I'm interested in your thoughts concerning what you think would be/ is a better life for children, living in Australia or England? It's just since we have decided to return to the UK, we keep hearing, 'Why are you going there, it's better for the kids here (Oz)'. When we ask why this is, the answer we get is 'The beaches, sun' which I don't think is a good enough reason. We've sat down and thought about it, this is what we have come up with;

1. Education - England's education system is at least 2 years advanced on Australia. For example, I know they are all suppose to catch up in the end but it does concern me that they don't teach reading/writing in schools until 6 years old here, in the UK my daughter was learning this from 3.

2. Further Education - large choice of Universities in the whole of England. In WA have a choice of 4.

3. Career Prospects - in the UK each town is self sufficient in industry - businesses, offices, etc. Whereas in WA main offices/companies are in the city or there is the construction trade. In the local supermarkets it all seems to be staffed by school leavers, in the UK you'd get a mixed aged, young and old, what are the career prospects for school leavers, is there the choice of employment as there is in the UK? I know we can't comment on the whole of the UK we lived in the Thames Valley where there was plenty of job opportunities.

4. Music - (UK) Variety of music and opportunities to see bands/express yourselves through dress, etc. Live concerts like Glastonbury, Reading Rock, Wembley arena, etc. Large social scene through seeing bands/going to concerts, etc.

5. Family links - (UK) relatives and close family friends around, sense of family history.

6. Health - (UK) Free dentist care uptil age of 16 (including dentist work like needing braces, etc). Free Healthcare uptil 16 or longer if student. In Oz dentist check-ups free, but if the kids needs braces, etc this will cost a fortune. Again seeing a doctor free but have to pay for prescriptions.

7. Crime - exists in both the UK and Oz. England has a drug problem, WA has drug problems as well, recently mentioned on the news the drug 'Ice' is a problem here. Attempted child kidnappings in the UK. In the last 2 weeks there have been 3 attempted child kidnappings in WA, 2 in the Northern Suburbs, 1 in Mt Lawley.

This by no way is a comprehensive list, just what we have found by being here. Also a main factor is if the parents are happy and provide a loving environment for the kids the kids will surely benefit, irrelevant of where they live. However, I remember one of our reasons for moving to Oz was a better life for all of us, especially the kids, but now I don't think this is true. Did anyone else think this would be the case as well? Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter.

I think really it doesnt matter where kids are they adapt a lot better than us ,the kids look happier here because they have a tan which i believe is unhealthy anyway these days so thats not really a plus point also a lot of kids where ever they are seem to be in volved in structured clubs focussing on sports etc ,the days have gone here and the uk where we used to let our kids out to play football and cricket in the streets and we have ended up with a whole generation that needs outside influences to satisfy them ,i believe most kids today are self serving and exremly selfish and are only truly happy when they get some materialistic claptrap given to them on asaturday afternoon ,so in short if it is anybodies intention to move to the uk to be by their extended family ie uncles,aunts .grandma,grandpa,nieces,and nephews this will be a far more enriching environment than trying to satisfy our children whims with rubbish .PS when are you flying home ? i look like im going end of april

Hi sassenash, I agree, I remember when I was a kid we were outside playing all day, could entertain ourselves, didn't see our parents until the evening when it was time for dinner. Nowadays, through the environment we live in it's not possible to give our kids the free reign we had. Mind you saying that I did see more kids in the UK playing in the streets than I have out here. But the weather can factor that, it's too hot sometimes to do anything than sit by a pool! We thought moving to Oz would give us a greater outdoor lifestyle, but again we haven't found this. It's endless rounds of BBQs & Beach whereas at home there was a greater choice of places to take children offering different insights, e.e natural history museum, Windsor castle, changing of the guard, walks/bike rides in Windsor Great Park without suffocating from heat or worried about being bitten by something!, etc. I think the bond with family members - aunts, grandparents, etc is very special and didn't realise how my children as young as they are, relished this. Their grandparents used to sit down and make things with them, take them to feed the ducks, games played with them, took them to pantomimes at Xmas, stuff they still talk of now. Whilst in the UK I didn't realise the importance of their influence on them, or appreciate the babysitting service they offered us so as we could go out as a couple.........can't put a price on that!! We were a bit sucked into life would be better syndrome - bigger house with pool, little or no mortgage. Whereas now give me a semi in Windsor with Mortgage than a big house/pool no mortgage out here any day! Quality of life not Quantity of possessions is what matters. Speaking of which just sold the car today which was a big relief, as it's part paying for our container home. Sorry gone on a bit haven't I!! Anyway we fly back 12th April, chance-to-be is on the same flight!! I guess you'll be joining us shortly!

