guyguy2003

Hi all!

First, let me say that me and alot of australians-to-be from Israel are reading this forum and get alot of good advice and information here. This is probably the best place to hear and talk with people who like us want to find a better future in Australia.

I think i woud like to share my immigration 'adventures' here

I live now in London (yes the place you all so desperatly want to leave.. ), still waiting for my student visa, which i'm going to use until i'll get my oz PR and leave. I love London, I don't like alot of things here (yes yes the bloody weather for example :P) but I got to say, if it was easier to immigrate to England i would probably stay (i dont know where ppl get the impression here its easy, its damn hard), I always loved London and England, I think there is something magic in the air here, I love the English people and the culture, the way people are nice to each other.
The whole attitude of England toward immigration really gets me down, since I am very educated, good skills and I think im a good person and that england whould benefit from me. I hear alot of bad remarks about immigration to England from alot of poms in this forum, and i got to say that i can relate to that in some way, to the asylum immigration anyway, but i think that if the English government would make a system like that in oz, that good well educated professional immigrants are welcome, and others are not, maybe things would have looked different.

I also think alot of you don't really understand what is life in a strugling war zone country, like Israel, where violence is becoming a way of life, coruption is becoming more and more common, people are REALLY depressed about their life, and more common these days, FEAR for their lifes! economy is sliding down the hill in an alarming speed. so NO, I dont think that queues on the M25 or bad weather are a reason to leave a country, and no, i don't think that England is the bad place some of you think it is. you have a great economy, you don't usually kill each other because someone said the wrong thing, your laws are very liberal, and basicly the way of life here is good.

I think that the English people need to look at going to Australia more of an adventure and maybe a good change, and not as 'running away' from England. Australia might be even better for some, but your country is not bad. TRUST ME

cheers and a good weekend to you all!

Guy.

kentcoast

Hi Guy,

Great post, intresting to hear the views of someone from a very different area to usual.

Although I'm in the 'can't wait to get out' group I understand entirely what you're saying, the vast majority of people here wouldn't want to live anywhere else, as recently as two years ago I probably wouldn't either.

But it's time for a change. I don't like what's happening to the country I grew up in, it's more about the changes in our society than the country itself (and no, I'm not talking about asylum seekers etc. Our problems are of our own making).

Of course there are things I'm going to miss (and not just the trivial ones like drinkable beer and watchable TV).

But I'm also looking forward to coming back on trips and rediscovering the country as you have, through the eyes of a visitor. It's happened before, I spent the first twenty years of my life on London, hated it towards the end and couldn't wait to get out. Now I take every opportunity I get to visit and work there (for short periods) and have a great time. The country now is the same, it's too small, too crowded and too miserable (in more ways than one).

Anyway, when are you heading for Oz? Any idea what part?

Cheers

Perry

guyguy2003

No, no idea just yet, i hope to do a big trip in the major cities in australia and then decide, London was also a decision i made after i visited the US and decided that i prefer the british over the yankies It all depends if i'll have money left when i'll be heading to oz, maybe ill need to stay in the first place i'll land (sydney?) and make some money, cause i can only work part time here sadly.

I can relate to your 'change in society' reasons, I decided to leave Israel before the recent war with the palestinians, when people thought we are going to have peace and prosper (I'm also in IT, it was the IT boom in Israel and people had good jobs and got pretty rich - a friend of mine made $150,000(US) just from the stocks he hadm, he could have made more but then came the 'bubble burst').
I really don't like the israeli society, never got used to some aspects in it, so i decided i want to find a new place.

One thing is for sure, i sometime miss Israel like hell, so i'm sure that when you'll get to oz, you'll miss your home as well.
It seems that when we leave a place, we suddenly understand that some of the things we never think about when we are there are important for us. Family, best friends, similar attitude and language.
Right now for me Israel is only 4-5 hours away, and if i want to feel back there, i can always go to the book store in Golders Green hehe
I guess being in Oz would be a different story (being 15-20 hours away). but at least there are sun and sea, the things i most appriciate in Israel.

