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Trades vs Professions
There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'.
Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!' To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience. Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused. Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick. On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car. In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so. |
completely agree dood.joiner myself.ive found that biulding companies over the last 15 yrs have tried to take all the f£$%ing skill out of the job by splitting joinery up into semi slilled services .
i mean is a window fitter a joiner?the one i worked with used to be a bin man. is a bedroom fitter a joiner? what about shop fitters. the answer is no in most cases. generaly these men are good in there own field but ask them to hang a door our set out a hipped porch roof and there nakerd. i think to stay lean and mean you must move around employers to stay as sharp as you can and stay interested .dosnt do much for the cv but if they want you the tools are in the van. 2000 worth of tools myself, what id give to be a bricky level tape string line bobs your uncle. |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Here, here says my hubby!
He's a plasterer and agreed with everything you said, been a plasterer since leaving school 21 years ago, worked had at what he's got and what we hope to achieve in Australia kind regards rach, mark and chanelle ;) |
I know what you mean.......... On paper qualify as an astronaut !:rolleyes:
all the best plum. |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'. Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!' To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience. Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused. Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick. On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car. In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so. I am a painter and decorator and have been for 16 years and its the same in my trade, because everyone does a bit at home and the telly is full of programmes showing it everyone thinks they can do it. I often get people telling painting is easy until they have a problem and have to ask my advice, I can hang a door and fit a kitchen but i am no joiner, as you say that comes with years of experience. I work along side so called designers who get more money than me, but they certanly don't earn it, they have'nt got a clue, it's us tradesman that make there designs work and get the job done. See what you've done, you've started me off. Kevin :mad: |
Re: Trades vs Professions
See what you've done, you've started me off.
Kevin :mad: [/QUOTE] Started my hubby off too, he's gone into one about pen pushers!!!!! :mad: |
Its the same sort of thing for us bods in the IT industry, the kiddies fresh out of college/uni with their certs, trying to make a quick buck, its no good without having 10 years of experience down your neck. Doing a job is what makes you more skilled, the longer you do it, the better.
Even the colleges (where I work) would rather employ someone with less qualifications and more experience than someone with it all on paper and no experience. Phil. ps big drawback in IT is constantly having to relearn the same job, thats is probably why time in the job = better skill. Not doing the same thing all day helps too. |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'. Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!' To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience. Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused. Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick. On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car. In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so. There is now "qualification creep" - where jobs that once required a certain entry qualification and provided on-the-job training to round out the worker now increasingly require higher qualifications as a replacement for the on-the-job training that is no longer provided. Apprenticeships and trade training are no longer provided at their previous levels in Australia (especially by State governments) and there will be much reliance on importing these skills from countries that still provide effective trade training environments (craftsmen). |
I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time.
For example I got Handymen to: Re-tyle my bathroom Fix a blocked toilet Paint my Lounge Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well) |
as i said over qualified.......should have been an astronaut!
all the best plumber/ council of registered gas installers/institute of plumbing engineer/oil fired technician/gas engineer/heating specialist/acredited certified.....pipe strangler ! oh.....stick a broom up my ass and i'll also sweep the floor on the way out!!!!! :eek::rolleyes: |
Originally posted by Goodpubmisser I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time. For example I got Handymen to: Re-tyle my bathroom Fix a blocked toilet Paint my Lounge Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well) :cool: :beer: |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by chippy There seems to be a bit of a misconception that 'professional qualifications' are/should be worth more that 'trade qualifications'. Ironically, I would like to dispell the myth that bio-chemist and university lecturers are leaving in drones to become plumbers and the like, 'cos the money is so fantastic!' To become a tradesman you generally have to do a three year apprenticeship. Worthwhile experience comes about 5 years after qualification. To be what I would call a decent tradesman you need about 10 years post qualification experience. Even then, I'm surprised at the amount of muppets there are. Some guys have been in the situation where they have been taught badly, or (more commonly) they have spent nearly all their time working within one aspect of a particular trade. Consequently, although they may be good at what they do know, their knowledge is narrowly focused. Most of the guys that earn 'big money' are working on a price...this means they are paid for what they do. So you need to be able to turn out a good standard of work, and you need to to it quick. On top of that, most of us are self-employed, so you supply your own tools (I've got about £8000 worth) and often power(generator), you don't get holiday pay and you don't take sickies. You sort out you own pension (if you want one), and you pay for your own car. In short tradesmen are in short supply and you can earn excellent money....but will you get this with a crash course and a few months on the job? I don't think so. Good Post but im ****** bewildered as to your point ? Stating the obvious is all very well, but its PAPERWORK that counts in the migration game ! And im a carpenter ! |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by Timber Floor Au Good Post but im ****** bewildered nothing new there then. i agree with all the others on this thread, you can watch a brickie who has been at it for 25 years and see the difference between his work and some muppet who has just finished a 2 year tech course and is out doing cash in hand work. well said chipmeister. |
Give me a craftsman any day of the week. Stuff the cost - I just want to see perfection in action! (And Mrs DUP is even more picky!) A muppet would be given short shrift in our house.
