Student Debt
Dec 7th 2003, 11:18 pm
#31
Rocket Scientist
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Dreamland AKA Brisbane which is a different country to the UK
Posts: 6,911
Re: Worth a go
Originally posted by JTowers
These newer loans (which my partner has) are tied directly to your earnings and taken automatically from any wages you earn via the inland revenue. Thus if you are not earning in the UK deductions cannot be taken but their policy is that it is your responsibility to contact the SLC once you are working abroad to work out how much you would owe them per month and then send them a cheque for that amount - very likely to happen!!!
Their whole 'plan' on how this would work practically seems very sketchy to me and even if you were to return to the UK after a few years all that would happen is that you would start repayments again direct from your wages once you started working. They would be unable to chase you for missed payments while you were out of the country as they have no way of knowing what you were up to.
These newer loans (which my partner has) are tied directly to your earnings and taken automatically from any wages you earn via the inland revenue. Thus if you are not earning in the UK deductions cannot be taken but their policy is that it is your responsibility to contact the SLC once you are working abroad to work out how much you would owe them per month and then send them a cheque for that amount - very likely to happen!!!
Their whole 'plan' on how this would work practically seems very sketchy to me and even if you were to return to the UK after a few years all that would happen is that you would start repayments again direct from your wages once you started working. They would be unable to chase you for missed payments while you were out of the country as they have no way of knowing what you were up to.
You might want to think about what it will be like to have someone rock up on your doorstep to "see" your partner if he just happens to *forget* to repay his loan. Not sure what effect it will have on you both, but Im betting that it probably wont be good.
Dec 8th 2003, 2:07 am
#32
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: South of England
Posts: 10
What a lot of bitter people!
so my options are
1)Run to oz.
2)Stay in England and pay off the student debt for the next 10 years assuming I'll be able to find a good enough job...
3)Run to oz and pay debt from there (probably take a lifetime with the AU$)
4)defer,defer,defer to my dying day...
suggestions dagboy et al?
so my options are
1)Run to oz.
2)Stay in England and pay off the student debt for the next 10 years assuming I'll be able to find a good enough job...
3)Run to oz and pay debt from there (probably take a lifetime with the AU$)
4)defer,defer,defer to my dying day...
suggestions dagboy et al?
Dec 8th 2003, 2:29 am
#33
What's he asking?
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: somewhere
Posts: 618
i to have student debt having studied for a batchelors and a two year masters which i paid for myself. i dont want to avoid paying mine off. i have had debt hanging round my neck for the last 8 years and i am getting well and truly ****ed off with it. the sooner its gone the better. i wouldnt want to nto pay it off as the thought of being collared if i ever were to return to england and then to continue paying off then would be even more annoying than paying it now.
Dec 8th 2003, 2:45 am
#34
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,147
I too am working hard to get my student debts paid off, its no big deal - you will have to face up to your responsibility at some time.
by the way, if you renenber when you first filled in the forms, they asked you for details of parent/alternative contact - beleive me they hound this person for your details!!! When I moved house and they lost my change of address details they hounded the people i had initially put down - who were not impressed!!!!
just a thought
sue
by the way, if you renenber when you first filled in the forms, they asked you for details of parent/alternative contact - beleive me they hound this person for your details!!! When I moved house and they lost my change of address details they hounded the people i had initially put down - who were not impressed!!!!
just a thought
sue
Dec 8th 2003, 2:59 am
#35
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2003
Location: The Green behind the Gold
Posts: 885
Originally posted by jonx8814
What a lot of bitter people!
so my options are
4)defer,defer,defer to my dying day...
suggestions dagboy et al?
What a lot of bitter people!
so my options are
4)defer,defer,defer to my dying day...
suggestions dagboy et al?
Looks like this shady life you plan on living will take its toll. The debt gets cancelled if you reach 55 or 59 IIRC.
Dec 8th 2003, 3:17 am
#36
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
I could care less with jonx8814 succeeds or fails in is attempt to escape his student debt. I doubt he will, I wouldn't (and haven't) attempt to.
