Santa

My father is a Fireman in Surrey with 27 years behind him and is on £21000, some would say this is not a bad wage, but you try and find a house for under £150000, and the closer you get to London the worse it becomes, so he lives in Dorset and drives a 100 miles each way to work, even then he has a second job, another 20 hours a week on top of the 42 he does in the Fire Service, and this is to make ends meet, not live a life of luxury. My wife is a nurse (ICU) years of training, bags of experience and nowhere near £20000. One third of nurses in the UK now have second jobs (so the stats say, I bet it's more) again this is to make ends meet. Is it any wonder that these people have had enough.
Then what about teachers, ambulance staff and all the other souls that are being robbed by Mr Blair and his merry (wo)men. This poxy country sucks!!!. Oh yaeh, I'm about to loose my job because of the downturn in IT, anyone with a spare £700 per month to pay my mortgage, please get in touch.

Bernard

Santa

You're very critical of the UK, but have you lived anywhere else for any length of time?
I agree that things can be tough for public sector workers in the South-East UK, but elsewhere things are not so bad (in my recollection).

In the UK (North East) I earned £29k as a schoolteacher. That afforded me a fairly comfortable standard of living, but not luxurious. Here in Oz I earn about two-thirds of that (and I'm high up the salary scale here). Life is no hay ride, believe me. Overall I guess I have a similar standard of living, perhaps not so materially well off here (some imported stuff like electronics is relatively more expensive in Oz).
As regards the cost-of-living issue - well, try living in the Sydney area (expensive houses, congestion, some very dodgy areas etc.). Just as in the UK you really need two decent incomes to have a good living standard.

You also have to remember that working conditions can be better in UK (more holiday for most classes of workers) and foreign holidays are readily and cheaply available.

At the moment I'm staying in Oz for 'romantic reasons' :-p but in the longer term I may return to the UK (not SE though!).

I find it worrying when people say that the 'UK sucks' and that they are 'looking forward to the Australian lifestyle', 'clean streets' etc. etc. I wonder if they've actually ever been here....
I'm not saying don't come here, I'm just tryng to 'manage your expectations'.

pommie bastard

What you say has some truth , but we have looked at most jobs here and wages are lower plus worse conditions of employment , never understood what a battler is does it mean unemployed or on low income or both.
I do think that unskilled workers do get more here for what they have to give $9.0 ph min wage is high but this has a knock on affect and skilled wages are far to low.
We have told by the bank manager that are joint income puts us in top 20% of earners here if that is true god help the rest.
The cost of living in WA is quiet high most things are shipped in so there is a mark up cost the only things we think are cheaper than UK is Housing and Fuel also fast food which we do not eat.
What makes me laugh is reading about how Australia is some land of plenty , never met more people with empty pockets than here even council estate people in UK seem to have more to spend than the suburbian nobodies here.



By the way showed theses scales to the wife she says where does sign , was a F grade 9 years ago, is now above top level one here and gets $22. ph




MEDIA OFFICE

2001 Basic Pay Scales

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SALARIES OF REGISTERED NURSING STAFF 2001-2002

grade & point
current salary
new salary
increase £
increase %


E0
£15,920 £16,510 £590 3.7%
E1
£16,445 £17,055 £610 3.7%
E2
£17,025 £17,655 £630 3.7%
E3
£17,655 £18,310 £655 3.7%
E4
£18,435 £19,120 £685 3.7%
E5
£19,220 £19,935 £715 3.7%
F0
£17,655 £18,310 £655 3.7%
F1
£18,435 £19,120 £685 3.7%
F2
£19,220 £19,935 £715 3.7%
F3
£20,025 £20,770 £745 3.7%
F4
£20,830 £21,605 £775 3.7%
F5
£21,635 £22,440 £805 3.7%
F6
£22,040 £22,865 £825 3.7%
Fd1
£22,450 £23,285 £835 3.7%
Fd2
£22,860 £23,710 £850 3.7%
G0
£20,830 £21,605 £775 3.7%
G1
£21,635 £22,440 £805 3.7%
G2
£22,450 £23,285 £835 3.7%
G3
£23,270 £24,135 £865 3.7%
G4
£24,090 £24,985 £895 3.7%
Gd5
£24,510 £25,420 £910 3.7%
Gd1
£24,930 £25,855 £925 3.7%
Gd2
£25,350 £26,290 £940 3.7%
H0
£23,270 £24,135 £865 3.7%
H1
£24,090 £24,985 £895 3.7%
H2
£24,930 £25,855 £925 3.7%
H3
£25,770 £26,725 £955 3.7%
H4
£26,610 £27,595 £985 3.7%
H5
£27,040 £28,045 £1005 3.7%
Hd1
£27,475 £28,495 £1020 3.7%
Hd2
£27,910 £28,945 £1035 3.7%
I0
£25,770 £26,725 £955 3.7%
I1
£26,610 £27,595 £985 3.7%
I2
£27,475 £28,495 £1020 3.7%
I3
£28,340 £29,395 £1055 3.7%
I4
£29,205 £30,295 £1090 3.7%
I5
£29,620 £30,720 £1100 3.7%
Id1
£30,055 £31,170 £1115 3.7%
Id2
£30,490 £31,620 £1130 3.7%

