So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Oct 25th 2017, 5:25 am
#91
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
1. What was your profession and seniority when you arrived in Australia?
2. Where did you come from and which city did you settle in Australia?
3. How long did it take for you to secure a job in your field and was your first/2nd/3rd job and salary in line your skill level?
4. If the job in your early days wasn't ideal, did you eventually find a job that commensurate with your level and experience? If yes, how long did it take?
5. And lastly, was it worth it for yourself/family, after all the sweat/tears? Did Australia live up to your dreams, and is it indeed the better life you had hoped for yourself and family?
I suppose I am trying to gain courage from all those who have gone before me. When I read that highly experience professionals finally landing a job...as a clerk, flipping pizzas.....even construction site, my heart grew faint. If those are just temporary measures, that might be doable, but I wonder if some migrants ever get a chance to build their career again
1) it's irrelevant to moving to aus.
2) lived in a few cities around the world... moved to the sunshine coast
3) had a job in hours of arriving. was receiving calls at all hours of the night before I even left home with job offers... I arrived in 2005. If you didn't have work then it was because you didn't want to work.
4) what became very apparent living here was that bosses are not like what I have experience prior. I lived in the UK, USA and Canada before Aus. What I often felt here was there was an undercurrent of animosity that management had towards the staff where ever I worked. In the early years it was hard to put a finger on it, but it was certainly there. I think it has a lot to do with aussies being so cheap. Wages here are relatively high (so is the cost of living) here and I think it comes down to bosses feeling the need to punish their staff as a result. Kinda like christians are cheap and wont leave a tip in restaurants because they resent having to tithe... I had a few jobs in me industry, trying to find a decent boss... One day I came home and said to my wife I would rather top myself if I have to continue in this work in this country... 10 years, two degrees and a grad dip later, I am still trying to find my feet. What I discovered is if you are a non-aussie you will be discriminated against. I have personally heard bosses say to staff that were born here but their parent weren't say they weren't aussies... If you are over 35 you are considered too old. I know, because I have been told 4 times in my job search that I am too old, twice in writing... This is by far the hardest country I have found to gain a footing and to get on with life.
5)I'll start with the stats. Not a hard and fast opinion but it is based on 12 years of delving into why it works for some and not for most... If you are normal and from a western nation you most likely will leave within 5 years... If you are from the UK my estimate is that 60-70% will leave, if you are from North America at least 90% will leave, and from the rest of Europe I'd say at least 95% will leave... Most people sticking it out here are from developing or 3rd world nations, after all what do they have to return to... Where as those from a fully developed nation say it's better back home. Overall the odds are you will not like aus and will eventually leave.
This is where it gets complicated. If you and your spouse are like chalk and cheese you will find serious problems arising after a couple years which will test your marriage to the limit. I've seen quite a few marriages fail because one is loving it and the other is developing a serous dislike for it. The one loving it doesn't want to discuss the others struggles and it ends up the other picks up and leaves. My observations are: it seems children and women adapt better than men. I think aussie women and children are less xenophobic than aussie men.
If you are like two peas in a pod you will both either love it or hate it. Which means you will either stay and say life is grand or you will together hate it and leave sooner rather than later.
From all I have seen in the past 12 years I would not in good conscious ever endorse anyone from a western nation move to Australia. On average it just doesn't work out. If you want an adventure that only last a couple years then yes go for your life, but get out before it impacts on your relationship. In other words don't give up your life else where - have an exit strategy in place.
For me personally... Today I hit a brick wall - hard. I only came across this post because I have hit my limit and I need to find answers. The dilemma is, who do you seek out to get advise from. How do you frame: I don't like you or your country but can you help me... At this point the way I see it is I have three options: I try to stick it out, get medicated to the point that I am a functioning comatose patient. I leave, but there's no guarantee that geography will fix my deep depression and financially it will be devastating. Or I simply end it. I even checked my super insurance and apparently if I top myself they would still have to pay out... So there was one positive to the day...
2. Where did you come from and which city did you settle in Australia?
3. How long did it take for you to secure a job in your field and was your first/2nd/3rd job and salary in line your skill level?
4. If the job in your early days wasn't ideal, did you eventually find a job that commensurate with your level and experience? If yes, how long did it take?
5. And lastly, was it worth it for yourself/family, after all the sweat/tears? Did Australia live up to your dreams, and is it indeed the better life you had hoped for yourself and family?
I suppose I am trying to gain courage from all those who have gone before me. When I read that highly experience professionals finally landing a job...as a clerk, flipping pizzas.....even construction site, my heart grew faint. If those are just temporary measures, that might be doable, but I wonder if some migrants ever get a chance to build their career again
1) it's irrelevant to moving to aus.
2) lived in a few cities around the world... moved to the sunshine coast
3) had a job in hours of arriving. was receiving calls at all hours of the night before I even left home with job offers... I arrived in 2005. If you didn't have work then it was because you didn't want to work.