However, if the NZ govt came to be tomorrow said: " okay, we're going to write off your debt - even though you do have a moral obligation to pay the money we loaned you, if you want it to be written off, the we will. Let us I remind you again that by not paying this back, you are stealing from the NZ tax payer - but that it is up to you, if you want to live knowing you have ignored your moral obligation, the that is up to you"...
what would I say - YES! Of course....
Why?
Well because when I started university when I was 18. At that age I was drifting - I had no idea what I wanted to with life, I certainly had absolutely no inclination to get a job. Without borrowing all that money from the govt I wouldn't have gone to university.
So then I got to university. If I'd gone a few years earlier I would have been eligible for a student allowance from the govt (everyone got one), but the law changed and it was now 'means tested' - ie my parents earnt over the NZ$50K combined income (not a lot really) threshold so I got nothing from the govt, and my parents couldn't afford to support me any more than a token amount.
So who did get the student allowance?? I'll tell you who... all the kids who had loaded parents - parents who could afford good accountants and had dodgy morals - parents who had businesses and farms - parents who could obscure their income so they always came out below the 'threshold'.
Who else? Well all those students who had sham marriages or arranged other fiddles to get an allowance from the govt.
I didn't do any of that. Instead a got a bulk sum of money from the govt and went out and bought a stereo, Cds, and loads of beer. I was 18! And rich.... I gave no thought to paying it back.
Now I have no one but myself to blame for that - and later I got a part time job (which wasn't enough to cover everything btw).
Yes I should have been more mature - yes I should have worked harder - but at least me and my parents were honest.
So, I don't blame anyone for looking for loopholes. I feel absolutely no moral obligation to pay back my loan. I will eventually pay it back, but only because there is no way to escape it, and it's annoying. These are selfish reasons - not moral reasons.
If there was a risk free 'loophole' or way out - I'd take it. Unfortunately there is no such thing....
However, if the NZ govt came to be tomorrow said: " okay, we're going to write off your debt - even though you do have a moral obligation to pay the money we loaned you, if you want it to be written off, the we will. Let us I remind you again that by not paying this back, you are stealing from the NZ tax payer - but that it is up to you, if you want to live knowing you have ignored your moral obligation, the that is up to you"...
what would I say - YES! Of course....
Why?
Well because when I started university when I was 18. At that age I was drifting - I had no idea what I wanted to with life, I certainly had absolutely no inclination to get a job. Without borrowing all that money from the govt I wouldn't have gone to university.
So then I got to university. If I'd gone a few years earlier I would have been eligible for a student allowance from the govt (everyone got one), but the law changed and it was now 'means tested' - ie my parents earnt over the NZ$50K combined income (not a lot really) threshold so I got nothing from the govt, and my parents couldn't afford to support me any more than a token amount.
So who did get the student allowance?? I'll tell you who... all the kids who had loaded parents - parents who could afford good accountants and had dodgy morals - parents who had businesses and farms - parents who could obscure their income so they always came out below the 'threshold'.
Who else? Well all those students who had sham marriages or arranged other fiddles to get an allowance from the govt.
I didn't do any of that. Instead a got a bulk sum of money from the govt and went out and bought a stereo, Cds, and loads of beer. I was 18! And rich.... I gave no thought to paying it back.
Now I have no one but myself to blame for that - and later I got a part time job (which wasn't enough to cover everything btw).
Yes I should have been more mature - yes I should have worked harder - but at least me and my parents were honest.
So, I don't blame anyone for looking for loopholes. I feel absolutely no moral obligation to pay back my loan. I will eventually pay it back, but only because there is no way to escape it, and it's annoying. These are selfish reasons - not moral reasons.
If there was a risk free 'loophole' or way out - I'd take it. Unfortunately there is no such thing....
Last edited by jandjuk; Dec 8th 2003 at 3:22 am.
Dec 8th 2003, 5:15 am
#37
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Down the road, that's where I'll always be
Posts: 467
I remembered an earlier thread on this subject (I didn't realise it was as far back as Aprill 2002 though..) where some useful info was posted (aswell as the same moral rights and wrongs being hurled around).
