Snobbery and class - another take
Oct 24th 2003, 2:03 am
#61
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,666
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by downunderpom
Sounds like a smart move. I think I've said elsewhere that I'm the uncle type - take 'em off the parent's hands for a while, (give the parents a break, too!) have a whale of a time, then hand them back when I'm bored. Everybody wins!
Sounds like a smart move. I think I've said elsewhere that I'm the uncle type - take 'em off the parent's hands for a while, (give the parents a break, too!) have a whale of a time, then hand them back when I'm bored. Everybody wins!
You are clever!!
The only down side to all this is not seeing them and missing my grandchildren growing up. Probably the only thing i miss about UK now. But they are all coming for a visit in March...
Oct 24th 2003, 2:06 am
#62
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by podgypossum
You are clever!!
The only down side to all this is not seeing them and missing my grandchildren growing up. Probably the only thing i miss about UK now. But they are all coming for a visit in March...
You are clever!!
The only down side to all this is not seeing them and missing my grandchildren growing up. Probably the only thing i miss about UK now. But they are all coming for a visit in March...
Ahh!! Revenge! So sweet!
Oct 24th 2003, 2:21 am
#63
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by dotty
So so true. Everywhere in every part of OZ you will get the same batch of personalities that life will throw out anywhere.
You cant just say because its a country town everyone will be happy and friendly, the reality is many will have severe social and emotional problems caused by isolation, unemployment or poverty. Same applies to your flashest suburbs and gated communites, whos to say half the residents are not high as a kite on valium or worse and beating the heck out of the wife or kids.
This pedalstal image of OZ is ridiculous really, we have every kind of human defect here just like everywhere else. Blue sky does not wash that away. Wherever you go there will be good and bad people and places, nobody would write all this pedestal stuff about the UK, USA, Canada because it would be too bizzare for words. Anyone whos been here knows we have all the same problems as anywhere else.
So so true. Everywhere in every part of OZ you will get the same batch of personalities that life will throw out anywhere.
You cant just say because its a country town everyone will be happy and friendly, the reality is many will have severe social and emotional problems caused by isolation, unemployment or poverty. Same applies to your flashest suburbs and gated communites, whos to say half the residents are not high as a kite on valium or worse and beating the heck out of the wife or kids.
This pedalstal image of OZ is ridiculous really, we have every kind of human defect here just like everywhere else. Blue sky does not wash that away. Wherever you go there will be good and bad people and places, nobody would write all this pedestal stuff about the UK, USA, Canada because it would be too bizzare for words. Anyone whos been here knows we have all the same problems as anywhere else.
A lot of peoples problems with the UK could be solved by moving to a different area of the UK. There is then no need to be away from family and life starts again.
A lot of people also do find better lives down under.
I do wonder why some people automatically think that life will be better in OZ than the UK. It will be interesting speaking back in the UK and see what their reactions to Oz. There is also the Ignorant type in the UK that think Oz is full of uncultured hoons with no taste and would never contemplate even a trip down under.
Oct 24th 2003, 7:10 am
#64
Dutch expat/Aus citizen
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: South East, Perth (was Holland)
Posts: 5,789
Originally posted by downunderpom
Pete I think you've hit the nail on the head - the cities in Oz are where most imports come to, and they seem to bring their baggage with them. It really gets under my skin that people come to Oz for 'a better life' and then try to set things up so that they are exactly the way the were where they came from! I mean, why bloody bother if you're just looking for the same as you had? I live and work in Sydney, but I'm only really happy when we head up to the mountains and spend time at 'home'. All of our neighbours are true Aussies, of the 'give you the shirt off their backs' variety. THAT is what I came back to Oz for, and it's why I'll spend the rest of my life here.
P.S. Heard from the council yesreday that the plans for our (self-designed) house have been approved! Yippee! Now the real work starts.
Pete I think you've hit the nail on the head - the cities in Oz are where most imports come to, and they seem to bring their baggage with them. It really gets under my skin that people come to Oz for 'a better life' and then try to set things up so that they are exactly the way the were where they came from! I mean, why bloody bother if you're just looking for the same as you had? I live and work in Sydney, but I'm only really happy when we head up to the mountains and spend time at 'home'. All of our neighbours are true Aussies, of the 'give you the shirt off their backs' variety. THAT is what I came back to Oz for, and it's why I'll spend the rest of my life here.