4) what became very apparent living here was that bosses are not like what I have experience prior. I lived in the UK, USA and Canada before Aus. What I often felt here was there was an undercurrent of animosity that management had towards the staff where ever I worked. In the early years it was hard to put a finger on it, but it was certainly there. I think it has a lot to do with aussies being so cheap. Wages here are relatively high (so is the cost of living) here and I think it comes down to bosses feeling the need to punish their staff as a result. Kinda like christians are cheap and wont leave a tip in restaurants because they resent having to tithe... I had a few jobs in me industry, trying to find a decent boss... One day I came home and said to my wife I would rather top myself if I have to continue in this work in this country... 10 years, two degrees and a grad dip later, I am still trying to find my feet. What I discovered is if you are a non-aussie you will be discriminated against. I have personally heard bosses say to staff that were born here but their parent weren't say they weren't aussies... If you are over 35 you are considered too old. I know, because I have been told 4 times in my job search that I am too old, twice in writing... This is by far the hardest country I have found to gain a footing and to get on with life.
5)I'll start with the stats. Not a hard and fast opinion but it is based on 12 years of delving into why it works for some and not for most... If you are normal and from a western nation you most likely will leave within 5 years... If you are from the UK my estimate is that 60-70% will leave, if you are from North America at least 90% will leave, and from the rest of Europe I'd say at least 95% will leave... Most people sticking it out here are from developing or 3rd world nations, after all what do they have to return to... Where as those from a fully developed nation say it's better back home. Overall the odds are you will not like aus and will eventually leave.
This is where it gets complicated. If you and your spouse are like chalk and cheese you will find serious problems arising after a couple years which will test your marriage to the limit. I've seen quite a few marriages fail because one is loving it and the other is developing a serous dislike for it. The one loving it doesn't want to discuss the others struggles and it ends up the other picks up and leaves. My observations are: it seems children and women adapt better than men. I think aussie women and children are less xenophobic than aussie men.
If you are like two peas in a pod you will both either love it or hate it. Which means you will either stay and say life is grand or you will together hate it and leave sooner rather than later.
From all I have seen in the past 12 years I would not in good conscious ever endorse anyone from a western nation move to Australia. On average it just doesn't work out. If you want an adventure that only last a couple years then yes go for your life, but get out before it impacts on your relationship. In other words don't give up your life else where - have an exit strategy in place.
For me personally... Today I hit a brick wall - hard. I only came across this post because I have hit my limit and I need to find answers. The dilemma is, who do you seek out to get advise from. How do you frame: I don't like you or your country but can you help me... At this point the way I see it is I have three options: I try to stick it out, get medicated to the point that I am a functioning comatose patient. I leave, but there's no guarantee that geography will fix my deep depression and financially it will be devastating. Or I simply end it. I even checked my super insurance and apparently if I top myself they would still have to pay out... So there was one positive to the day...
The bullying once too evident has largely diminished, thanks mostly to the law more subtle forms in place for white collar jobs at least. I'm afraid on the blue collar front racial bullying was still in evidence a few years back.
I thought at first you were from a non English speaking background as in European. Rereading your past countries of work experience, this is probably not the case. If it wasn't though, this is a very hard country for a European professional. Nearly all I have been acquainted with have indeed left. Most indeed did not come to Australia out of necessity. Unlike South Africans fleeing crime or British tradesmen escaping low wages, Europeans by and large came out for other challenges and not of the economic kind in general.
I'd say the writing on the packet certainly did not live up to the reality. Probably a reason few bother to come to Australia and prefer USA if wanting 'out' at all.
Europe offers a far better pension. Medical services depending on where, better as well. The cities are far more as cities should be with cultural and huge variety on hand.
Europeans tend to speak out more than Australians as well as less inclined to accept what goes on .....
Australia prefers a more passive work force. Asian people in general do tend to be more inclined not to rock the boat and accept. Those on temp visa's as well regardless of place of origin, are not well placed to do much about their conditions either.
Now it is a very different proposition for those that arrived here last century for example. We could buy exceptionally cheap. Cash in many instances, as the difference was rather substantial indeed between property prices in London/Europe cities and Australia. Perth in particular was a steal. Regardless of higher interest rates at the time, on average salaries it was easy.
Those days are gone. I would be most unlikely to live in Australia these days, prices have gone through the roof. Going out here, especially Perth, is very expensive indeed. Poor results in the main as well.
If you are debt free. Own your own house and have other means of income then okay. It is very important for own emotional and mental state not to be dependant on others here.
You are certainly far from the first, or even anywhere near it, to feel what you do. Really get yourself to counselling for starters before going on any medication. Ascertain what is doable in your individual situation. A change of environment? A return to where you originated. It sure is costly but peace of mind over money any day.
