johnpod

Hi can anyone tell me if private schools are much better than state, ie are they worth the extra cash injection? Have downloaded the queensland school year 12 results for 2005 and 2006 but strugle to know how to read them adn what really looking for. Private schools seem to offer less subject choice and dont always seem to get better results (looking at senior certificates, QTAC places and % in top 1-15 - am I looking at the right stuff here?)
Main priority after jobs is good schools for 12 and 14 year olds who do well here - 14 year old told would get 8-10 A-C grades at GCSE so don't want to fail her now by moving her - prob doing that anyway.

Any insights/help much appreciated

Ali

JAJ

Depends on the type of private school, and the personality of your child.

Some children will do well in a private school. With others, it won't make much difference while others will hate it (for example, if it is strongly religious and they don't agree with it).

Not all state schools are the same either.

Don't assume your children will all be equally suited to the same school.

NKSK version 2

There are very, very few state schools which I've been impressed with here in WA.

Bearing in mind the absence of any benchmarking data, I'm even suspicious about the so called good ones which are primarily good because they have rich, supportive, parents.

I echo JAJ's comments about idiosyncracies - schools and children - I'm just extremely disappointed by education in WA - as you can tell because I keep banging on about it.

themerlin

Private schools seem very religious, thats what puts me off!

Nu-Shooz

My opinion is NO.

Depends on your child too, are they good workers, listeners, willing to do well and not mess about.

I have many teenagers round my house (i have teenage kids) and some goto private schools and they say they are rubbish. Mine goto state schools and i don't rate them either.

Wave the Sails

Hello there,
Which locations (UK or elsewhere in the world) do you think have better schools?
What are you particularly disappointed with?
Best,
Mrs. J

NickyC

In NSW, private schools and selective state schools always outperform the bog-standard state schools.

You'd expect selective state schools to do well as they take the cream of the crop, but most private schools are comprehensive (ie non-selective) and they perform better than the non-selective state schools.

Usually in the HSC (Year 12 exams in NSW) of the 30 top-performing schools, you will get 3-4 schools listed that are non-selective state schools. The remainder of the top-performers are usually split 50-50 between selective state and private schools.

Make of that, what you will!

NKSK version 2

I'm doing my tax return but I'm really happy to pontificate for a moment...

For me there are three key strands to a successful education system:

1. Discipline in schools
2. A rigorous curriculum which has global currency.
3. Well qualified, skilled teachers.

Discipline
Both the UK and WA have severe problems with this and to be honest I'm not sure which is better or worse. It is very hit and miss here as it is in the UK dependent on the nature of parents in the catchment. I do know that the issue of poor discipline in the UK is being tackled and there have been suggestions of attempts here also.

Curriculum
I am a great admirer of the UK curriculum – as it seems are many other countries in the world. There are issues with grade inflation at A level in particular and coursework at GCSE but in the case of the latter, recent amendments were made to reduce this significantly and thereby maintain rigour (i.e. stopping parents from completing it!). At primary level, I’m not a fan of hot housing but there is huge emphasis on literacy and numeracy and I believe rightly so. These two skills are key for everything else.

In WA the primary curriculum is dominated by the Curriculum Framework, possibly one of the most verbose, nebulous documents you could ever have the misfortune to read. It is essentially unintelligible and teachers if they are to carry out their job effectively, it seems spend more time on paperwork than they do on teaching. Ask your child’s teacher for a report on what your child actually knows and understands in literacy and numeracy in WA and the teacher will struggle to answer the question.
At secondary level in WA, we are in a huge mess. The new courses have been in the process of being written for at least 4 years. And again, they take their cue from the curriculum framework – nebulous, verbose and difficult to interpret. There is very little knowledge and understanding within the courses. Students could end up leaving school knowing very little and understanding key concepts even less. I fear that graduates of WA secondary won't have a hope in hell of competing against Singaporeans, Brits, Europeans...
The problem here is an essentially unaccountable branch of the civil service who have vested interests in furthering a highly politicized curriculum.