Those that who are that interested (probably those who wonder, "Can I get away with it?") might want to take a look at the thread here. It's almost a carbon copy of this thread except somebody was able to post an anecdote about a friend being caught up with in Sydney - it was a student loan that hadn't been repayed.
Those that who are that interested (probably those who wonder, "Can I get away with it?") might want to take a look at the thread here. It's almost a carbon copy of this thread except somebody was able to post an anecdote about a friend being caught up with in Sydney - it was a student loan that hadn't been repayed.
Dec 8th 2003, 7:04 am
#38
Born to be ignored
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Anstead, Brisbane
Posts: 1,138
Originally posted by young_lad
I remembered an earlier thread on this subject (I didn't realise it was as far back as Aprill 2002 though..) where some useful info was posted (aswell as the same moral rights and wrongs being hurled around).
Those that who are that interested (probably those who wonder, "Can I get away with it?") might want to take a look at the thread here. It's almost a carbon copy of this thread except somebody was able to post an anecdote about a friend being caught up with in Sydney - it was a student loan that hadn't been repayed.
I remembered an earlier thread on this subject (I didn't realise it was as far back as Aprill 2002 though..) where some useful info was posted (aswell as the same moral rights and wrongs being hurled around).
Those that who are that interested (probably those who wonder, "Can I get away with it?") might want to take a look at the thread here. It's almost a carbon copy of this thread except somebody was able to post an anecdote about a friend being caught up with in Sydney - it was a student loan that hadn't been repayed.
Dec 8th 2003, 7:23 am
#39
AWOL
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Victor Harbor, SA
Posts: 1,256
I hope I don't disgust the 'holier than thou' brigade here but dodging the slc is great if you can do it! They were set up to aid students and in the early years this was the case. Interest only at the rate of inflation and the loan was paid back when the person could afford to. But then the government flogged it to a private company and now they're little better than any other loan company. Jesus had the right idea of the moral character of moneylenders. Obviously though the likes of Downunderpom and Dagboy would have demanded his imprisonment after his actions in the temple. And Mohammed outlawed loaning with interest altogether!
If we're going to class loan dodgers as evil criminals with no more right to live on the planet than a weasel then presumably you all also think that anyone who has ever downloaded a music file is in the same category? Or anyone who hasn't paid a trainfare? How about if an ATM starts spewing out money into the street, should we remove the testicles of anyone who doesn't hand the money straight back?
And what about the scum that pay builders cash in hand for jobs? Hang 'em high, bloody tax cheats!
If we're going to class loan dodgers as evil criminals with no more right to live on the planet than a weasel then presumably you all also think that anyone who has ever downloaded a music file is in the same category? Or anyone who hasn't paid a trainfare? How about if an ATM starts spewing out money into the street, should we remove the testicles of anyone who doesn't hand the money straight back?
And what about the scum that pay builders cash in hand for jobs? Hang 'em high, bloody tax cheats!
Dec 8th 2003, 7:57 am
#40
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Originally posted by Kentish Man
I hope I don't disgust the 'holier than thou' brigade here but dodging the slc is great if you can do it! They were set up to aid students and in the early years this was the case. Interest only at the rate of inflation and the loan was paid back when the person could afford to. But then the government flogged it to a private company and now they're little better than any other loan company. Jesus had the right idea of the moral character of moneylenders. Obviously though the likes of Downunderpom and Dagboy would have demanded his imprisonment after his actions in the temple. And Mohammed outlawed loaning with interest altogether!
If we're going to class loan dodgers as evil criminals with no more right to live on the planet than a weasel then presumably you all also think that anyone who has ever downloaded a music file is in the same category? Or anyone who hasn't paid a trainfare? How about if an ATM starts spewing out money into the street, should we remove the testicles of anyone who doesn't hand the money straight back?
And what about the scum that pay builders cash in hand for jobs? Hang 'em high, bloody tax cheats!
