Re: Tone Of voice
 

Hi Sandra

I wrote you some advice in another thread: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...hreadid=244479
Well, here it is again:
Hi glittababe, that is excellent advice. Especially the gradual distancing part. We are doing that now and it is working very well considering that the inlaws have been very possessive an manipulative the past few years.

LucyB, just remember that major changes in your life will shake up the comfort zone of the people close to you. That is why they act the way they do. Not many people like major changes and some people are very comfortable the way they are. How dare you come and shake up their perfect world? Remember that they have the right to feel the way they do and try to respect that. If you try to change their minds and attitude you WILL end up waisting your time.

sj oldfield, I read your other post. I heard the following words of wisdom in a movie once and it taught me a very important lesson: "You cannot take away people's right to be assholes." I have come to except it and respect their point of view. They have the right to feel the way they do and I have been sacrificing my quality of life and happiness by expecting THEM to change. I have learned to change myself and except things as they are. Now I am happy and they are misrable because they are unable to except change. Exceptance is a very important life skill. Life is all about change and those who don't know how to deal with it, will fall out of the game of life.

We are about 8 months away from leaving and it has been very tough. The inlaws are very selfish and their world revolves around them but I don't expect that to change. Good luck to us all!

Re: Tone Of voice
 

Someone has told me about this post and asked me to post a reply I gave to a similar thread from Tazzy in October. Some of it may be of some use to you, if nothing, at least you will realise that a lot of people go through what you are going through.




Our application is in, we’re just waiting to be asked for our medicals. My wife’s family and our closest friends know of our plans. We have two kids, Luke who’s 11 and Lia who’s 6. My wife’s mum has another daughter who emigrated to South Africa nearly 30 years ago and she knows that we are doing what we think is best for us. She knows that she won’t be around for ever, and has said that she won’t try to stop us. She can’t come with us but there is a new retirement visa where we can sponsor her after two years and she can come out that way. It’s very important to leave with options for the parents open. They may not take you up on the offer later, but it makes the process so much easier as they know that they’re not going to say goodbye forever.

Emigrating can be a horrible process for some people. People have to get their skills assessed, some people have to raise money for the application, some people have to sell their houses, the worries of the medical, taking children out of school, giving up jobs, fear of starting a new life all over again, wondering if you really are doing the best for your family and so on. But all these things a ring your control. The only thing that isn't in your control is how your family is going to react. Unfortunately, people have been burdened with a thing called ‘emotion’, which triggers another burden that we have all got, guilt. Unfortunately, the two of these things together, can often take away self-esteem and self-worth. Families are very, very good at using the emotional blackmail card, when it to getting what they want. Whether they mean to or not, people can be very selfish. Tazzy is going through what a lot of people have gone through from parents or grandparents, and the emotional blackmail card in her case is the grandchild.

In my job, I meet a lot of people and of the older ones that I have spoken to, most of them have said that if they had the chance years ago, they would have done exactly the same thing. A lot of them also have children who have emigrated to Australia and have said that although they were wary at first, they knew that deep down, they would have a better life in Australia. It's funny, but a lot of the people who don't want their children to go are the same people that wished that they had jumped at the chance to go to Australia for £10 years ago. The ironic thing is that these people would also have been leaving family behind and may have been taking children or grandchildren with them. These are also the same people who would have told their parents that this was their life, and don't try and run it for me.

As we grow up, we get to know just how emotional our families are, we know what hurts them and we know what upsets them. We know what to say and what not to say. With this in mind, if you have an emotional family, I think it is best not to tell them, while you are in the process of fact-finding and applying. This only causes unnecessary stress, worries and arguments at a time when you don’t know if you’re going or not. If you don’t get in, you don’t have to tell them. If you’ve got emotional parents anyway, though, you’ll probably get the “How could you keep it from us?� line. Either way, you can’t win. And if you know you can’t win, don’t even try to win.

I’m going to start getting pretty blunt now, so be careful. My philosophy is not for everyone and I tend to say what others are afraid to but I know it works. Here goes…

The saying, “ You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family�, is so true that most people are too frightened to use the saying to its fullest potential. Your parents will die eventually, I warned you this was going to get blunt, and if you keep putting off what you want to do, because of your family, eventually it will be too late to do what you wanted. I mean it's because you can only apply to emigrate to Australia up to the age of 45. After that you have to wait for retirement. People who have parents that die are normally over 45, and therefore it is too late to emigrate. Let’s have a look at ‘friends’. Friends are chosen very carefully, they are picked from millions of other people either because they are the same as you, like the same things, went to the same school, like the same music or are the complete opposite from you, but you see something in them that you like. It may be that a bit of your friend is a bit of who you want to be. Either way, there is something in that person that you can relate to, look up to or admire. If friends upset you, you can always find new ones. It's not the end of the world. You don’t have to go through life with the same friends, If they upset you, you either sort it out or you move on.