Well, qualified teachers.
There are many smart, skilled teachers but I have met teachers in WA who frankly can hardly string sentences together, God knows how they teach. The UK, a few years ago, finally realized that it had to pay fairly decent wages to attract smart people into the profession and keep them there. In WA they still pay badly. In my WA private school, I earn about $18-20K less than I would in the UK in a similar position in a STATE school.

I’m also not convinced that there are enough subject specialists with degrees in their subjects in WA. It would be virtually unheard of (in my experience) for an A level teacher in the UK not to have a degree in their subject. Not so here.

I also have other concerns about the age which students leave school here, the availability of universities (i.e. UWA here for top students), the quality of universities, the lack of inspection or accountability in education.

Overall, although I do agree that the system really does develop self-confidence in kids, I think that just about everything else in WA’s education system is well below-par.

NKSK version 2

Sorry - never answered the first part.

I'd never send my kids to our local comp. in the uK primarily because of teh discipline issue.

I'd always go for private just to get rid of many (not all) of those parents who have no interest in controlling their child's behaviour or encouraging respect for others.

Could never afford private school in the UK so I'd need to teach at one to get reduced fees!!

Singapore has its problems but I like the rigour. IGCSE is a good course taken by many countries (even top private schools in NZ) so you could find a providor and send your kids there.

IB is also good.

Wave the Sails

Aaah, you see this is the problem. Affordability leading to elitism perhaps?

Our local private primary in Dorset was GBP12K p/a (sorry have lost my pound sign somwhere). So, for three boys (so far!) 36K p/a

Secondary was 21K p/a, so again, for three boys 63K p/a. I know it can be less than that it some places though.

We wouldn't manage it.

Wave the Sails

[QUOTE=NKSK version 2;4992162]I'm doing my tax return but I'm really happy to pontificate for a moment...

For me there are three key strands to a successful education system:

1. Discipline in schools
2. A rigorous curriculum which has global currency.
3. Well qualified, skilled teachers.

Sent K for taking the time to respond

Wave the Sails

I think this is an incredibly balanced view.

Come on. Let's hear those dissenting voices

midwife2be

Hi NKSK,

Found your post quite alarming , I'm coming to perth hopefully jan 08(ish) with 2 girls 9 & 13 who both do very well at school here despite all the problems (discipline, crap teaching etc). I too have been told 13 yr old should be gettin a* gcse's and don't want the move to oz to affect her future career (wants to be a vet).

With your 'inside' information could you recommend any perth schools, pm me if you'd rather!! I have a job in Subiaco and am willing to commute 30/60 minutes, hopefully there is at least one decent school within the area??!! Preferably state but am willing to go private if we can afford it

Thanks in advance x

Paul&Nic

I seriously wish we had the money to send our kids to private, but state it was.

Will be viewing new schools next week as they've both slipped drastically since arriving here and recent reports from both were, well embarrassing really ...

Kinda opposite from the UK ones ...

brickies wife

[QUOTE=NKSK version 2;4992162]I'm doing my tax return but I'm really happy to pontificate for a moment...

For me there are three key strands to a successful education system:

1. Discipline in schools
2. A rigorous curriculum which has global currency.
3. Well qualified, skilled teachers.

Discipline
Both the UK and WA have severe problems with this and to be honest I'm not sure which is better or worse. It is very hit and miss here as it is in the UK dependent on the nature of parents in the catchment. I do know that the issue of poor discipline in the UK is being tackled and there have been suggestions of attempts here also.



I am not in a position to dispute what you have to say about the secondary school in WA, but I feel that you are now seeing the teachers in the UK through rose tinted glasses. Yes there is a severe lack of discipline within the schools, and some really poor parents, but you cannot separate the teachers from this. They are all part of the same society, parents/teachers/students, one being no better than the rest.

I was hoping that things would be different in WA, and am very disappointed that they are not, however, there is a good chance I will have the option of sending my kids to a private school in WA, but absolutely no chance in the UK.