Recommended levels of standby and on-call allowances:

current level
recommended level
(1 April 2001)

Standby

overnight
£11.94 £12.39
weekend (per period)
£16.23 £16.84
statutory/public holidays (per period)
£20.73 £21.50

On-call

overnight
£5.95 £6.18
weekend (per period)
£8.89 £9.22
statutory/public holidays (per period)
£11.94 £12.39

London Allowances

Inner London

current level
£2,280 plus 5% of salary up to a maximum of £750

recommended level*
£2,365 plus 5% of salary up to a maximum of £750



Outer London

current level
£1,623 plus 5% of salary up to a maximum of £750

recommended level*
£1,684 plus 5% of salary up to a maximum of £750


Fringe Zone

current level
£295 plus 2.5% of salary up to a maximum of £375

recommended level*
£306 plus 2.5% of salary up to a maximum of £375



Extra-territorially managed and contiguous units

current level
£649 plus the % of salary or maximum appropriate to the health district in which the unit is situated

recommended level*
£674 plus the % of salary or maximum appropriate to the health district in which the unit is situated

*1 April 2001


BACK

RCN press archive
Nursing pay scales 2001

pommie bastard

Typical UK whinger you Sir should check out wage levels here and house prices area to area , Maybe you can explain why my son and his girl both earn above 40K each in them lovely pounds there , and have a house in better part of the Midlands cost 112K last year 3 bed detacted with garage.
Went back last year on holiday seen guys I worked with they are flat out earning more per week in pounds than I do in Dollars doing the
same job.
We came here because Mad Maggi was intent on kicking everyone into the gutter you pal must live there, what I see now the South East over heating and the rest of the country doing more than OK .
All the jobs you name in your bull have worse wages here and strike at lest once a year even the nurses, who are leaving in large numbers take action about wages and conditions.
Come here and see the land of plenty you will fit once you get used to walking on your knees.
Wages for nurses are worse here (my wife is one) also sick pay 10 days a year only ,holidays about 30% less.
IT forget it better start learning brick laying this pays by brick layed ,have you got a days work in you , because you sound like southern softy.

pommie bastard

Thats very good even now , have heard that more than a few ladies drive dump trucks on mine sites for even better money saying that its not to be earned in Perth we both earn about $22 ph which is better than most , I would say $16 ph is about average here some earn even less.Best wishes PB

Herman

I agree - I am often amazed to discover that bricklayers and labourers earn almost as much as chartered accountants in this country. Wages and standard of living for the 'low' earners are, in my opinion, better in Australia than in the south of England. Likewise, wages and standard of living for professionals are relatively worse in Australia than in England. True for me anyway - local salaries for someone with my background are very very average in any part of Australia, even when factoring in house prices. There is not the same demand or premium paid for professionals over here. If you are a lawyer, accountant or bank manager Australia will not lead to a material improvement in your standard of living, probably the opposite, but if you are a bricklayer, chippy or sparky you'll do well over here, relative to England anyway.

Perth Helena

Oh, I don't know, but why focus on trades and dump truck driving as if there can't possibly be any other types of jobs here? How about studying to be a vet? an accountant? dental hygienist? dentist? financial analyst? chemical analyst? typesetter? or just open your own business, etc., etc.

Exaggeration. "Most"?? Some, but most? Sorry disagree. Most of the people I know think of fast food as something to get out of convenience but they don't view it as a "big day out". I'm sure many people do. But what city doesn't have people like that? Seems to me a lot of Perth residents have enough money to spare to go to decent restaurants and cafes around town. Go to Subi, Scarborough, Freo, Cottesloe, Hillarys. Most evenings it's "no booking? no table". Freo's busy all day long on weekends, and even Fridays, with outdoor tables packed. You can't even get into Hillarys most weekends, even in winter. I work in the City 2 or 3 days a week. Obviously loads of people have money to spare on lunches in some pretty nice restaurants, not just food courts and kebabs. I just don't see this abject poverty you keep going on about. Every city has a poor sector.

True but then we're not exactly a hop skip and a jump to a lot of places so you enjoy what's on your own doorstep. Many people spend thousands of dollars and travel thousands of miles to come see what we have here. Southwest is beautiful. Lots to see and enjoy there for many trips. Head east towards Esperance - gorgeous. Okay, so there's no Leaning Tower of Pisa or famous art galleries, but is that the only acceptable holiday? You can't enjoy space, no crowds, unspoiled nature, a beach all to yourself, good fishing? If that's not your thing, then you should have figured that out before you got here.

But you'd be surprised how many people do manage to get overseas or across the country. The money must come from somewhere. Maybe because you don't have massive mortgages for 25 years, you can afford that more? I know we can. Friends of ours went to NZ last year. Other friends on a South Pacific cruise, 4 of them, kids included. Next door neighbour China. Lady I work with at the office, 3 weeks in Thailand & Vietnam last month. Hairdresser Italy. Son's friend and his family: USA. Daughter's friend: Singapore & Japan. Just off the top of my head and we don't live in Applecross or hang out with Rose. Just your middle class types.