P.S. Heard from the council yesreday that the plans for our (self-designed) house have been approved! Yippee! Now the real work starts.
Our last bit of the trip was as follows:
3 days Brisbane city (we didn't have a car, so didn't get out)
3 days Sydney city
1 day Blue Mountains
1 day Sydney
2 days Brisbane - fly home
(we first weren't planning on going to Sydney)
Any way, the point of this:
After 6 days of only being in city, it was SO SO SO great to be in the country(blue mountains) again!
That's when we really realised we liked the country more!
We drove up the hills(with a tour, oh well) and stopped in a little town to get something at the bakery, oh it was great, just the whole small town thing, fresh air, nature.
We really realised that we did like cities, but just for a while!
Oh, and about the pedestal thing: I don't think anybody in THIS thread is really doing that. We just realise Oz has some qualities which will suit us better. I'm quite sure everybody in here knows that there's the same probs anywhere, well I do. And I'm not leaving NL because I hate it so much here. And even if I did, then I know that Aus is definetly not perfect.
There are some good things about Aussie's in my opinion like A BIT less materialistic (I'm generalising by the way, I know there's heaps who will be just the same as here).
Another generalsing thing about Aussie's is that they're are sporty. Well, that maybe a good thing to some, but not to us, so we probably won't fit in in that departement.
The thing is, I think everybody in this thread is right, first of all, we're all saying practically the same, and secondly, if it's your opinion, your're always right, because if that's the way you see it, that's the way you see it, if ya get what I mean! lol
Oct 24th 2003, 9:10 am
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by bondipom
A lot depends on where you live and what you want out of life. You are right that all the problems happen here but they all happen in different degrees and affect people in different places and in different ways.
A lot of peoples problems with the UK could be solved by moving to a different area of the UK. There is then no need to be away from family and life starts again.
A lot of people also do find better lives down under.
I do wonder why some people automatically think that life will be better in OZ than the UK. It will be interesting speaking back in the UK and see what their reactions to Oz. There is also the Ignorant type in the UK that think Oz is full of uncultured hoons with no taste and would never contemplate even a trip down under.
A lot depends on where you live and what you want out of life. You are right that all the problems happen here but they all happen in different degrees and affect people in different places and in different ways.
A lot of peoples problems with the UK could be solved by moving to a different area of the UK. There is then no need to be away from family and life starts again.
A lot of people also do find better lives down under.
I do wonder why some people automatically think that life will be better in OZ than the UK. It will be interesting speaking back in the UK and see what their reactions to Oz. There is also the Ignorant type in the UK that think Oz is full of uncultured hoons with no taste and would never contemplate even a trip down under.
I am still trying to work out what a pedestal image of Australia is and who has it?TennisOz
Oct 24th 2003, 11:38 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Snobbery and class - another take
Originally posted by bundy
When I pitched up there, I was straight out of Cambridge University with a first class honours degree - something the uni people here told us would be a passport to anywhere. Say 'I went to Cambridge' to someone from Nundle and they'd say 'that's nice, I've been to Armidale'.
When I pitched up there, I was straight out of Cambridge University with a first class honours degree - something the uni people here told us would be a passport to anywhere. Say 'I went to Cambridge' to someone from Nundle and they'd say 'that's nice, I've been to Armidale'.
Bundy, I can just picture it - 'Pom' says I went to Australia; Ocker pauses and replies I've been to Armidale!
Reminds me of that brilliant ad (to an Aussie) for Fosters starring 'Hoges'. Cut to a quaint picture postcard English village and there are some Morris Dancers. Pom says to Hoges 'that's Morris dancing'. Hoges pauses and says 'which one is Maurice?'
TennisOz
Oct 24th 2003, 11:40 am
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Snobbery and class - another take
Originally posted by tennisoz
Bundy, I can just picture it - 'Pom' says I went to Australia; Ocker pauses and replies I've been to Armidale!
Reminds me of that brilliant ad (to an Aussie) for Fosters starring 'Hoges'. Cut to a quaint picture postcard English village and there are some Morris Dancers. Pom says to Hoges 'that's Morris dancing'. Hoges pauses and says 'which one is Maurice?'