Just get talking first to someone that can point you in the direction you need to be heading.
Oct 25th 2017, 7:38 am
#92
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
But they still charge $18 for a bloody sandwich and coffee. WTF. Yep screw Perth. They say Sydney is expensive - Not like Perth.
Oct 25th 2017, 11:22 am
#93
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Agree in the area of management it is very poor. A revolving door in many areas including CEO's. I've seen them relieved on duty as well as disappear from one day to the next.
The bullying once too evident has largely diminished, thanks mostly to the law more subtle forms in place for white collar jobs at least. I'm afraid on the blue collar front racial bullying was still in evidence a few years back.
I thought at first you were from a non English speaking background as in European. Rereading your past countries of work experience, this is probably not the case. If it wasn't though, this is a very hard country for a European professional. Nearly all I have been acquainted with have indeed left. Most indeed did not come to Australia out of necessity. Unlike South Africans fleeing crime or British tradesmen escaping low wages, Europeans by and large came out for other challenges and not of the economic kind in general.
I'd say the writing on the packet certainly did not live up to the reality. Probably a reason few bother to come to Australia and prefer USA if wanting 'out' at all.
Europe offers a far better pension. Medical services depending on where, better as well. The cities are far more as cities should be with cultural and huge variety on hand.
Europeans tend to speak out more than Australians as well as less inclined to accept what goes on .....
Australia prefers a more passive work force. Asian people in general do tend to be more inclined not to rock the boat and accept. Those on temp visa's as well regardless of place of origin, are not well placed to do much about their conditions either.
Now it is a very different proposition for those that arrived here last century for example. We could buy exceptionally cheap. Cash in many instances, as the difference was rather substantial indeed between property prices in London/Europe cities and Australia. Perth in particular was a steal. Regardless of higher interest rates at the time, on average salaries it was easy.
Those days are gone. I would be most unlikely to live in Australia these days, prices have gone through the roof. Going out here, especially Perth, is very expensive indeed. Poor results in the main as well.
If you are debt free. Own your own house and have other means of income then okay. It is very important for own emotional and mental state not to be dependant on others here.
You are certainly far from the first, or even anywhere near it, to feel what you do. Really get yourself to counselling for starters before going on any medication. Ascertain what is doable in your individual situation. A change of environment? A return to where you originated. It sure is costly but peace of mind over money any day.
Just get talking first to someone that can point you in the direction you need to be heading.
The bullying once too evident has largely diminished, thanks mostly to the law more subtle forms in place for white collar jobs at least. I'm afraid on the blue collar front racial bullying was still in evidence a few years back.
I thought at first you were from a non English speaking background as in European. Rereading your past countries of work experience, this is probably not the case. If it wasn't though, this is a very hard country for a European professional. Nearly all I have been acquainted with have indeed left. Most indeed did not come to Australia out of necessity. Unlike South Africans fleeing crime or British tradesmen escaping low wages, Europeans by and large came out for other challenges and not of the economic kind in general.
I'd say the writing on the packet certainly did not live up to the reality. Probably a reason few bother to come to Australia and prefer USA if wanting 'out' at all.
Europe offers a far better pension. Medical services depending on where, better as well. The cities are far more as cities should be with cultural and huge variety on hand.
Europeans tend to speak out more than Australians as well as less inclined to accept what goes on .....
Australia prefers a more passive work force. Asian people in general do tend to be more inclined not to rock the boat and accept. Those on temp visa's as well regardless of place of origin, are not well placed to do much about their conditions either.
Now it is a very different proposition for those that arrived here last century for example. We could buy exceptionally cheap. Cash in many instances, as the difference was rather substantial indeed between property prices in London/Europe cities and Australia. Perth in particular was a steal. Regardless of higher interest rates at the time, on average salaries it was easy.
Those days are gone. I would be most unlikely to live in Australia these days, prices have gone through the roof. Going out here, especially Perth, is very expensive indeed. Poor results in the main as well.
If you are debt free. Own your own house and have other means of income then okay. It is very important for own emotional and mental state not to be dependant on others here.
You are certainly far from the first, or even anywhere near it, to feel what you do. Really get yourself to counselling for starters before going on any medication. Ascertain what is doable in your individual situation. A change of environment? A return to where you originated. It sure is costly but peace of mind over money any day.
Just get talking first to someone that can point you in the direction you need to be heading.
Plenty of culture here.. I'm going to a small 'club'fund raiser where half the guest stars have performed internationally and literally at the top of their game..best in country and up there in Europe too..one is the grandson of one of the most famous Australians to have ever lived and is practically otherwise unknown..to the general public..
It seems that the people who complain about culture have very little knowledge or exposure..
It's very hard to get to the US so I don't see that either..
Its a funny old world..
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Oct 25th 2017 at 11:28 am.
