Trades vs Professions
Feb 25th 2004, 6:19 pm
#1
I'm lovin' it
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,525
Trades vs Professions
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
Feb 25th 2004, 6:54 pm
#2
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: manchester uk
Posts: 6
completely agree dood.joiner myself.ive found that biulding companies over the last 15 yrs have tried to take all the f£$%ing skill out of the job by splitting joinery up into semi slilled services .
i mean is a window fitter a joiner?the one i worked with used to be a bin man.
is a bedroom fitter a joiner?
what about shop fitters. the answer is no in most cases. generaly these men are good in there own field but ask them to hang a door our set out a hipped porch roof and there nakerd.
i think to stay lean and mean you must move around employers to stay as sharp as you can and stay interested .dosnt do much for the cv but if they want you the tools are in the van.
2000 worth of tools myself, what id give to be a bricky level tape string line bobs your uncle.
i mean is a window fitter a joiner?the one i worked with used to be a bin man.
is a bedroom fitter a joiner?
what about shop fitters. the answer is no in most cases. generaly these men are good in there own field but ask them to hang a door our set out a hipped porch roof and there nakerd.
i think to stay lean and mean you must move around employers to stay as sharp as you can and stay interested .dosnt do much for the cv but if they want you the tools are in the van.
2000 worth of tools myself, what id give to be a bricky level tape string line bobs your uncle.
Feb 25th 2004, 7:02 pm
#3
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Eatons Hill, Brisbane
Posts: 2,289
Re: Trades vs Professions
Here, here says my hubby!
He's a plasterer and agreed with everything you said, been a plasterer since leaving school 21 years ago, worked had at what he's got and what we hope to achieve in Australia
kind regards
rach, mark and chanelle
He's a plasterer and agreed with everything you said, been a plasterer since leaving school 21 years ago, worked had at what he's got and what we hope to achieve in Australia
kind regards
rach, mark and chanelle
Feb 25th 2004, 7:04 pm
#4
Next stop Gold coast
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Somewhere in Midwales
Posts: 625
I know what you mean.......... On paper qualify as an astronaut !
all the best plum.
all the best plum.
Feb 25th 2004, 7:15 pm
#5
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Sittingbourne, Kent
Posts: 123
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
I am a painter and decorator and have been for 16 years and its the same in my trade, because everyone does a bit at home and the telly is full of programmes showing it everyone thinks they can do it.
I often get people telling painting is easy until they have a problem and have to ask my advice, I can hang a door and fit a kitchen but i am no joiner, as you say that comes with years of experience.
I work along side so called designers who get more money than me, but they certanly don't earn it, they have'nt got a clue, it's us tradesman that make there designs work and get the job done.
See what you've done, you've started me off.
Kevin
Feb 25th 2004, 7:18 pm
#6
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Eatons Hill, Brisbane
Posts: 2,289
Re: Trades vs Professions
See what you've done, you've started me off.
Kevin
[/QUOTE]
Started my hubby off too, he's gone into one about pen pushers!!!!!
Kevin
[/QUOTE] Started my hubby off too, he's gone into one about pen pushers!!!!!
Feb 25th 2004, 7:28 pm
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast Queensland
Posts: 242
Its the same sort of thing for us bods in the IT industry, the kiddies fresh out of college/uni with their certs, trying to make a quick buck, its no good without having 10 years of experience down your neck. Doing a job is what makes you more skilled, the longer you do it, the better.
Even the colleges (where I work) would rather employ someone with less qualifications and more experience than someone with it all on paper and no experience.
Phil.
ps big drawback in IT is constantly having to relearn the same job, thats is probably why time in the job = better skill. Not doing the same thing all day helps too.
Even the colleges (where I work) would rather employ someone with less qualifications and more experience than someone with it all on paper and no experience.
Phil.
ps big drawback in IT is constantly having to relearn the same job, thats is probably why time in the job = better skill. Not doing the same thing all day helps too.
Feb 25th 2004, 7:37 pm
#8
Not here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,621
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
There is now "qualification creep" - where jobs that once required a certain entry qualification and provided on-the-job training to round out the worker now increasingly require higher qualifications as a replacement for the on-the-job training that is no longer provided.
Apprenticeships and trade training are no longer provided at their previous levels in Australia (especially by State governments) and there will be much reliance on importing these skills from countries that still provide effective trade training environments (craftsmen).
Feb 26th 2004, 9:18 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time.
For example I got Handymen to:
Re-tyle my bathroom
Fix a blocked toilet
Paint my Lounge
Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well)
For example I got Handymen to:
Re-tyle my bathroom
Fix a blocked toilet
Paint my Lounge
Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well)
Feb 26th 2004, 11:10 am
#10
Next stop Gold coast
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Somewhere in Midwales
Posts: 625
as i said over qualified.......should have been an astronaut!
all the best
plumber/ council of registered gas installers/institute of plumbing engineer/oil fired technician/gas engineer/heating specialist/acredited certified.....pipe strangler !
oh.....stick a broom up my ass and i'll also sweep the floor on the way out!!!!!
all the best
plumber/ council of registered gas installers/institute of plumbing engineer/oil fired technician/gas engineer/heating specialist/acredited certified.....pipe strangler !
oh.....stick a broom up my ass and i'll also sweep the floor on the way out!!!!!
Last edited by plumber; Feb 26th 2004 at 11:16 am.
Feb 26th 2004, 6:08 pm
#11
I'm lovin' it
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,525
Originally posted by Goodpubmisser
I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time.
For example I got Handymen to:
Re-tyle my bathroom
Fix a blocked toilet
Paint my Lounge
Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well)
I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time.
For example I got Handymen to:
Re-tyle my bathroom
Fix a blocked toilet
Paint my Lounge
Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well)
Feb 26th 2004, 7:06 pm
#12
Banned
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Morayfield - The Posh Part
Posts: 10,138
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!'
To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience.
Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused.
Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick.
On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car.
In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so.
Good Post but im ****** bewildered as to your point ?
Stating the obvious is all very well, but its PAPERWORK that counts in the migration game !
And im a carpenter !
Feb 26th 2004, 8:18 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by Timber Floor Au
Good Post but im ****** bewildered
Good Post but im ****** bewildered
nothing new there then.
i agree with all the others on this thread, you can watch a brickie who has been at it for 25 years and see the difference between his work and some muppet who has just finished a 2 year tech course and is out doing cash in hand work.
well said chipmeister.
Feb 26th 2004, 8:49 pm
#14
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Give me a craftsman any day of the week. Stuff the cost - I just want to see perfection in action! (And Mrs DUP is even more picky!) A muppet would be given short shrift in our house.
Keep up the good work, guys!
(And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....)
Keep up the good work, guys!
(And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....)
Feb 26th 2004, 9:09 pm
#15
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by downunderpom
Give me a craftsman any day of the week. Stuff the cost - I just want to see perfection in action! (And Mrs DUP is even more picky!) A muppet would be given short shrift in our house.
Keep up the good work, guys!
(And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....)
Give me a craftsman any day of the week. Stuff the cost - I just want to see perfection in action! (And Mrs DUP is even more picky!) A muppet would be given short shrift in our house.
Keep up the good work, guys!
(And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....)
Paying good money for quality workmanship is worth it as the final result is superior. Housing sticks around much longer than we do and a quality job is bequeathing a legacy to the nation. It is ashame town planners do not think the same.