yes as i say end of april for me ,and after a moment of weakness for a few days wondering wether it was the right thing im back on track again now ,it would be good to keep intouch and remind each other of the reasons we left aussie .I would agree the kids to play out in the streets more in the uk ,i nothiced that last year .I dare say the flight will be good with chance on there too a fair amount of chatter will going on and im sure when you get off at heathrow it will be a huge relief realising you will be home ,i always liked landing at heathrow and the view of windsor castle and all the houses it always felt like i was amongst the living again ,good luck to you in the future and never have regrets .

Hi
I hear this a lot on the Aus forum and I don't know what people mean by it, or how they have come to the conclusion. I'm not dismissing the concept as it is something I very much want to believe in, but I also have asked a lot of people how they have come to the conclusion that Oz will offer a better life, or more opportunities for the children, and I find it difficult to buy-in to some of the reasons (although I do acknowledge we are all different).

My own personal opinion is that Oz would offer a 'different' life for the children, but I am unable to say whether it would be better. Surely they would lose and gain in different areas of life .

At the moment, my husband is pushing for us to go back to Oz and whilst I feel pretty indifferent about where I live, I am searching for that definitive reason for going back to Oz - I have really tried to focus on the idea that it would be better for the children, but I just don't know.

yes we will stay in touch, I agree with Chance it'll be good to have a reunion and see how we are all getting on when we get back. You are lucky you aren't on the same flight as us, no one would get any sleep with all the chattering!! As soon as we are back in the UK for a few weeks I'll post and let you know how we've got on. I was laughing with Chance the other day as we were saying when we land at Heathrow we'll be on our knees kissing the tarmac!! I think it's only natural having those conflicting thoughts in your head as to whether to go or stay whilst here, we've been the same. Must be even harder for you as you've been here 15 yrs so have integrated more. Once back in the UK, hopefully those thoughts will go and we can all have a chance of just getting on with life. We Feel like our life has been pretty much on hold the last 4 yrs whilst doing the emigration process/selling house/ then emigrating, etc. Thats why your original post a while ago really helped put my mind at rest, and helped in deciding it was the right thing to return. Everyday here feels a bit like groundhog day and I think it was really doing my head in trying to convince myself to stay. No regrets hey, all adds to life's experiences and we have had some really good times out here but not enough to warrant us staying.

Hi HiddenPaw, I don't know where the concept came from, whilst in the UK we thought it would be better in Oz for the kids by;

1. Outdoor lifestyle (better weather to do more outside) as I've already said in the post we found we did more outside in the UK. Come rain or shine we went out in the UK.

2. Less crime / drug problem than in the UK, this was naive on our part. I agree there is probably more crime in the UK but then again there is more people living there.

3. Larger house with pool so kids have more room for play/entertain friends. We were excited about this idea as well.

4. Beach lifestyle for the kids rather than being indoors on computer games. My children aren't old enough for the latter, and there is only so many times you can keep going to the beach.

5. As for family and friends, we like to think of ourselves as self-sufficient family and thought, we'd be ok, we have the web cam / phone and they can come and see us on holiday. The reality is you don't realise how much you will miss them. And now rather than spending our money on holidays in Oz or Asia we'd be saving our hard earned cash to holiday in the UK to catch up with everyone, not what was planned!!

We didn't take into account the impact on say Education for example, I knew England was more advance but didn't realise by just how much. My daughter is at Pre Primary which is basically like a play group. The school she will be going into in the UK 1st year Primary, she'll be learning English, Maths, History, Geography, etc. And at the age she is she enjoys doing these subjects, she was touching on them at her nursery (pre-school) in the UK before she left. She knew about the world/continents, religions, numbers, letters, etc. The only thing she has learnt from her schooling here is songs and prays!

