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What would you do in the event of a family death?

What would you do in the event of a family death?

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Old Mar 30th 2005, 9:34 pm
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Question What would you do in the event of a family death?

Hi Everyone +Sorry for the depressing title but,

I would like to know for those that have already emmigrated and left most of their wider family in the u.k. -what people have in put in place in terms of family crisis or death?

I am in the process of the tra,I'm married with 3 children.
We hope to move out to Perth sometime next year,we will have no other family in oz,everyone will still be in the u.k.
We have already decided to open an account in joint names with my mother-in-law,who is trustworthy, and keep that in the u.k.with enough money for 2-3 flights just in case,for any reason required,she needs to book a flight and come.It will be reserved for emergencies.

That's the easy part to discuss and setup.

God Forbid this next scenario,

What would happen to our kids if say we were in a car crash and only the children survived.
Shocking Thought isn't it but nevertheless,I cannot go through life assuming that my family are immune to tragedy.
What would be a worse tragedy would be if they had to be looked after by the normal routes of national care in the circumstances of having no other relatives there.
We will be discussing this with my wider family and draw up a will with the help of soliciters in the very unlikely but still possibility of a scenario where the children are alone(it upsets me just thinking of such a dreadful thing but these things need attention).

I would like feedback on this sensitive subject of what others have done,put in place,opinions etc.......
What have people put in place for their children?

Lynn
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Old Mar 30th 2005, 9:38 pm
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by lynnbrooks
Hi Everyone +Sorry for the depressing title but,

I would like to know for those that have already emmigrated and left most of their wider family in the u.k. -what people have in put in place in terms of family crisis or death?

I am in the process of the tra,I'm married with 3 children.
We hope to move out to Perth sometime next year,we will have no other family in oz,everyone will still be in the u.k.
We have already decided to open an account in joint names with my mother-in-law,who is trustworthy, and keep that in the u.k.with enough money for 2-3 flights just in case,for any reason required,she needs to book a flight and come.It will be reserved for emergencies.

That's the easy part to discuss and setup.

God Forbid this next scenario,

What would happen to our kids if say we were in a car crash and only the children survived.
Shocking Thought isn't it but nevertheless,I cannot go through life assuming that my family are immune to tragedy.
What would be a worse tragedy would be if they had to be looked after by the normal routes of national care in the circumstances of having no other relatives there.
We will be discussing this with my wider family and draw up a will with the help of soliciters in the very unlikely but still possibility of a scenario where the children are alone(it upsets me just thinking of such a dreadful thing but these things need attention).

I would like feedback on this sensitive subject of what others have done,put in place,opinions etc.......
What have people put in place for their children?

Lynn
Gosh, hadn't thought about this!!

Terrible thought, but who would take them initially, I am sure by hook or crook someone you loved would come get them.

wonder if australian law affects what you can do??

Chris
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Old Mar 30th 2005, 9:42 pm
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Good question and one that keeps coming back to hit me in the middle of the night

Our girls are 12 and 10 and have dual nationality - not that that matters, but I think I would expect my sister to go to Aus and bring the kids back (don't know about our bodies - can't think that one through), but have no idea what would happen to them if say we died within a few months of getting there, cos obviously they would know no one, and no one would know them to look after them - assume the "authorities" would sort something out.

I think I will go and bury my head back in the sand. Can't think about this at 11.30.

Sorry, absolutely no help to you.
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Old Mar 30th 2005, 9:47 pm
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by lynnbrooks
Hi Everyone +Sorry for the depressing title but,

I would like to know for those that have already emmigrated and left most of their wider family in the u.k. -what people have in put in place in terms of family crisis or death?

I am in the process of the tra,I'm married with 3 children.
We hope to move out to Perth sometime next year,we will have no other family in oz,everyone will still be in the u.k.
We have already decided to open an account in joint names with my mother-in-law,who is trustworthy, and keep that in the u.k.with enough money for 2-3 flights just in case,for any reason required,she needs to book a flight and come.It will be reserved for emergencies.

That's the easy part to discuss and setup.

God Forbid this next scenario,

What would happen to our kids if say we were in a car crash and only the children survived.
Shocking Thought isn't it but nevertheless,I cannot go through life assuming that my family are immune to tragedy.
What would be a worse tragedy would be if they had to be looked after by the normal routes of national care in the circumstances of having no other relatives there.
We will be discussing this with my wider family and draw up a will with the help of soliciters in the very unlikely but still possibility of a scenario where the children are alone(it upsets me just thinking of such a dreadful thing but these things need attention).