Yep, see many heaps and bangers and bombs. But see a heck of a lot of brand new massive 4WDs that cost a downpayment on a house. Sometimes 2 of those in the driveway along with an old bomb (usually the teenager's car). Seems that many can afford 2 cars, even 3, plus a boat. Utes with expensive paint jobs (whatever for?) and riced up little sporty cars with so many options on them they cost more than the car itself. And a young bloke can expect to pay $2k+ for insurance alone.

Some houses yes. I wouldn't lump them all in the same bag. I'm sure you find shoddy workmanship in many cities and countries. Perhaps the UK is luckily free of this but there were some horror stories in Vancouver of some construction workers using low-grade timber for supporting beams, leaking condominiums, and many other cases of crap work.

Sweatboxes? Easy - ceiling insulation plus an aircon unit or two. More and more are being built with this. Damp? Maybe a bit chilly due to no central heating but damp? Sorry, not aware of this as a major problem in Perth.

Go with a reputable builder. Personally I wouldn't trust many of these "owner builders", as they tend to do things on the cheap as possible since they have no reputation to protect. And many have little experience at it anyway. Many Aussies just want to get into their own home versus renting, so their house will be basic with not much value-added stuff but again, I wouldn't say it's the majority.

Perth Helena

Obviously depends on what industry & company. Maybe even a bit of luck. Calculated my husband's pay as an IT project manager and he comes in at $37/hr. He gets annual bonuses too. And various discounts - medical insurance, loan rates, paint & some other goods. I've been temping - light computer/office part-time work. Lowest hourly rate I've been getting for some no-brainer joe-job work has been $18/hr. Plus super. I get more for anything more technical - $25 to $30/hr. Of course, as a temp you don't get sick pay or holidays but it suits me fine. I think my 16 year old will be getting $7.20/hr just for stocking grocery shelves part-time IIRC.

pommie bastard

You are right in a lot of what you say to some degree , I could put everything you wrote down but also I can find a lot of very good information in it also.
Most of the jobs you mention are hard to get, look in the local paper most jobs are trades and a lot are on mine sites way up north or goverment jobs.
We have insulation and air-con no heating , the windows are poor here and are very poor in most homes also wall insulation would improve all homes here, not to say double glazing would keep heat out and be warmer in winter.
Most of our friends houses smell damp in winter because they only able to heat one room, it is cold here in winter very at night and boy does it rain never seen down falls in UK like here .
Booking meals is easy here even weekends never been turned away at any place, I find the saying that sums up most here is working poor .
Nearly everyone we know carries more debt than they had in UK, and they always have friends and family coming out where they can not afford to travel to UK and most cases out of Australia.
You seem to have more time on your hands than me , please explain its very interesting.

pommie bastard

Now you are talking rubbish , Nursing starting pay is $13.60 ph look at awards for even brain jobs are crap and most only pay award.
Check out jobs and awards you need education about whats out there , get real.


http://www.wagenet.gov.au

Santa

Your spot on PommieB, I do like a good moan, comes from working up north for the past three years, £11000 wont get you a flat above the Curry House where I come from, ex council starts at £180,000 have a look at rightmove.com, you need a shed more that 40k if you want anything more than a 1 room studio, House prices up 23% in the past 12 months wages connot match that. Luckely for me I've got a 300 year old 4 bed cottage £300,000, so I'll flog it, move to Perth so you can kiss my arse, perhaps you'd like to buy it Pommie, or perhaps you can buy my shed!!!.

Devlin

For christ's sake I am so sick of hearing nurses and fire fighters moan in this country! If you don't like your salary get another job in a different profession! To think fire fighters are talking about striking because they want 40% more is ludicrous - if I did that I would be told to go somewhere else and this is what they should be told.

Santa

Hi Bernard,
No I have not lived in another country for any length of time, although I have lived in different parts of the UK. Yesterday I was not a happy chap, my current job is near completion and the IT market is really quiet, this puts untold pressure on my wife who is then the sole earner, on top of this we have three young children, we both work shift's and we seem to stutter along month to month, I'm self employed, so terms and conditions of employment i.e. holiday pay/sickness are not really an issue. My expectations I hope, are pretty realistic, we will not have to have a mortgage so the need will not be so great to earn daft money, this opens doors to re-training and get me into an outside profession, (the one I've wanted for many years), that is what I want. Before you say it, I know that it could be done in the UK, but we both would like a change, and if it flops, then we will do something else, and we will have no regrets.

mashiraz

Santa, we are likeminded, although different backgrounds. Nice to hear from someone else with a realist plan for arrival and balanced view of reasons for leaving rather than rose tinted specs and all about weather.
Cheers
Mash...

Santa

Quite agree with you, 40% is way off the mark, but so is expecting them to live on peanuts and something is going to have to give. You may say £21000 is not peanuts, I agree, but how the hell are they meant to afford a house on that money. As for getting a different job, well I think you'll find that a huge number of nurses are already doing that, so the next time you are up at casulty and it takes 6 hours to be seen, you'll know why !.