Family, on the other hand, you are born in to by accident of birth. Simple as that. You grow to love them because they feed, clothe and nurture you when you are young. When we grow older, we may not always like what they do. Just because they are ‘ family’, you do not have to put up with it. Family can be very hurtful, selfish, unfeeling, manipulative and stubborn. If this were a ‘friend’ you would dump them, wouldn’t you? Or at least, read them the riot act and try to sort it out so they don’t do it again. So if you can do this to a person who you have chosen to be a friend, why can’t you do this to a person who you had no choice to be with?

Emotion is a powerful thing that stops us doing or saying a lot of things. Sometimes we let our emotions get the better of us and we keep quiet for an easy life. We bottle it up. And the more we do this the easier it becomes to do it again. If we’re not careful, we find ourselves living our lives through someone else’s choices. We’re too easy to please the other person and not ourselves.




I do speak from experience, believe me! I haven’t seen my family for nearly 10 years and I couldn’t be happier. They have only seen my son a few times and have never seen my daughter. I have found a way to sort out which emotions I want to feel and which ones I don’t. It’s my wife who can’t understand how I can just ‘switch off’ certain things like that. She say’s every now and again, “Don’t you miss them?� and I can honestly say, ‘No’.

But it doesn’t have to get that far. If you nip this in the bud, there is no reason why a family cannot go on with you in another country. You don’t have to fall out before you go, just sort out before you go. They are going to get upset, they are going to get emotional and they may get angry. But you have to be strong and consistent for yourself and for them. Consistent for you, because if you show worries or doubt or you keep changing your mind, then they may play on this or think that you’ve not thought it through and it will prolong your own agony. You have to be consistent for them because deep down they want to know that you’ll be all right. This will be the final proof for them that you are ready to fly the nest and make it on your own. You may have thought that you had already flown the nest, but in your parents eyes, you were still not too far away, and they knew that you would always come back to the ‘nest’ if you were in trouble.

If none of this works and your family are still a babbling mess on the floor, then you have to use the only language that they understand, emotion. Play them at their own game, but play to win. Ask them what they would have done. Ask them to forget what you’re doing, and to put themselves in your shoes. Don’t ask them closed questions where they can answer with ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. Ask the open questions that start with ‘who, when, why, what, how and where’.

Set the scenario for them;

“Mum, Dad, imagine it was you in our shoes and you knew that your children were at risk on the streets and you feared for their future? Now suppose, just suppose you had the chance to bring your family up in a safer environment and give them a better standard of living and a better chance for the future because, let’s face it, things are only getting worse here, aren’t they?�

Then ask some open questions, like,

“How would you have felt, if you really thought you were doing the right thing but YOUR parents didn’t want you to go?�

“What would you have said to someone who tried to talk you out of wanting a better lifestyle for yourself and your children?�

“Why don’t you want me to give the kids a better chance in life?�

See what I mean? They can’t just answer ‘yes or no’ to any of these questions, it’ll get a discussion going and you’ll find out what their real ‘fears’ are. Once you find out, you can deal with them and put them to rest. (Their fears, not your parents!)

I don’t agree with the idea of only going for a year to see if you like it. Your parents will think it’s another hair brained scheme that’s doomed to failure, and you’ll be to cautious to set down roots or try anything permanent because in your head, you’re already going back. Say to them, “Look, if we go, there’s no reason why you can’t come out to us�. “Maybe once we’re there we could sponsor you to come out or maybe you could retire over here. After all, it would be a better lifestyle for you as well as for us�.

Well, I’ve waffled on enough and put the world to rights! You’re on your own now! Remember that YOU control YOUR life. Your grateful to your parents but you have you own family’s future to consider now. Remind them that if you had moved to Scotland or Spain, for example, if anything goes wrong in the family, by the time you make arrangements to travel home, you still wouldn’t be able to get home ‘till the next day. Same from Australia, it’s still only a day away, isn’t it?

Good luck,

Steve.

That's a great post Steve, honest and useful and rings true in many ways. Good on ya

Yeah, I missed that first time round - excellent post that is very realistic and pragmatic about the old emotional family ties.

Immediate family FIRST! Parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins & other peripherals LAST!

Thanks for that Steve

Great Post

Julia

Good post steve.
There's a lot there that i / we can relate to.

I firmly believe the role of parents is to teach their kids the difference from right and wrong, morals etc. and to stand them in good stead for their futures on their own.

I will be perfectly happy ( though talking about the future is one thing actually being there and doing it is another thing alltogether ) if our kids wish to return to the uk in years to come.As long as we know we have done our best by them.