TennisOz
Bundy, I can just picture it - 'Pom' says I went to Australia; Ocker pauses and replies I've been to Armidale!
Reminds me of that brilliant ad (to an Aussie) for Fosters starring 'Hoges'. Cut to a quaint picture postcard English village and there are some Morris Dancers. Pom says to Hoges 'that's Morris dancing'. Hoges pauses and says 'which one is Maurice?'
TennisOz
TennisOz
Oct 24th 2003, 1:16 pm
#68
home again, home again
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Notts to Perth, Perth to Notts
Posts: 1,748
Originally posted by Jirrupin
A few weeks ago there was a young girl on the news who had been turned down for a job as a hairdresser because she was not pretty enough. So be warned all would be hairdressers out there
A few weeks ago there was a young girl on the news who had been turned down for a job as a hairdresser because she was not pretty enough. So be warned all would be hairdressers out there
She did go back and got the job, don't think I would have bothered!!
Oct 24th 2003, 1:45 pm
#69
Home in 2010.
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: UK-Holland-OZ-UK-OZ-2010 Back to UK
Posts: 664
Originally posted by janeyray
A friend of mine went for an interview for a receptionist job. She is a lovely looking lady who had dyed her hair and the roots were showing through a tiny bit. (knowing the price of hairdressers here I'am not suprised) She was told that if she did something about her hair they would have her back for a second interview!!!
She did go back and got the job, don't think I would have bothered!!
A friend of mine went for an interview for a receptionist job. She is a lovely looking lady who had dyed her hair and the roots were showing through a tiny bit. (knowing the price of hairdressers here I'am not suprised) She was told that if she did something about her hair they would have her back for a second interview!!!
She did go back and got the job, don't think I would have bothered!!
Oct 25th 2003, 1:46 pm
#70
Home in 2010.
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: UK-Holland-OZ-UK-OZ-2010 Back to UK
Posts: 664
Re: Snobbery and class - another take
Originally posted by badgersmount
In the UK, everyone seems to be looking to improve materialistically to the same script. Even the poorest go out to Ikea, MFi to get the ensuite, new table, when they could get a packing crate instead. Everyone wants to be middle class. Apart from the middle classes; they want to be mockney cockneys along with the accent.
In Sydney, Straya I met young professional couples with old seats from airplanes as their furniture. I go into homes on "rough" housing estates in the UK and still find all the latest wide screen, 3 piece suite etc, wall to wall carpet etc.
My mate is a business manager and they have a covered pallet as their table - great stuff. At least they are not in debt.
badge
In the UK, everyone seems to be looking to improve materialistically to the same script. Even the poorest go out to Ikea, MFi to get the ensuite, new table, when they could get a packing crate instead. Everyone wants to be middle class. Apart from the middle classes; they want to be mockney cockneys along with the accent.
In Sydney, Straya I met young professional couples with old seats from airplanes as their furniture. I go into homes on "rough" housing estates in the UK and still find all the latest wide screen, 3 piece suite etc, wall to wall carpet etc.
My mate is a business manager and they have a covered pallet as their table - great stuff. At least they are not in debt.
badge
As for Ikea just makes things affordable to more people. It is not my style, everything in Ikea can be seen on Eastenders from the Queen Vic upstairs, to Billy and Mo's place, puts me off. But have had stuff from there in the past and why not.
Please do not think this is a knock badge against you, its just that I do not know what you have against improvement in house or having the best. The most genorous of people from my experience are those who have little, but have met some of the nicest people who have a million in the bank and big houses, 3 cars etc...
Oct 25th 2003, 9:00 pm
#71
(Jon) returning to NZ 04
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 816
yeah but I think Badge's point is that it's more acceptable to use airline seats or a pallet or whatever in aus than it is in the UK - if you want to
nothing wrong with wanting the best - but there are parts of the world where people happily make do with less and are less worried about how they appear to others. (not saying you are)
SE England is not one - parts of Sydney and Auckland are not one - but in somewhere like Isle of Wight is, and is many parts of Aus or NZ.
I would say there more places like this in Aus/NZ than in the UK - where people have different priorities.