I hope I don't disgust the 'holier than thou' brigade here but dodging the slc is great if you can do it! They were set up to aid students and in the early years this was the case. Interest only at the rate of inflation and the loan was paid back when the person could afford to. But then the government flogged it to a private company and now they're little better than any other loan company. Jesus had the right idea of the moral character of moneylenders. Obviously though the likes of Downunderpom and Dagboy would have demanded his imprisonment after his actions in the temple. And Mohammed outlawed loaning with interest altogether!
If we're going to class loan dodgers as evil criminals with no more right to live on the planet than a weasel then presumably you all also think that anyone who has ever downloaded a music file is in the same category? Or anyone who hasn't paid a trainfare? How about if an ATM starts spewing out money into the street, should we remove the testicles of anyone who doesn't hand the money straight back?
And what about the scum that pay builders cash in hand for jobs? Hang 'em high, bloody tax cheats!
Right - let's straighten out some of your misconceptions, Mr Know-It-All.
"dodging the slc is great if you can do it!" You can't. Only a braindead moron would think that you can. You want to screw up your life at the outset, then go right ahead, but don't expect to get away with it and don't come bleating to me when you get caught.
Jesus and the moneylenders, Mohammed and usery - I think they had the right idea. I spent five years in the Middle East, dealing with banks who would not touch interest, and I thought that was a great idea. This interest thing is a complete ripoff, anyway, but look at the alternative - no banks. Well, why would they run a business at a loss? Would you? Of course not. How do you and your conniving mates then pay for all these 'things' you want?
You and your fellow 'get away with it' crew should be thanking the SLC - they're educating you, only you're too thick to realise it. You want 'things', and you want them NOW... so how do you get them? On credit, because you don't have the self discipline to wait until you can pay cash. You want the house, the car, the clothes, the holiday, and you want them all NOW. So you get credit, and whine about having to not only having to pay it back, but having to pay for the rental of that money, too! Well, how dare they?! You want what it took your parents 20+ years to achieve, and you want it yesterday. Well, you can't have it - not without paying for it.
And I have NO problem with weasels. They are what they are and make no bones about it.
You want to cheer on these guys and say 'yeah, you go ahead and cheat as much as you like'? Well, don't start whinging when they start cheating YOU. What? You think they won't? This is education, pal, this is Life. This is the real deal, and what they do now will affect the rest of their lives, their outlook, and the way they deal with their fellow humans from now on.
And as far as 'balls' are concerned, these guys have to have some before they can be cut off.
Dec 8th 2003, 8:08 am
#41
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Originally posted by jonx8814
What a lot of bitter people!
so my options are
pay off the student debt
Run
suggestions dagboy et al?
What a lot of bitter people!
so my options are
pay off the student debt
Run
suggestions dagboy et al?
Suggestions? Just one: get a backbone, and accept your responsibilities. If you don't do it now, you never will.
Dec 8th 2003, 8:12 am
#42
AWOL
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Victor Harbor, SA
Posts: 1,256
Originally posted by downunderpom
Bitter? Who's bitter? Not me, but it does rather sound like YOU are bitter - bitter at having to pay back what you borrowed, with interest. We who are objecting to your idea just dislike people who try to cheat others. Think you'll stop at cheating faceless companies? Not likely. If you do this, the worst thing for you would be for you to get away with it. That will teach you to do it again, and again. One day, it will all catch up with you.
Suggestions? Just one: get a backbone, and accept your responsibilities. If you don't do it now, you never will.
Bitter? Who's bitter? Not me, but it does rather sound like YOU are bitter - bitter at having to pay back what you borrowed, with interest. We who are objecting to your idea just dislike people who try to cheat others. Think you'll stop at cheating faceless companies? Not likely. If you do this, the worst thing for you would be for you to get away with it. That will teach you to do it again, and again. One day, it will all catch up with you.
Suggestions? Just one: get a backbone, and accept your responsibilities. If you don't do it now, you never will.
At the end of the day you're the sad little fella raging at the world whilst some of us concentrate on our own lives and enjoying it.
Get a life.
Dec 8th 2003, 8:17 am
#43
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Originally posted by Kentish Man
Get a life.
Get a life.
Wonderful wife, nice property, nice car, job I enjoy, money in the bank and my health.
Got everything I could possibly need.