Keep up the good work, guys! (And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....) :D :D |
Originally posted by downunderpom Give me a craftsman any day of the week. Stuff the cost - I just want to see perfection in action! (And Mrs DUP is even more picky!) A muppet would be given short shrift in our house. Keep up the good work, guys! (And if any of you are looking for a project in the Lithgow area of NSW.....) :D :D Paying good money for quality workmanship is worth it as the final result is superior. Housing sticks around much longer than we do and a quality job is bequeathing a legacy to the nation. It is ashame town planners do not think the same. |
Originally posted by bondipom Oi nout wrong with muppets. Paying good money for quality workmanship is worth it as the final result is superior. Housing sticks around much longer than we do and a quality job is bequeathing a legacy to the nation. It is ashame town planners do not think the same. Agree with you about the rest, too. Pay peanuts, get a monkey. Quality comes with a price tag, but in the long run is far cheaper than having to get a bodge job sorted out. |
Originally posted by Goodpubmisser I have actually found that if you get to know who are the good handymen in your local area, they do as good a job as the tradesmen, charge less and are more prone to turn up on time. For example I got Handymen to: Re-tyle my bathroom Fix a blocked toilet Paint my Lounge Fix a leaking shower (he re-tyled the area as well) |
Originally posted by bondipom It is ashame town planners do not think the same. |
Leaky shower situation
Uhm,
Let me bore you with my leaky shower story to illustrate the point. 1. The shower was leaking behind the tap and below the tiles. 2. My Girlfriend called a Plumber with a Gold Licence that she got out of the yellow Pages. 3. This guy came around, looked at the leak and said to fix it when we next got the bathroom retyled. He said that he would have to take tyles off and we would need to get a tyler to put them back on. In the process he asked my girlfriend to pass him a spanner, took hold of her hand and gave it a quick rub. 4. I called another Plumber out of the Yellow Pages. He arrived 1 hour late and I turned him away. 5. I searched around and called a good Handyman who said that he could fix the shower and retyle if needed. 6. Handyman arrives on time, does good job and charges me about a third of what I would have had to pay, i.e Plumber + Tyler. I agree that putting in pipes etc is more complicated, but simple repairs do not really call for much skill. Since then I have tought myself how to put on tyles and paint so I would not have to pay for a tyler in the situation above. |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by WBB :D nothing new there then. i agree with all the others on this thread, you can watch a brickie who has been at it for 25 years and see the difference between his work and some muppet who has just finished a 2 year tech course and is out doing cash in hand work. well said chipmeister. Whats that supposed to mean , ? |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by Timber Floor Au Whats that supposed to mean , ? NOTHING new there then. i AGREE with all the others on THIS thread, you can watch a brickie who has been at it for 25 YEARS and see the difference between his WORK and some MUPPET who has just finished a 2 year tech course and is out doing CASH in hand work. well said chipmeister. :rolleyes: |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by WBB it MEANS, NOTHING new there then. i AGREE with all the others on THIS thread, you can watch a brickie who has been at it for 25 YEARS and see the difference between his WORK and some MUPPET who has just finished a 2 year tech course and is out doing CASH in hand work. well said chipmeister. :rolleyes: TWAT springs to MIND and we CAN all do CAPITALS just do me a fuqn FAVOUR keep outta MY FACE and stop ******* jibin at what posts i place COMFUQNPRENDE PAL ! |
Don't know about the other States, but plumbing in WA is totally different from what I was used to in Scotland.