Oct 25th 2017, 8:35 pm
#94
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Agree that AU is expensive but many professionals do well..unless you are talking about middle of the road white collar battler semi-prof former Natwest bank clerks or shop managers.. .I don't see it.
Plenty of culture here.. I'm going to a small 'club'fund raiser where half the guest stars have performed internationally and literally at the top of their game..best in country and up there in Europe too..one is the grandson of one of the most famous Australians to have ever lived and is practically otherwise unknown..to the general public..
It seems that the people who complain about culture have very little knowledge or exposure..
It's very hard to get to the US so I don't see that either..
Its a funny old world..
Plenty of culture here.. I'm going to a small 'club'fund raiser where half the guest stars have performed internationally and literally at the top of their game..best in country and up there in Europe too..one is the grandson of one of the most famous Australians to have ever lived and is practically otherwise unknown..to the general public..
It seems that the people who complain about culture have very little knowledge or exposure..
It's very hard to get to the US so I don't see that either..
Its a funny old world..
Yes there's little British culture and thank heavens for that. If you want British culture, head to Britain.
I scratch my head every time the culture thing comes up.
Oct 25th 2017, 11:08 pm
#95
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
I am in Perth for a few days this week. Its been a while. Not had the need to come since the mining boom fell over and the eastern states can't get enough of infrastructure projects.
But they still charge $18 for a bloody sandwich and coffee. WTF. Yep screw Perth. They say Sydney is expensive - Not like Perth.
But they still charge $18 for a bloody sandwich and coffee. WTF. Yep screw Perth. They say Sydney is expensive - Not like Perth.
Shame about the high mortgages a lot of folk we know have to service. But besides that I do like the vibe in Sydney.
Oct 26th 2017, 5:38 am
#96
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Quite. Yet the punters pay up. Do agree been to Sydney twice this year and found eating/socialising outside a far preferable and yes cheaper experience, in the main, than what is found in Perth and Regional WA.
Shame about the high mortgages a lot of folk we know have to service. But besides that I do like the vibe in Sydney.
Shame about the high mortgages a lot of folk we know have to service. But besides that I do like the vibe in Sydney.
WA, Vic and Queensland suffer from more morgtage stress.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-03/mortgage-stress-putting-thousands-of-australians-at-risk/8493054
WA - Mandurah, Wanneroo, Canning Vale, Beeliar
VIC - Derrimut, Point Cook, Werribee, Cranbourne, Craigieburn
QLD - Mackay, Carrara, Nerang, Hervey Bay, Toowoomba
Oct 26th 2017, 9:34 am
#97
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
There's loads of Anglo culture handed down from British culture in AU.
(And Italian, Greek etc)
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Oct 26th 2017 at 9:37 am.
Oct 26th 2017, 9:43 am
#98
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Mortgages can't be that high.
WA, Vic and Queensland suffer from more morgtage stress.
Severe mortgage stress puts 52,000 Australian households at risk of defaulting, analyst says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
WA - Mandurah, Wanneroo, Canning Vale, Beeliar
VIC - Derrimut, Point Cook, Werribee, Cranbourne, Craigieburn
QLD - Mackay, Carrara, Nerang, Hervey Bay, Toowoomba
WA, Vic and Queensland suffer from more morgtage stress.
Severe mortgage stress puts 52,000 Australian households at risk of defaulting, analyst says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
WA - Mandurah, Wanneroo, Canning Vale, Beeliar
VIC - Derrimut, Point Cook, Werribee, Cranbourne, Craigieburn
QLD - Mackay, Carrara, Nerang, Hervey Bay, Toowoomba
Yes I am aware of the postcodes where mortgage stress is most evident. If people are stressed now, they should never have been given a loan. I think we all are aware of the reasons.
Oct 26th 2017, 10:36 am
#99
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Well at least in one case, they are paying off as fast as possible with the belief that interest rates will rise in the future.
Yes I am aware of the postcodes where mortgage stress is most evident. If people are stressed now, they should never have been given a loan. I think we all are aware of the reasons.
Yes I am aware of the postcodes where mortgage stress is most evident. If people are stressed now, they should never have been given a loan. I think we all are aware of the reasons.
But yes, lots of bad loans out there motoring along just fine and dandy.
Oct 29th 2017, 12:43 am
#100
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 6,775
Re: So was it worth it after all the sweat/tears?
Not a great situation to be in by any measurement and should have been taken in hand years ago.
The lack of will to do something constructive years ago and the bad loans will motor until they are thrown to the wolves, in a matter of speaking, with increasing interest rates. Of course it may be deferred a little longer. Not sure 2018 will be the year of two rate rises some sources are advocating. Wage growth is too small. In fact if it wasn't for the housing market being in such a situation, rates of course could have been lowered, in order to stimulate growth and inflate the economy.
All in all housing is a major pull on the economy.
