of their own interest they will do well.
And if they inherit my fast mouth, they'll be 'reet'!! ;)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

yes i was,not to far from where you are i was brought up around walsall and the birmingham

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Vash probaly knows that.

I bet he was going to have a go at you about your spelling or grammar.

....to try and make a point about the English education system. :rolleyes:

G

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

i stand by the statement ,i have witnessed it here and i hear it every day at work how good it is and not so long a go a labourer of ours who was 23 and had 2 children gave hinself accidentaly a 'hotshot'' on the job and OD not apretty sight the reason he accidentally gave himselff a hotshot was because his parents had paid out 2500 dollars for a naltrexone implant so he couldnt get a hit off heroin this made him pump more in to his veins to get the hit also thay are addicted to the feel of the steel.You may feel it is your concern when you get here though believe me its every where and cannabis well thats just run of the mill here every one i know does it

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

well it doesnt matter to me how personal somebody wants to get to be honest we cant all be perfect

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I agree....but I could see what was coming ;)

G

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I really love this part of your reply :D . I really got mixed feelings reading all those remarks about UK/OZ, comparing systems and the competitiveness between the ones posting. But your remark TRIED IT DIDN'T LIKE IT SO WHAT sums it all up for me. Instead of proving you're (subjective) right or (subjective) wrong I'd rather stick to the SO WHAT part :D and carry on living my life the way I want too.

Miranda

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Well I was taught in a UK school and there is nothing wrong with my grammar and spelling so that argument would not be a good one. Everyone is different and has diferent talents. My hubby has really bad spelling and grammar, but is excellent at maths etc.

I really don't think that Vash would stoop to that level to get a point across.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I actually think it's irrelevant where the children are educated. Chances are, when they get to 18 they will want to take a year out and travel. Whether they are in Britain and backpack to Aus or living in Aus and want to explore Britain and Europe. They will do it. If they have two passports it makes it slightly easier, but people have been travelling around the world with only one passport for years.

Arkon, I feel for you I really do but you must expect that at some point your son will want to spread his wings and if that means coming back here to explore the southern hemisphere he will do it and hopefully (and presumably) with your blessing.

My 13 year old has already said she is going back to the UK when she leaves school. Whether she does or not, I cannot say but providing we have given them the education, both at home and at school and the love and joy of both countries, I will be happy for her to do what makes her happy.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I agree. Great words from Sassenach.

And who cares about the grammar. His writing style reminds me of Jack Kerouac and what he says is interesting and borne of long experience in the place he is talking about.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

exactly .every single one of us here has an opinion to air and lifes experiences in australia and the uk form those opinions ,but what i find infuriating is when at times peoples real life experiences are belittled and i have done it myself so who am i to judge .My experiences in australia havent been that good especially in regards to drugs as they have always been in my face and my childrens faces and my neighbours are unfriendly but who knows things may have been so different even in adifferent street and a different job ,but at some point one has to draw the line and make a decision ie move to a different street or state or country or whatever you think makes you happy most of us who want to return to the uk do it because they know the lay of the land just as i do it was comfortable for me last year for 6 months untill returning to aussie .We can all state facts from websites and if these help the people who are coming here to form an opinion thats great but from my experience it is better to listen to those that live it .I can give heaps of advice to people who are coming here on how to settle properly ,ie make sure you join a club of some description ,get everything out of your mind about home ,make sure you really like heaps of sun , be prepared for the same social problems ,dont expect aussie pubs to be the same ,dont expect to get anything to eat after 10 pm at night in restaurants,be prepared to be in bed by 9-30 and be up at 5-30 am ,be prepared for a lack of culture,be prepared for a lack of resonably good architecture ,be prepared for the occasional insulting comment about being a pom .be prepared for crap tele ,all these i suppose to varying degrees could be reversed onto the uk ie bad weather etc so as i say its all personal choice and what you prefer .To all those coming good on ya youll either love it or hate it there aint no in between

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

I was educated in a pretty rough part of South London in a grotty comprehensive. My English is of a very high standard and my Maths isn't bad either. I speak four languages and I am university educated (twice), so like you, I guess I would disagree with any notion that you can't get a good education in the UK. :)

The differences between the education systems of the UK and Aus are very minor in the grand scheme of things. Nevertheless, and I'm really serious about this, both countries could learn a great deal from the Republic of Ireland when it comes to a world-beating education system. :)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

But did you read this excerpt?

(England, however, failed to test enough children, meaning that it was not included in the international comparisons.)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Sorry, no I didn't see that. And I was surpised not to see the UK in there. I saw the results for 2000 and Australia and the UK were very close in that one. Oz just ahead in maths and literacy; UK just ahead in science.

I'd certainly not argue with anyone who's had a bad experience of Australian schools - I'm sure that there are plenty of bad ones around. But what I don't accept is the view given by some in the OP's link that you have to go back to the UK if you want your kids to get a decent education.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

What experience have you had with the Australian education system?

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Actually, I didn't.

If that's what I'd wanted to do, I would have done so already.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Thanks Wendy. :)

I do find the frequent belittling of the Australian education system somewhat tiresome, but there's really no point in responding at the same level.

For the record, I received a 100% Australian education and have never been disadvantaged by it since coming to the UK.

In fact, I have just secured a position in which I am paid more than several people who have been with the company for at least three years. :)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Yeah, but they weren't educated in Britain either :p :D :D

Seriosuly, congratulations on the new position. :)

My parents are retired secondary school teachers. I've heard enough from them over the years to appreciate that the UK education system has plenty of flaws, and, in their opinion, much has changed for the worse - the system, standards of teaching/teachers, change in attitudes of pupils, etc. Can't comment from a parenting point of view, and wouldn't use it as a reason to leave UK, but acknowledge that it's nowhere near perfect.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Like I said earlier Vash, it's more to do with the individual than the education system. What I didn't say earlier is that I hardly every attended school from being 8 years old :eek: My Mum would let me stay off so I never went.

Since I left school at the age of 15 with no qualifications at all, I have had two managerial positions. the only difference being that instead of getting the job through skills on paper I have had to work my ass off to prove that I can do the job better than anyone else.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

The reason the australian system is being discussed on the moving back forum it IS relevant to you and your children if they have spent a couple of years in the australian system and are now going back.

Most people who have done this have reported back the children were way behind and experienced difficulty catching up, stressful for the child even if you dont look at the other implications of that.

I dont find the discussions on the moving back forum (its not just people from australia anyway) threatening, quite the opposite the conversations have a depth from the wisdom of actually having lived in 2 countries for a significant length of time, as opposed to the sometimes futile conversations with a long term expat and somebody who has never even vistited the country in question.

Its a more frank/honest/open forum, because people are not threatening anybodies "dream" perception of a place, most people on that fourm are well aware of the good and bad sides of both countries.

For people in the pre immigration stage its an essential read, as long as you can accept the people on it have been there and done it, so it might be more brass tacks than some forums. :)

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

both my children have been educated in the aussie system .

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Hell man! what makes you think that gives you enough reason to comment on it :D :D

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

yes they done alright ,they were taught how to skin up properly anyway :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

This is a great post - can't believe others din't pick up on it.

This has great resonance for me having had experience from the teaching end of both systems.

Especially liked your point about the "fitting in" aspect of UK schools.

Re: What is your experience of this?
 

Cheers NKSK... :)