I would like feedback on this sensitive subject of what others have done,put in place,opinions etc.......
What have people put in place for their children?

Lynn
Lynn, the only advice I can think of is to find someone you love and trust in the UK to bring up your children.

I think in these circumstances it would be better for them to be cared for in the UK by someone that they know than to be cared for by strangers in Australia.

Organise it now, sort it now and lets hope your family will never be in that situation.

Well done to you for thinking about this. It's not an easy subject to talk about at any time.

But if I had kids, that is what I would do.

Sam
 
Old Mar 30th 2005, 10:21 pm
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by lynnbrooks
Hi Everyone +Sorry for the depressing title but,

I would like to know for those that have already emmigrated and left most of their wider family in the u.k. -what people have in put in place in terms of family crisis or death?

I am in the process of the tra,I'm married with 3 children.
We hope to move out to Perth sometime next year,we will have no other family in oz,everyone will still be in the u.k.
We have already decided to open an account in joint names with my mother-in-law,who is trustworthy, and keep that in the u.k.with enough money for 2-3 flights just in case,for any reason required,she needs to book a flight and come.It will be reserved for emergencies.

That's the easy part to discuss and setup.

God Forbid this next scenario,

What would happen to our kids if say we were in a car crash and only the children survived.
Shocking Thought isn't it but nevertheless,I cannot go through life assuming that my family are immune to tragedy.
What would be a worse tragedy would be if they had to be looked after by the normal routes of national care in the circumstances of having no other relatives there.
We will be discussing this with my wider family and draw up a will with the help of soliciters in the very unlikely but still possibility of a scenario where the children are alone(it upsets me just thinking of such a dreadful thing but these things need attention).

I would like feedback on this sensitive subject of what others have done,put in place,opinions etc.......
What have people put in place for their children?

Lynn
Hi Lynne, this is something that concerned us too, and something that should be thought about by other people in the same position (no family in Australia)
We bought a "will kit" (available from most post offices over here for about $25) We leave ours in a fairly prominent cupboard drawer, where hopefully it would be found quite easily in the event (god forbid..) of anything happening. In this you can state the benefactors of your will (so that your assets are immediately freed-up and available to the executors of your choice), but also include contact details of your chosen guardians for your children (even if these are in the U.K) Untill these people arrive here I believe, the children would be looked after by the authorities, who I'm sure would have the children's best interests at heart. We chose to do it this way a) because it was the cheaper option! But b) because I believe the will would be found and made available quicker if it is on the premises rather than held in a solicitors office either here or in the U.K.
These will kits are perfectly legal documents and are legally binding, you just need to have 2 witnesses.
I hope none of us ever needs to use them!
kath n kim
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Old Mar 30th 2005, 11:54 pm
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by lynnbrooks
Hi Everyone +Sorry for the depressing title but,

I would like to know for those that have already emmigrated and left most of their wider family in the u.k. -what people have in put in place in terms of family crisis or death?

I am in the process of the tra,I'm married with 3 children.
We hope to move out to Perth sometime next year,we will have no other family in oz,everyone will still be in the u.k.
We have already decided to open an account in joint names with my mother-in-law,who is trustworthy, and keep that in the u.k.with enough money for 2-3 flights just in case,for any reason required,she needs to book a flight and come.It will be reserved for emergencies.

That's the easy part to discuss and setup.

God Forbid this next scenario,

What would happen to our kids if say we were in a car crash and only the children survived.
Shocking Thought isn't it but nevertheless,I cannot go through life assuming that my family are immune to tragedy.
What would be a worse tragedy would be if they had to be looked after by the normal routes of national care in the circumstances of having no other relatives there.
We will be discussing this with my wider family and draw up a will with the help of soliciters in the very unlikely but still possibility of a scenario where the children are alone(it upsets me just thinking of such a dreadful thing but these things need attention).

I would like feedback on this sensitive subject of what others have done,put in place,opinions etc.......
What have people put in place for their children?

Lynn

Thoughts, in no particular order, on how to manage this risk:

1. One way to manage the risk of both parents being killed simultaneously (which is very low to begin with ... ) is not to travel together if at all possible. I'm being serious here, policies like this are followed by top corporate executives, politicians etc. The President and Vice President of the US never travel together.