I was a plumber for 20 years in Scotland, and came to live in Perth WA last May. I got my Plumbers License right away when I got here, but had to do a WA gas course, (which I expected), as well, so I would know all the WA gas reg's n' stuff..... I'm now a self employed plumber, working with my mate who I met on the gas course. He's from England, and came out here about the same time as me. BTW.... Dave, (Abergas), a regular on this forum, was also on the course..... How you going Dave??? Plumbing out here is sooooo.... different from the UK. When you're working on a site with Aussie plumbers, you sometimes feel like you're an apprentice again!! I feel like I'm learning new stuff, but having to unlearn, (if that's a word), lots of the stuff that I've been doing for years!! It's wierd.... But you gradually get used to it. To get back to the original point of the thread...... If I'm finding it strange doing plumbing out here, with 20 years of experience behind me. Where does that leave the "handyman"??? "Jack of all trades, master of none". is, in my experience, the wizest proverb of then all....... I could ramble on for ages about this, but I'd probably bore MYSELF into a coma if I write any more, so I'll just leave it at that!!..... Cheers..... John......... |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by Timber Floor Au TWAT springs to MIND and we CAN all do CAPITALS just do me a fuqn FAVOUR keep outta MY FACE and stop ******* jibin at what posts i place COMFUQNPRENDE PAL ! |
Same here too
I agree with everyones main commnets on here.....
I'd prefer to pay a good price for a good job, not a cheap and chearful price for a cheap job. Jack of all trades.....master of none....agreed!.......just as my dada used to say (qulified joiner by the way, now retired). Anyway.......same goes in my profession (financial systems). My employer thinks they are being smart paying 1/4 the price to employ a 20 year old from India to do a professional job.......you need years of experience (and need to be a qualified accountant in some cases).............same as everyone is saying on here for their trade or profession.... Pay peanuts.......you'll get a job done as if it were done by a monkey........... |
At the end of the day, Chippers, you're still happiest with a bit of block + sandpaper in your hands. :cool: :cool: :cool:
I like that! :beer: :beer: :beer: |
Re: Same here too
Originally posted by Olibeneli I agree with everyones main commnets on here..... I'd prefer to pay a good price for a good job, not a cheap and chearful price for a cheap job. Jack of all trades.....master of none....agreed!.......just as my dada used to say (qulified joiner by the way, now retired). Anyway.......same goes in my profession (financial systems). My employer thinks they are being smart paying 1/4 the price to employ a 20 year old from India to do a professional job.......you need years of experience (and need to be a qualified accountant in some cases).............same as everyone is saying on here for their trade or profession.... Pay peanuts.......you'll get a job done as if it were done by a monkey........... Yes but the fact remains that you can pay a lot to do a Tradesman to do a job and and they do it badly. How many times have you taken your car to a Mechanic (who is a Tradesman) and they have done a bad job? I can do a lot of repairs on cars so I know when a job has been done well or not. I suppose at the end of the day I will be hiring Handymen to be doing simple repair jobs and not paying much, where as you guys will be paying a lot to a Tradesman to do a "good" job. Good luck to you. |
Re: Trades vs Professions
Originally posted by Timber Floor Au TWAT springs to MIND and we CAN all do CAPITALS just do me a fuqn FAVOUR keep outta MY FACE and stop ******* jibin at what posts i place COMFUQNPRENDE PAL ! |
Re: Same here too
Originally posted by Goodpubmisser Yes but the fact remains that you can pay a lot to do a Tradesman to do a job and and they do it badly. How many times have you taken your car to a Mechanic (who is a Tradesman) and they have done a bad job? I can do a lot of repairs on cars so I know when a job has been done well or not. I suppose at the end of the day I will be hiring Handymen to be doing simple repair jobs and not paying much, where as you guys will be paying a lot to a Tradesman to do a "good" job. Good luck to you. Cooker and fire fitted with garden hose and jubilee clips to gas supply:eek: , now then they were both working but was that ok? well the handyman who fitted thought they were and the people who paid him thought it was ok. What price is that good that anyone would find that sort of standard acceptable? |
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