Water Issues
 

We live in Brisbane and as most of you are I'm sure are aware, moved to Level Five restrictions yesterday.

My major concern is that the state government doesn't seem to be tackling the water issue with any real urgency, but just keeps asking everybody to use less.

I could just be being thick, but with the Wivenhoe Dam at only 15% it's enevitable that water is eventually going to run out.

What are then general thoughts on this and have any of the newly to arrive migrants considered this major issue?

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And I thought checking if the property had town water was the issue... and now town water is going to run out ?

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well I have just bucketed my washing machine water round the garden but agree we should be doing something.Can we divert the river?

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Yes I'm so glad we got our water tank, the way things are going I'm going to have to get a guard dog to stop people getting my water :)

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Got to say that I've been amazed by the attitude that a lot of people have to the water shortage. For example in the area where I live in Sydney you are only allowed to water your garden on Tuesdays and Thursdays. However most of my neighbours seem to take this to mean that you 'have to' water your garden on Tuesdays and Thursdays.:confused: They are out there watering the grass even if there has been rain a few days previously:mad: How can people justify regularily pouring gallons of clean drinking water onto their lawn when there is a real risk that the water might run out:confused: Surely a green lawn should not be important when many of the major dams are heading towards being empty?

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What do you think the state government should do to tackle the problem?

:)

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Here it's Wednesday and Sunday... and some idiot behind us waters his garden every other day regardless...:frown:

Though it does beat me slightly how somewhere with a much higher rainfall than London has a water shortage... :confused:

No doubt there's a perfectly logical answer... :)

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Obviously more rain would help:lol:

However I think in the case of both London and Sydney one of the main problems is lack of investment and a huge increase in population.

In Sydney from what I can see the last major investment in water storage was in the 1970's. Since then the population must have increased hugely also due to changes in lifestyle the amount of water we each use has increased. It shouldn't therefore be a huge surprise that a system designed to cope with a smaller population consuming less should be struggling to cope with a larger population consuming more.

This is also true for London and probably the majority of other Australian cities suffering shortages. I would imagine that the population growth in south east Queensland over the last 20 years or so must have been huge.

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Yep, thats why we are at 15% :thumbdown:
I think wivenhoe was the last dam build back in the 70's

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why don't you report him?? I have done this lots of time, I am outraged that people think they are safe because we live in sydney and it looks lush. These people (the ones who dont have water tanks or use grey water) have probably not ventured beyond Sydney recently so are unaware of the devastation that a drought can cause. I also cannot for the life of me understand why people think its ok to water the flippin grass when about 4 hours drive away they are struggling to water livestock!!!!

I am a bit of a water nerd, and if people waste it I report them.

*stepping off the soap box*

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Down here the Hinze Dam is at 75% so I don't understand why we have to suffer with water restrictions when it's you lot up in Brisbane using it.

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Here here. We are on level 4 on the central coast. I have 5000 litre storage and use it for my washing machine and toilets and I have worked out that my next bill will be about 50 bucks it was 160 last time. We fill our pool from the bore if we need to which we have done 3 times this summer. But it makes me mad when you see someone with a sprinkler on and its bloody raining arrrgghh, I know its bore water but come on, even that wont last cause there gonna have to nick it soon.

Jo

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I know it's low on the priority list but how do folks fill up their pools if they're not on bore when there's a water restriction? It will knacker the pump up if the waters not at the right level.

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You can still fill the pool.

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What, when people can't water their cattle? :blink:

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1. Encourage people to reuse, recycle and save water by increasing grants for water tanks, grey water systems, dual flush converters etc.
2. Incentivise businesses to use water more efficiently
3. Insist that all new homes and bathroom / kitchen renovations install water efficient devices
4. Actually carry out enforcement measures / fines (and maybe publish offenders details in the local papers to shame them?)
5. Lead by example, and install water efficient devices and encourage water saving and reuse in government buildings, schools, hospitals, social housing etc.
6. And the biggie - increase water prices (eg staggered pricing systems so heavy water users pay more).

Along with the Federal government, the state governments should be working together to tackle the issue on a national basis so that areas with water shortages get the water they need, and areas with plenty of water don't get penalised.