I hope you could tell me in what ways the English society has changed in the recent decades or even years, its very intresting for me as this is my first major encounter with it.

cheers!


Guy

mashiraz

I like both your attitudes. I agree I won't know what I'll miss till I miss it, and I will appreciate things more than perhaps I do now, about UK.

What has changed in UK over the years if difficult to pin down to any exact thing, it's cumulative and I don't know when and if it started, or whether it's just cus as you grow older you see things differently. My husband is very happy in UK but had a different upbringing, happy school days, and a nice lifestyle now. I want some of that too before I get too old.

One thing I am positive about, I do not want to get old and infirm in the UK, I can't imagine anything more depressing. For me something about warmer climate, fresh air, open spaces will make older age more bearable. Don't know if I'm dreaming or what...

Also I think my kids will have more options than I did if we expose them to wider experiences. It's a global world these days....

Mash..

guyguy2003

Your feelings are correct, sun and warm weather do make a difference.
One thing i told my mum today was that I REALLY miss proper sun and warmth! Its not that we don't have rain and cold in winter, but when its REALLY cold its 3-4 degrees at nite in the mountain areas (and not -4!! sheesh!!) and 10 near the sea (15-17 C day time).
also, it always shine after a few days of rain, for at least 2 days.
(i remember last winter it was really nice, it would rain like hell for 5 days and 2 days of sunshine and warm weather for the weekend)
At least if it would snow! In jerusalem, when it hits -1 it snows and the city becomes so beutiful.. its -2 - -4 here for the next few days and no snow?? this is really disappointing :scared:

I think i actually saw snow for a few seconds yesturday in Romford, a little piece of it landing on the sidewalk, another on the bus window.. and thats it :P

bare in mind tho, where i come from we have a 'brisbane' weather in summer, very hot, very humid, and its not so fun not being able to sleep and sweat in bed, air condition can help, but alot of people think its very bad for your health and your muscles (you might wake up with muscle pains that last all day). So everything has its plus and minus.

kentcoast

Hi guy,

Can you believe that I'm supposed to be an IT expert and yet I replied to your message earlier today, at length and yet forgot to save it, losing the lot...

It's refreshing to hear the views of someone from a different area and it makes all of our problems seem so very trivial in comparison. I cannot imagine what it is like to live permanently in a state of conflict although a few years ago I did have to work for a short time in Northern Ireland on a database project for the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the harrowing experience off being driven around Belfast by a police driver with a gun taped under the dashboard and being greeted on arrival with a list or pubs in which it was considered safe to drink is something that I will not forget.

This is a difficult one. There is no one thing or even a group of things I could put my finger on and say this is what is making me dissatisfied with my life in Britain. In fact I can usually think of plenty of counter arguments against the most common reasons posted on this forum. I think Mash is right when he says that it is the cumulative effect of many things.

I‘m no social scientist and I don't want to repeat too much of what I've already said in other threads but I am a child of the sixties and the four decades that I have lived through so far have been times of considerable social and political change in the UK. And whether for good or bad those times have captured the imagination and made me feel part of what was going on. But now as we enter into what you rightly describe as a period of some stability, economically, socially and politically we have the chance to pause, draw breath and look around and I think that many of us, whether consciously or not don't like what we see.

One other illustration of this that I have mentioned before - If anyone wants to understand what I consider the main problems with the country today, they only have to look at the Daily Express newspaper for one week. I don't of course mean the contents of the articles themselves but the attitudes represented. As you read the contents of this nasty, small-minded, insular and xenophobic paper which is aimed square at heart of Middle England remember that the proprietor is a supporter of the current government and a friend of the PM and you will probably understand some of the reasons for the queues to leave.

Finally, a point that was made by mash in his post and one that I feel carries a lot of weight and that should be considered, particularly by those who are considering a return to the UK: Is this really a to country in which would like to grow into an old person?