All i want, once they have left home , is to be there for them if needed. Surely, that is the role of any parent.
I don't see that much of my parents, i don't need to, but i know if i ever needed them they would be there for me.

Paul

Great post Steve, and everyone else too.

Paul, continuing from your post, I think the role of parents is to do the best by their children, and do whatever they think will be the best for their child whatever the cost to the parent personally. Parents have to make some tough decisions, putting their children before themselves.

Most parents would say that they do this all the time, especially when the child is young.....as the child gets older though I think this changes somewhat. You hear quite often where the child is pressured into following in the father's footsteps, pressured into taking a place in the family business when this isn't what they want or being forced into some other decision because of emotional blackmail (the, I gave up everything for you, now it's my turn to get what I want).

Sorry for sounding bitter...just having a bit of a rough time at the moment.:(

Not bitter at all salli.

Ann-Marie is out with her mum today shopping, they go every tuesday and thursday and she probably see's her mum 3 or 4 times a week.

It was funny to read about distancing.I too suggested she saw less of her mum before we depart, thinking this would make our move easier for her.
to be perfectly honest, i have no idea if this would help or not.She reckons she wants to see as much of her mum as possible before we go so i have just sat back and bit my lip.

I understand what you are saying about peer pressure but as steve ( and others ) have said, it is about you and yours now.
You need to be strong and decisive in your actions.
Good luck.

Paul.

Funny that I have just come accross this post. I sopke to my mum the other day to tell her that we might be going in the next 2 months instead of the 18 months that it was to be and she was fine, seemed very happy for me and that made me happy.

However my grandmother is one of those people that cant let anyone do anything without making them feel remarkably guilty even to the point that when my mum and dad married, had me and got there own house she would call my mum everyother day saying that she was putting her head in the gas oven etc etc.

The rest of my mums sisters didn't really take as much notice of my nan but my mum being the woman she is took on all my nans crap by herself.

Now 2 of my aunts are moving to france and my nan is giving my mum hastle over it saying that she will never see them again, my mum told her to let them get on with it and it's there life to which my nan screamed at my mum that she does'nt know how it feels to have your daughters leaving the country. (obviously this is untrue being as me, her daughter is moving to Australia)

Unfortunately my mum sometimes slips into taking my Nans attitude (not to the same extent) and this morning started telling me how it was good for me but obviously not good for her. So I calmly slipped in that she sounded a bit like her mum and she pretended it was a joke and she was just messing arround.

I am lucky, my dad lived abroad until I was 17 so I didn't see him very often and I think it hardened me up for this moving abroad malarky, I can honestly say that I will be absolutely fine by just being able to have a quick call with my parents once a month or so.

At the end of the day everyone is different and every family is different, In a perfect world our ffamilies should support us in everything we do but it isn't like that so all anyone can do is what we believe is right for ourselves.

Kala

The silly thing is that I only see my Mum every couple of months for a couple of hours and speak to her on the phone once a week!!! There's not going to be a huge deal of change....in fact my husband and I worked out we'll probably see her more by moving down under as they'll come and stay for long periods of time. Mum just doesn't seem to want to listen to reason at the moment :(

I know that what I'm doing is for the best and I'm just going to have to stick to my guns. I'm sure that once we're there and I am still calling Mum once a week she'll wonder why she made so much fuss (at least that's what I'm hoping!)

If it gets too bad I thought I would ask her 'How would you feel if we didn't go because of what you're saying to me?' and see what her answer is. Dad isn't saying a word on the subject which is at least giving me some relief, though I'm sure he's just bottling everything up.

Thanks for your support Paul, it helps enormously.

No problem at all salli, with everything that's going on around you the last thing you need is a guilt trip too.

Be strong and remember why you're doing this.

Take care.
Paul.

Hi Salli

Are your family planning on visiting you when you get to Australia?

If they are, have some mock invitations made up with the most perfect picture of where you are going.

On the inside, have printed 'You are invited to stay with us for holidays' or something along those lines.

If you can make it as much like a perfect holiday as you can and make a big thing of how welcome they will all be (if they are that is)

Hopefully when your loved ones get this 'Invititation for a fantastic holiday', it might just win them round a little and give them something else to focus on.

You never know:D

That is a fantastic idea!:D
Going to get on that right away.

We are planning on having Christmas here in August with my Mum & Dad, complete with Christmas tree and decs, plus turkey and all the trimmings! We're getting them a 'going on holiday' kit as a pressie with the flight socks, ear plugs, travel toothbrush, all that sort of stuff in it. The invitations will be a perfect addition.

Thank you:D

Just had another idea with regards to invitations, you could also have something like:

Day one - Cold drinks and BBQ on the beach

That sort of thing, you can even do a menu or itinery or something.