Kapri

Good post Ruthyman.
i think on this site it's best to just jump in and say what you want.
If someone disagrees with you so what? It's only cyberspace

tracey.d

a wonderfully honest post. Good luck with th ehouse sale. It's a nightmare, I know, but I'm sure it'll sell in the end

Tracey

Clippy

That's a great post I don't envy you that bike ride when you were pregnant though

Best of luck for the future and I hope your house sale goes through smoothly for you

Wol

Best of luck with the sale, and whatever decision you make. You deserve it!

cartel

What a post!

All praise to you. Life is a journey and you appear to be dealing with everything in a very calm and mature way. Your post really touched me and left me feeling quite humble.

If our family can deal with half of what you have been through I would be very proud. I hope you reach your goal (wherever that may be) and please keep posting because we need more people like you.

As another poster said, 'you may have friends on here that you do not know about yet and it would be sad to lose them.

I wish you the very best in everything you do and I for one would love to be your friend!!

Hope to speak soon.

Carol

iPom

Got to agree with this. Great post Ruthyman...and I wish you the best of everything... you really deserve it.
As for people on here being too hard on you... I dunno. There's just an element of familiarity with many of the more regular posters here, simply because we might post a lot at the same time of day and we get to know what each other can tolerate in humour or whatever. It's just the same as meeting people socially, or maybe starting a new job... there's always a group of people who are familiar with each other.
I would hate to think that we don't give time, a sympathetic ear or support to people who don't post a lot... For me that destroys the whole point of us hanging out here now we live in Aus.
There may be silly banter, but if you look at the more serious threads which ask for help, or where people are having a tough time, the support here is amazing.

Don't be afraid to speak up... it was a great post and I greatly enjoyed reading it.

Clippy

Yep I ditto that Ipom

I hope the newbies or those that don't post as often don't feel that they can't join in as that would be a shame. I've got a lot of help and advice from this site and like to think I can give some of that back.

Ruthyman

Wow again, thanks to everyone who's posted back. I've wiped away a few tears today...Will I ever make it back? I'm torn. I was astute enough to send the furniture back as an incentive and I have family at home who cant wait to get to know the kids but I'm starting to turn into a reluctant traveller, perhaps I'm getting old!
Thanks again for a the wonderful support and putting a little bit of life into perspective for me. You all make great sense and I would love to make some cyber friends.
Now if only you could all solve the dreaded question of 'should I really go home'

Womat

Home isn't going anywhere Ruthyman, take the time you need to make the decision.

Ruthyman

I was particularly interested in your comments about having a family. Do you think it's harder for kids in the UK? What about in France?

I'm in Perth and think we may go back to England at some point, but I do worry about how the kids would settle (they have never lived there before). They love it here, and seeing your kids happy is the greatest thing for any parent.[/QUOTE]

Nothing is right or wrong and kids are very very adaptable (given the right support). I count the following as important to our decision (having given up all the good things in life for an apartment with no yard, second hand clothes and furniture and only having the option of the local village school, I've realised they dont necessarily count for anything)
x Extended family
x Culture. Its very different from Oz or France. Either my hubby or I will be in a place where we can identify with the culture and that makes a big difference from neither of us identifying!
x Education - Im all for a more laid back approach to education. In the end they all get to the finish line, whatever the country.

I have plenty of horror stories from the UK about public transport, cost of child care, attitude of people to kids, crime etc.. but thats not really it. UK is a fab place to be in your 20s and I think mine will probably end up back there one day.

I think somehow it boils down to culture. Here in France it gets colder than in London but the kids are expected to get outside and enjoy life snow and all. Kids are expected to be present wherever you go and everyone has kids or wants them. Kids are expected to have manners and behave in cafes and be kind and families matter a lot. It happens in the UK too, its just that it seems to be a bit harder to achieve it. Probably more distraction in the UK? (tv is too good )
I had a fabulous time growing up in Oz and expect it to fall somewhere between France and UK for quality of life (house prices, cost of living, population density) for my own kids.

Ultimately having kids in a place that isnt 'home' to at least one of you is maybe a bit like being pregnant - you just long for the familiar. Does that make sense?

And wherever you are happy your kids will have a better chance, because you will at least have the head and heart space to support them and be interested in them.
Saying that, it might be a bit tough on them to have to give up 360 days of sunshine and beach for the chance to know grandpa!
How old are your kids? Whay do you think you will go back to the UK?

Exile

Thank you Ruthyman for an interesting reply and your extremely well thought and balanced comments on choosing what is best for your kids.