2. You should specify in writing who you would like to look after your kids in the worst case scenario. Also specify in writing if you would like the children to remain in Australia.

3. If the likely solution was for a caregiver to migrate from the UK to Australia (to look after the children) there is no specific visa for circumstances like these, but it may be possible to get a visa for such person through the Minister's discretion for exceptional cases (s351 of the Migration Act). It helps if the children are Australian citizens.
Discuss all of this with your chosen caregiver in advance.

4. Take Australian citizenship asap, that way if the kids did ever have to return to the UK they would not risk losing their PR.

5. Note that if this ever happens in reverse, and a child relative of yours in the UK is left without parents, there is an orphan unmarried relative visa in the Australian system. Professional assistance required.

6. Make sure you have enough life insurance. Don't waste money on whole of life coverage - the kids won't need life cover on you when they are grown up - make sure you have plenty of term life cover.

7. Set your wills up in such a way that they anticipate simulataneous death and appoint responsible trustees to look after the assets (incl life insurance proceeds) for the children.

8. Review the arrangements regularly - arrangements you set up for children now may not be suitable when they become teenagers.

9. Sponsor relatives to come and live in Australia.

Jeremy
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 12:33 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Hello,

We have a will that specifies the guardians for the children and back-up guardians if the first choice are unable to do so. As these guardians are in the UK we expect that the children will return to the UK. We have arranged for a friend to look after the children here until the guardians can take over.

If you do not specify what you want to happen then the children will become "Wards of Court" and the court will decide what happens to them.

Note that if your children’s inheritance moves to the UK (with the children) within 3 complete tax years of your arrival then it is subject to Inheritance Tax (assuming it is more than the threshold).

Regards
Alistair
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 12:36 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by kirsty&al
Note that if your children’s inheritance moves to the UK (with the children) within 3 complete tax years of your arrival then it is subject to Inheritance Tax (assuming it is more than the threshold).

Regards
Alistair
If probate has been done in Australia, and the assets are in Australia, it's hard to see how UK Inheritance Tax can come into the equation. Where did you hear this?


Jeremy
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 12:42 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by JAJ
Thoughts, in no particular order, on how to manage this risk:

1. One way to manage the risk of both parents being killed simultaneously (which is very low to begin with ... ) is not to travel together if at all possible. I'm being serious here, policies like this are followed by top corporate executives, politicians etc. The President and Vice President of the US never travel together.

2. You should specify in writing who you would like to look after your kids in the worst case scenario. Also specify in writing if you would like the children to remain in Australia.

3. If the likely solution was for a caregiver to migrate from the UK to Australia (to look after the children) there is no specific visa for circumstances like these, but it may be possible to get a visa for such person through the Minister's discretion for exceptional cases (s351 of the Migration Act). It helps if the children are Australian citizens.
Discuss all of this with your chosen caregiver in advance.

4. Take Australian citizenship asap, that way if the kids did ever have to return to the UK they would not risk losing their PR.

5. Note that if this ever happens in reverse, and a child relative of yours in the UK is left without parents, there is an orphan unmarried relative visa in the Australian system. Professional assistance required.

6. Make sure you have enough life insurance. Don't waste money on whole of life coverage - the kids won't need life cover on you when they are grown up - make sure you have plenty of term life cover.

7. Set your wills up in such a way that they anticipate simulataneous death and appoint responsible trustees to look after the assets (incl life insurance proceeds) for the children.

8. Review the arrangements regularly - arrangements you set up for children now may not be suitable when they become teenagers.

9. Sponsor relatives to come and live in Australia.

Jeremy
That's a damn fine piece of advice young Jeremy.

We addressed this in the UK and have discussed it here but have not got round to drawing up the legal papers yet. I will print this off and make sure we get it sorted in the next week. I believe my ever so organised husband has sorted the money side out and I know we have an excellent life insurance, but I want to make sure that Imogen would be emotionally cared for. We are very lucky over here as we have 26 members of family here and one on the way.

Well done to the poster who raised this subject, it's VERY important and cannot be ignored.

You see sometimes this site is good for something other than organising coffee mornings

Jill
 
Old Mar 31st 2005, 2:10 am
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Red face Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by JAJ
2. You should specify in writing who you would like to look after your kids in the worst case scenario. Also specify in writing if you would like the children to remain in Australia.