I'm in favour of introducing water recyling nationally, improving the storm water drain systems, building dams in areas where the rain falls, but all this will cost money and will Australian taxpayers be prepared to pay extra taxes to pay for all new infrastructure and remedial work on current systems?

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Only by buying it in in tankers using water from areas that aren't under level 5 restrictions. You can top it up as a last resort using town water if you have a water tank and three of the other water saving measures. That's in Brisbane, anyways.

Jane :)

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Yep. but from July you have to have 3 water saving devices before you can top up the pool.
But you can't fill new pools under level 5.

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Agree with all of that other than point 6. The problem with this is it allows rich people to carry on indiscriminately watering their lawn etc whilst at the same time making poor people worry whether they can afford to flush their toilet.

I think the key as you pointed out is more efficient water use and retention and yes if necessary costs should rise to pay for improvements. I still find it remarkable that new build housing doesn't have a requirement to store rainwater and have grey water recycling. A new house is being built just up from us with no rainwater storage at all:mad:

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The press seem to have forgotton that it was Kevin Rudd who blocked the building of water infrastructure all those years ago. Thankfully, the local people haven't, at least not round here.

Jane :)

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Back when the Gold Coast was in drought, a pipeline was built from Wivenhoe so that the Gold Coast had water. Wouldn't you have thought they would have had the foresight to make it 2 way? Apparantly we're still sending water down your way because of contractual obligations from back then!

Jane :)

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This has been stated why several people my oh works with, don't have a water tank. Water is so cheap (maybe tanks too expensive), that even with rebate for installing a water tank, it is still so much more than the cost saving of metered water saved.

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Have a sliding scale. The amount of water you need to wash and drink is cheap, then if you go over that amount you pay though the nose for the rest.

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We had to have a water tank fitted as part of our planning approval. We were having one anyways (7000 gallon and its only half full :( ) but it looks like its down to individual councils.

Jane :)

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You could build 100's of dams if there's insufficient rain to fill the ones we have the new ones would just be just as empty.
Beattie & the Qld govt. have been relying on rain for too long. Dams are not a solution, desalination and educating the population in water conservation are far better long term solutions. Plugging leaks and replacing aging pipes should be ongoing.
Mandatory installation of water tanks and water saving devices in all new homes should be brought in immediately. Water tanks should be a must for anyone with a pool. Recycling waste water should be introduced and prioritized not talked about and dismissed as potentially vote losing.

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Like themerlin says, staggered / sliding scales would ensure that people have enough water for everyday essential use, but non-essential usuage (watering gardens, filling pools etc) would cost more. It would certainly make people more careful and not to waste water like they currently do. While they can still turn the tap on and get continuous fresh drinking water out of every outlet, some people will do that without a care about droughts and the hardships others are facing.

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Thats right its pointless building dams if theres no rain? I was up in Gympie over easter so went for a drive to Borumba and then back through where the Traveston dam is being built and that site looks like a huge white elephant waiting to happen. :eek:

Everyone seems to scared to mention recycled water (especially with an election on the horizon) when I can see no other option. Beattie has left it to late to even start these projects now with dam water projected to run out sometime next year.

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They are now increasing the height of Hinze Dam. So when it was originally 50% full it will now be 35% full (or something like that). What a good excuse for bringing in more water restrictions, "Hey folks, we have a bigger dam now, you are going on water restrictions to help fill it up" A few months back it was flowing over the top! Tossers.

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Would you base the amount on the no of people in a house or simply an amount per property. Its just that households with young children tend to use more water than some other households down to increased washing/bathing etc?

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Someone could say that rather than have children, they choose to have a large garden so why can't they use the water they don't use on bathing kids on their plants instead? :p

Seriously, maybe there could be a rebate system so that larger families could claim back some of the costs?

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Or maybe they could have excercised more control over the number of kids they had in the first place?

S

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why? Costello is trying to encourage more babies, as they are need to (eventually) work and help fund an increasing aged population

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In Australia, yes, but globally no. Overpopulation without adequate resources is a massive problem. It's hardly responsible to go and have 6 kids when the country is in drought and there isn't enough water to go around the existing populace.