I guess our problems relate to your first two factors: extended family and culture. My wife is Japanese, so Perth for us is a neutral place. After almost three years here, I can't help but think we should really be living in either England or Japan, mainly for those reasons. There are also the logistical problems, and the sheer expense of always having a duty to visit two other countries, instead of just the one.

I have also suffered from a sense of not really feeling like I belong here (shared humour, sense of history, etc), and I have become bored with the mundane suburban life (we lived in Tokyo for five years before coming to Perth). We're moving nearer to the city centre next week, to see if it feels any more vibrant. I think that should be a positive step for us.

My kids are 3, 6, and 8, and they have been really happy here so far, and my wife likes it very much. All that makes for a very tricky decision. I worry about how the kids would adapt to the harder social climate of the UK (actually, my eldest daughter was born there, but we left on her first birthday). Many people have commented to the effect that kids seem to have less opportunity to be happy in England. Obviously it depends a great deal on the parents and the individual situation, but Australia does seem to have a generally less aggressive social climate, and, as you say, the system seems to put less pressure on them.

There are many things here in Perth I really like, and I'm not sure if the negatives are enough to warrant risking the current happiness of my wife and children, when I'm not particularly unhappy. I just have a nagging feeling that this isn't the right place for me. My wife reckons I'd be wanting to come back to Perth within a year of going back to England, and I fear she may be right. Life is good, so why rock the boat?

Thanks again for your words.

Exile

Ashwin1

Honestly great post with own experiance in your real life.

This is your real feeling which come from your heart and drafted a great post.

yes very much realistic

Wish you good luck in future

Ruthyman

Its tough Exile, having to balance your happiness with that of your family. I wish I had the answers. Especially because kids arent designed to turn around and thank you for all your sacrifices. I think the clue here though, is they expect you to make yourself happy/not make them feel guilty. Also you and your wife both deserve to be happy.

I bet your kids look gorgeous. I am of mixed race myself (not so gorgeous tho!) and that makes it harder to feel at home anywhere, even in a multicultural society like
Oz.

Im scared s@@@less of the mundane too-I loved growing up in oz but Im not sure I will enjoy it as an adult who has been absent for so many years. Im sure my kids will love it though. Kids are made for surburbian life, ducking in and out of friends backyards after school, sleepovers and the like.

Looking further ahead though your kids will grow out of suburbia at some point and will also be wanting more stimulation.

My older brother has lived abroad and his experience is that Melbourne is the best place for someone like me. He will not move to suburbia despite having a child now, instead he has bought a place fairly close to the city centre. He took a while to adjust but now couldnt be happier, despite giving up a fairly high flying career. He teases me a LOT about our choice of Queensland and I have to say deep down I am afraid!! We are still hovering. I think if we ever do sell our house we will just let the travel agent make the decision for us!

The thing is its so hard to get these aussie visas, even spouse visas, that you feel so lucky to be able to live in the Country. Hubby says it was so expensive we might as well use it! Me I think Id be as happy in the south of France, with a more even climate and access to Spain and Italy on your door step, not to mention feeling like it would be more affordable to get housing here.
Another brother is in qld, and its almost 40 degrees. He has the advantage of growing kiwi fruit in his backyard but Id settle for the milder weather and grape vines and 3 euro bordeaux.
I guess what Im trying to say in a roundabout way is maybe your solution is to be closer to a big city, wherever you live (even in the UK and Europe life can be mundane). Perhaps Perth is a little isolated-have you tried visiting some other cities in oz?
All the best though, with the current move, and feel free to pm if you want to chat more.

Chapelgirl

I have been reading your posts on the French and Aussie boards. It sounds like you have had quite a tough time over they years, one way or another. I hope your intended move to Oz comes off OK.

My husband and I are looking to move permanently from the UK to the Besancon area in the next year to 18 months. We are both fairly fluent French speakers and are looking forward to getting off this crowded isle and to a place where we can indulge our passions for randonnée and real food, amongst other things. We are hoping to have enough saved so we will not have to find work, as we are realistic about the prospects of that.

We're intending to rent first, maybe in Besac itself, then look for a place with a garden not too far out. By doing that we might be in a better position to spot and avoid the cliquey or snobbish villages etc. or the ones about to have a motorway carved through them! :-)

We have deliberately picked a region of France with not too many British expats as we don't want to live in Little Britain but it is always useful to hear from others who have made a life in a foreign country.

I gather from your posts that you are not that far away from Besancon yourselves.

I suppose that being married to a Frenchman will have made a difference to your experiences - possibly not always for the better, though? But have you enjoyed your time in France? Do you have any tips for the nouveaux arrivés?

(PS - I know this should really be on the French board but I'm not sure how to do that from here!)