Jeremy
Whilst I agree with all of your other points, Jeremy, I feel that I must add an addendum to your second point:

You should appoint guardians and/or trustees in your will for any minors (dependent children aged under 18 years). No amount of leaving other written specifications (letters, etc.) will overrule your 'last will and testament', at least not without a possible lengthy court process. I'm sure that's what Jeremy meant, but I just wanted to clarify it.

Also, stating in your will whether or not you would like your children to stay in Australia does not necessarily mean that they will (even if they can). Once a guardian is appointed, that guardian has total control over the children's whereabouts (within the law). Whilst a court might look favourably upon the *desires/wishes* stated in your will in this regard, it will also take into account possible changes in circumstances, etc., since this wish was made. In most circumstances, these whises can legally be overruled by the appointed guardian without any application to courts or other authorities if the guardian so chooses.

In a will, you can only specify things which are 'controllable' at the time of your death, not anything ongoing. So, in the circumstances to which we refer: you can appoint a guardian; you can 'request' that they remain in Australia or return to UK; but you cannot force the latter issue. Obviously, you will not be around to do so.

I'm not trying to split hairs here, just wanted to clarify your valid point which could have been misleading.

***

On a more positive note, and in an attempt to answer part of the original question, in the event of your death, and assuming that you have appointed a UK resident guardian in your will, the children will be placed in foster care (usually a very loving, caring family with other kids) until either (a) your guardian arrives to take over, or (b) your guardian makes arrangements to fly the kids back to UK. Either way, the kids should only be with 'strangers' for a very short period of time, provided that your guardian does his/her job well.

I'd highly recommend talking this type of scenario over with your chosen guardian/s and making your wishes known to them. Also, as seems to have been done by the original poster, make financial provision for the guardian to act swiftly in this case (e.g. immediate access to funds for travel, etc.)

I think that, when it comes to kids, you'd find that your fellow Australians (neighbours, new friends, colleagues, etc.) would be very kind and supportive, and would go out of their way to help in any way they could. I certainly would!


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Old Mar 31st 2005, 2:54 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Originally Posted by JAJ
If probate has been done in Australia, and the assets are in Australia, it's hard to see how UK Inheritance Tax can come into the equation. Where did you hear this?


Jeremy
It's in http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/leaflets/iht18.pdf

The relevant stuff is:
For inheritance tax purposes, there is a concept of ‘deemed
domicile’. This means even if you are not domiciled in the UK under
general law we will treat you as domiciled in the UK at the time of
a transfer if
• you were domiciled in the UK within the three years immediately
before the transfer, or
• you were ‘resident’ in the UK in at least 17 of the 20 income
tax years of assessment ending with the year in which you make
a transfer.
As I said this can become a problem if the inheritance moves back to the UK. If it stays in Oz, I can't see any practical reason why they should be able to get their hands on it. Note that when they talk about years, they mean tax years so if someone leaves just after April 6th then this period of "deemed domicile" becomes nearly 4 years. The leaflet is a little confusing (as always) but it looks like they can't touch money in an Oz account, but they can touch other assets (e.g. house).

Regards
Alistair
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 7:10 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Thanx everyone for your excellent contributions to this question.
JaJ,thanx for those initial tips to get me started.

I want to ask if anyone knows that if I set up a will with all of this in mind,in the u.k....before we emmigrate having members staying in the u.k.being the guardians..and it was all done by soliciters etc......
...will that document be recognised by Australian Law or would they look at it and somehow find it more difficult because it was done in the u.k.?

I don't know how different uk + oz laws are,but I don't want to complicate things by setting up something involving english law and taking it over where the law may be totally different.......

Lynn
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 7:23 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

We had a will drawn up in the UK on the advice that if something happened to us in the interim between selling the house and arriving in Oz, we would be covered - about a 3 week period. I am sure we were also advised that once we got to Oz it would no longer be valid. Now, having read these threads I'm not sure. It was a simple will - only myself and partner, no kids. Can anyone help clarify if it is still a legal document here. Obviously the will is still with our solicitor.
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Old Mar 31st 2005, 8:07 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?


I've recently answered a couple of questions regarding wills and intestacy (dying without a will).

If you're interested in what I had to say, see http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286450 and/or http://www.britishexpats.com/forum/s...d.php?t=293303 for more info on UK->Aus will issues.


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Old Mar 31st 2005, 8:19 am
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Default Re: What would you do in the event of a family death?

Didn't even think of this - well done and thanks - Karma comming your way !


Cheers


Jon
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