And why should a large family have their water cheaper than a small one? If you use more water, you should pay more for the services you use.

S

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I'd agree and as water is metered this is already the case you pay more as you pay for the no of units you consume. What I am worried about is if there is a threshold that increases the price per unit at a particular volume. If this is only set at a per property level rather than at a number of individuals level then this will penalise people who share properties, ie families.

However this problem could also apply to groups of adults sharing a unit. If 4 or 5 people flat share then they could end up being penalised on the amount of water they use even though they individually use less than a couple living in an adjoining unit.

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We just got a new desalination plant in Perth and generally we don't have the same problems - for now - but with a rapid population growth it is becoming more of an issue. I can't believe they are talking of spending billions on two more desalination plants, using the aquifers (water table) and even building a canal all the way from the Kimberley when waster water is flushed straight out to see. I know it doesn't sound nice drinking recycled water but they say in London that every glass of water has been through 7 people before you. At least reinject it into the aquifers.

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All relevant but subject to:

1. More dam capacity is the answer when rainfall is less frequent and/or more intense.

2. Most water is used by industry and agriculture. Beating up homeowners over domestic use (including pools) may make good politics for some, but doesn't really address the main issue.

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Yes, but as a household they will use more water. Four students sharing a unit will use more water than two people sharing a similar place...

S

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I was listening to the Aussie verion of Desert Island Discs last week, and they had a professor of water use studies from UNSW. He was a big advocate of recycling water. He claimed that much of the resistance to it is based on the terminology. Purified water sound much nicer than recycles water, yet can amount to much the same thing.

Personally I would be more than happy to drink recycled water - Modern reverse osmosis systems work on a molecular level, so the chances of even sigle celled microbes and organisms getting through is virtually non existant.

S

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I drank recycled water all the time back in England, hasn't done me any harm... xfuioueiofklycioeipruuceurwjioj huyoifjceurfij oh dear uiocv8ofieio what's happening to me niocuiouioeiou8o :rofl:

Re: Water Issues
 

Yes I agree with point 1 in theory, however, the last decade should have taught us that having all our eggs in one basket i.e dams is not a viable solution.
The new dam proposed in Traveston [my back yard] by the Beattie govt. is itself a drought declared area. There has been insufficient rainfall to create any run off for 2 yrs yet Anna Bligh is telling the people of Brisbane that if the dam had been completed 2 yrs ago it would be 3/4 full by now. The local councils who at the moment control the water within the area have used exactly the same modeling software as the Qld govt to predict the capacity of the dam over the same period in time finding that to be completely untrue. Their results show the dam would have been at less than 5%. Peter Beatie and his deputy Ms Bligh are not only deliberately misleading the people of Brisbane they are using objection to the proposed dam as a means to diffuse the current crisis i.e "we'd love to give you more water but those bloody ferals up in Gympie object to us building the solution to all our water needs" It's a lie to tell people the Traveston dam will provide the water necessity for Brisbane when the city will run out of water [if the drought continues]well before any project up here could even be completed.

Regarding your second point;
I edited my first post to remove the figures I'd found for water consumption by industry as the website I found them on is no longer functioning. Approximate figures were however that private consumption of the potable supply were only a mere 15% of the actual water supplies the rest a massive 85% were used by industry. That seems to me to be a very high almost inconceivable figure hence my reluctance to post. I'll do some more digging around to see just how accurate the claim is.:huh:

As a footnote, I posted this on another thread, I still find it incredulous He [Peter Beattie]couldn't even send a minister to meet with probably the worlds most renown recycled water expert Professor Uri Shani [head of Israel's Water Authority]recently. With Brisbane & the rest of SE QLD desperately seeking a solution to their impending water crisis I'd have thought he'd be welcoming a visit from a bloke that has triumphed over the recent Israeli one.
Maybe he's pinning his hopes instead on a dam that won't even be holding water by the time Brisbane has run out?
Maybe if the federal govt. declare the Traveston dam unfeasible he'll sit back and tell the residents of Brisbane "I tried but..........."