Dec 8th 2003, 8:18 am
#44
AWOL
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Victor Harbor, SA
Posts: 1,256
Originally posted by downunderpom
"Holier than thou"? How the hell did religion rear it's ugly head?
Right - let's straighten out some of your misconceptions, Mr Know-It-All.
"dodging the slc is great if you can do it!" You can't. Only a braindead moron would think that you can. You want to screw up your life at the outset, then go right ahead, but don't expect to get away with it and don't come bleating to me when you get caught.
Jesus and the moneylenders, Mohammed and usery - I think they had the right idea. I spent five years in the Middle East, dealing with banks who would not touch interest, and I thought that was a great idea. This interest thing is a complete ripoff, anyway, but look at the alternative - no banks. Well, why would they run a business at a loss? Would you? Of course not. How do you and your conniving mates then pay for all these 'things' you want?
You and your fellow 'get away with it' crew should be thanking the SLC - they're educating you, only you're too thick to realise it. You want 'things', and you want them NOW... so how do you get them? On credit, because you don't have the self discipline to wait until you can pay cash. You want the house, the car, the clothes, the holiday, and you want them all NOW. So you get credit, and whine about having to not only having to pay it back, but having to pay for the rental of that money, too! Well, how dare they?! You want what it took your parents 20+ years to achieve, and you want it yesterday. Well, you can't have it - not without paying for it.
And I have NO problem with weasels. They are what they are and make no bones about it.
You want to cheer on these guys and say 'yeah, you go ahead and cheat as much as you like'? Well, don't start whinging when they start cheating YOU. What? You think they won't? This is education, pal, this is Life. This is the real deal, and what they do now will affect the rest of their lives, their outlook, and the way they deal with their fellow humans from now on.
And as far as 'balls' are concerned, these guys have to have some before they can be cut off.
"Holier than thou"? How the hell did religion rear it's ugly head?
Right - let's straighten out some of your misconceptions, Mr Know-It-All.
"dodging the slc is great if you can do it!" You can't. Only a braindead moron would think that you can. You want to screw up your life at the outset, then go right ahead, but don't expect to get away with it and don't come bleating to me when you get caught.
Jesus and the moneylenders, Mohammed and usery - I think they had the right idea. I spent five years in the Middle East, dealing with banks who would not touch interest, and I thought that was a great idea. This interest thing is a complete ripoff, anyway, but look at the alternative - no banks. Well, why would they run a business at a loss? Would you? Of course not. How do you and your conniving mates then pay for all these 'things' you want?
You and your fellow 'get away with it' crew should be thanking the SLC - they're educating you, only you're too thick to realise it. You want 'things', and you want them NOW... so how do you get them? On credit, because you don't have the self discipline to wait until you can pay cash. You want the house, the car, the clothes, the holiday, and you want them all NOW. So you get credit, and whine about having to not only having to pay it back, but having to pay for the rental of that money, too! Well, how dare they?! You want what it took your parents 20+ years to achieve, and you want it yesterday. Well, you can't have it - not without paying for it.
And I have NO problem with weasels. They are what they are and make no bones about it.
You want to cheer on these guys and say 'yeah, you go ahead and cheat as much as you like'? Well, don't start whinging when they start cheating YOU. What? You think they won't? This is education, pal, this is Life. This is the real deal, and what they do now will affect the rest of their lives, their outlook, and the way they deal with their fellow humans from now on.
And as far as 'balls' are concerned, these guys have to have some before they can be cut off.
Ever downloaded a music file then? Do you condemn this activity as vigourously as dodging a loan. Same thing isn't it?
Dec 8th 2003, 8:31 am
#45
Loving it in Bundy
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Bundaberg, Australia
Posts: 1,775
I have a student loan and graduate loan even though I worked my way through a 4 year course. I studied hard and I partied hard when time allowed. If I hadn't taken those loans, I would not be in the position I am in now. 6 years of teaching under my belt and the possibility of a whole new life. All I have to say is thank you to the people who let me borrow the money in the first place and yes I will be paying every penny back before I start my new life.
Sarah
Sarah