We were just getting a bit fed up of everyone out here (Oz) telling us that we are mad/selfish taking the kids back to the UK as it's better out here. Thats why I posted this thread as as of yet no one has given us a good enough reason why it is.

This is a pretty fair comparison. After 12 years (!) we returned to the UK for various reasons including:

- we wanted to give our children a higher quality education (both secondary+uni). We were apalled by the mediocrity of the education system in Oz.

- better job prospects and, perhaps most importantly,

- to avoid the stifling parochialism of Oz and show them that there is a great big world out there.

12 years, yikes!! Was it hard getting back into the UK way of life? Or did you slot back in again pretty easily? Your last quote 'to avoid the stifling parochialism of Oz and show them that there is a great big world out there' I TOTALLY agree, it feels very isolated here and just can't belive that my husband's degree was totally overlooked as they are more impressed with WA qualifications. They seem to want to stick with what they know and aren't prepared to look at the bigger picture............there's a whole world out there........aside from Australia!!

Thanks ozwells im glad i helped to a certain degree in your decision ,realising that somtimes time will not help is the greatest thing to realise .To say i have intergrated would be a debatable one as of course i deal with aussieson a day to day basis ,but i do not have one single friend who is aussie they are either kiwis,english or scottish its just the way it has been for me ,i have found in a social gathering i have been invited to ie babrbecues where there are a majority aussies the conversaation always tends to be about money and investments and how fantastic they are doing well i dont mind talking this stuff and its good to positive about the economic climate but i just find it shallow and i would rather stand at the bar with people who share in general a sarcastic sense of humour and take the mickey about each other with out getting upset .I didnt realise the migration process took so long these days ,when we applied it took us about six months which felt long enough ,i dont think i could stand the anticipation for four years but you must have really wanted it its funny how the dream dissapates once you start living it

Yes you can't beat the good old English sense of humour!! Bring it on!! The migration process normally takes 6 mths - 1 year. The reason why our migration process took so long was that I got pregnant not long after applying so when they told us to go for medicals, I had to wait until I had the baby (didn't want to risk X-rays) which delayed it by another 10 mths. It then took us 1.5 yrs to sell our house!! We had 3 seperate buyers who pulled out at the last minute, so that was an emotional rollercoaster. With the last buyer we didn't get excited until we exchange contracts and then it was a mad rush booking containers, etc!! Thats why it was hard making the decison to return as we put so much time and effort into getting out here. But c'est la vie!!

We slotted straight back; no doubt having a shared (Brit) sense of humour helped. And we love it back here.

You're right about Oz and their view of home-grown degrees.

Even though the best Oz university isn't exactly of stellar quality, by international standards, a degree from the University of Wollomoolollolllomoolwoopwoop seems to count for a lot in Oz. Not so if you're outside Oz, which is ironic given that Oz is obsessed with being "world class".

1.5 years to sell your house thats a nightmare ,i must admit i do like the way the west australians sell houses with the offer and acceptance system its brilliant ,we sold our house in about a week with settlement 21 days after finance approval thats one thing the brits could certainly learn from as it save a lot of heartache .

Totally agree, 2 of our drop-our buyers, even had the survey done which came back fine and then changed their minds. Shouldn't be allowed really. In Scotland I think they have laws whereby an offer and acceptance is final, how it should be really. We had a SOLD board go up and down so frequently that when it was finally SOLD we wouldn't allow them to put a board up incase it jinxed the sale! Good for you selling so quickly, it's something I wouldn't want to go through again, thank god we only rented and didn't buy out here!

Good for you!! I think it'll be the same for us, can't wait to have a shopping trip in London, best city in the world!! This bit just cracked me up ''a degree from the University of Wollomoolollolllomoolwoopwoop seems to count for a lot in Oz. Not so if you're outside Oz, which is ironic given that Oz is obsessed with being "world class". Exactly, well said!!!