Sorry about getting a little heavy here, I try not to get involved in conversations like this until at least the second brandy after a good meal (you know, that time when we all try to put the world to rights) and I promise not to get too serious for a least another week.

All the best
Perry

guyguy2003

I mean, the british people are lucky to be apart of the EU and can immigrate to any country, get all the rights of work, health etc.
Immigrtaion to Australia is a very long and hard process for all of us, why not just leave to a nice place in the EU? Its always a shock for me to see how many of the british prefer going through this time, money and patience consuming stage, when they have so many other options (14 other options to be exact ).
You also stay in europe so the move is easier and can always come for frequent visits (its so cheap! )

mashiraz

Brits traditionnaly lazy about learning to speak other lanuages would be my guess. Lots (and lots) retire to Spain...we are actually a minority...

Mash...

kentcoast

I agree. The number of different cultures on our doorstep is one of the things that I'm going to miss the most. But unfortunately most of Europe is just more of the same. I spend an increasing amount of my time working in France these days and while there is as certain appeal and there are few places in the world that I enjoy as much for a holiday it doesn't provide what I want in a place to live. The same is true for most of the rest of Europe. Many of my friends are looking at France, Spain and Portugal as places to retire to and I can appreciate that but nobody that I know of is actually looking at mainland Europe as a place to work.

In short, Europe is no longer foreign, as much as it upsets the ‘Little Englanders’ we are part of the United States of Europe. Australia has the advantage of being a clean break, a very long way away but with strong cultural ties to good old G B. Adelaide, where I'm heading has often been described as Surrey with sunshine.

Perry

guyguy2003

Spanish is so easy, i saw too many episodes of telenovelas so I know alot of words, mostly:
"Porke horhe luis porke miaammoorree ppoorrrkkee..."
(crystal crying over horhe luis - 400 episodes).
I find Russian easy to learn as well but its no suprise we have 20% of the population now russian immigrants in Israel so its the second langauge now.
(first in some areas).
I think its an adventure to learn a new language in a forgien country, i actually have an australian housem8 from sydney who lived for 6 months in Germany before coming here and he KNOWS german!!
he speaks with my german housem8 in German!!!!

:scared:

guyguy2003

How did you choose Adelaide?
And have you been to australia before?
From what i read and hear Adelaide sounds like a really good place to live, but there are so many options in australia its really hard to decide!

mashiraz

We have friends in Adelaide and have visited them 3 times, also been to Cairns, Sydney and Melbourne. I saw nothing in the other places I preferred more than Adelaide. It's a small place, but well designed with parkland all around the city. The suburbs are starting to sprawl but are limited on one side by the sea and mountains the other. Lots of property on one side has views towards the city or the sea.

Large corporate companies are missing although most have a distribution centre or state office there, but it means certain jobs are limited.

The Barossa Valley is lovely for it's wines and rolling countryside.

Aaaahh, Wish I was there...
Mash..

guyguy2003

I see alot of ppl going to cairns when they are in australia, i wonder why since its very far away from everywhere and small, whats special about it?
Adelaide sounds lovely! I am in IT (programmer) so i don't know whats the situation there regarding IT, but hey I could change my career!! hehe also wonder how is the gay culture, i'm bi and its important for me to be in a place where its nice for gays and gays are nice

mashiraz

No idea on the gay thing, I though Sydney was gay capital of the world, but I imagine it's the same as anywhere.

For that matter no idea on the IT thing either, smaller companies so probably less opportunity, depends what you are into.

Cairns is just adventure, scuba and tourism in the rainforests/daintree and the reef. Good for a while but small town.

Mash..

guyguy2003

Oh i wish i was there already... I can't wait... i actually had a dream a few nites ago that i'm in Sydney, and not for the first time (thats how i felt in the dream) and i can't go to other places! because i dont have time!!!
If I had some more money maybe i would go there, for a visit.
anybody has some spare 1500 pounds maybe?