I think you point about indoors vs outdoors is good one. There is a much a greater emphasis in the UK on the indoors - downunder the flow to the outdoors, your deck, your garden, big windows etc are much more important.
nothing wrong with wanting the best - but there are parts of the world where people happily make do with less and are less worried about how they appear to others. (not saying you are)
SE England is not one - parts of Sydney and Auckland are not one - but in somewhere like Isle of Wight is, and is many parts of Aus or NZ.
I would say there more places like this in Aus/NZ than in the UK - where people have different priorities.
I think you point about indoors vs outdoors is good one. There is a much a greater emphasis in the UK on the indoors - downunder the flow to the outdoors, your deck, your garden, big windows etc are much more important.
Oct 25th 2003, 10:34 pm
#72
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Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Perth we were.Back in the uuuk
Posts: 355
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by downunderpom
Sounds like a smart move. I think I've said elsewhere that I'm the uncle type - take 'em off the parent's hands for a while, (give the parents a break, too!) have a whale of a time, then hand them back when I'm bored. Everybody wins!
Sounds like a smart move. I think I've said elsewhere that I'm the uncle type - take 'em off the parent's hands for a while, (give the parents a break, too!) have a whale of a time, then hand them back when I'm bored. Everybody wins!
they can be with you by the 9th I'll get them to e-mail you 2morrow
Oct 25th 2003, 11:10 pm
#73
I like kittens.
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 1,457
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by chris hogan
I've just told mine(5 by the way) they have an uncle downunderpom near Sydney,we fly to Perth on the 8 nov Steve
they can be with you by the 9th I'll get them to e-mail you 2morrow
I've just told mine(5 by the way) they have an uncle downunderpom near Sydney,we fly to Perth on the 8 nov Steve
they can be with you by the 9th I'll get them to e-mail you 2morrow
Oh, damn! I just checked my diary, and I'm off to Outer Uncle Bulgaria for a month.......
Oct 25th 2003, 11:27 pm
#74
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Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Perth we were.Back in the uuuk
Posts: 355
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by downunderpom
Great!!!
Oh, damn! I just checked my diary, and I'm off to Outer Uncle Bulgaria for a month.......
Great!!!
Oh, damn! I just checked my diary, and I'm off to Outer Uncle Bulgaria for a month.......
R.O.T.F.L.
Oct 25th 2003, 11:50 pm
#75
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 805
Re: a little bit political
I've seen both sides of the class system within my immediate family.
My sister is the one who buys regularly from the Not Quite Right shop, scours the papers for all the clothes, toys, food when it's on special, and is happy to accept hand me downs from family and friends.
Her husband scours the streets when it's hard rubbish removal time and comes home with lots of things that just need a bit of a clean or just something small done to make something work again. My sister doesn't work and looks after the house full time.
My younger brother buys the best of everything. He has a BBQ that cost over $1,000. He has just bought the brand new Commodore for his wife, who works 2 days per week as a teacher. The kids all wear expensive clothes and have so many toys they don't know what to do with half of them. I always get the feeling that he looks down on my sister because she doesn't seem to have the same lifestyle as him (I'm sure he thinks she has a lesser one to him).
Yet when we all get together for a family reunion (birthdays etc), all the kids enjoy playing with each other, and my sister can stilll afford to pay the bill at the end of the meal, just as my brother can.
Yet I get along really well with both families and feel very comfortable with both.
Not sure what to make of it all!!
Regards
My sister is the one who buys regularly from the Not Quite Right shop, scours the papers for all the clothes, toys, food when it's on special, and is happy to accept hand me downs from family and friends.
Her husband scours the streets when it's hard rubbish removal time and comes home with lots of things that just need a bit of a clean or just something small done to make something work again. My sister doesn't work and looks after the house full time.
My younger brother buys the best of everything. He has a BBQ that cost over $1,000. He has just bought the brand new Commodore for his wife, who works 2 days per week as a teacher. The kids all wear expensive clothes and have so many toys they don't know what to do with half of them. I always get the feeling that he looks down on my sister because she doesn't seem to have the same lifestyle as him (I'm sure he thinks she has a lesser one to him).
Yet when we all get together for a family reunion (birthdays etc), all the kids enjoy playing with each other, and my sister can stilll afford to pay the bill at the end of the meal, just as my brother can.
Yet I get along really well with both families and feel very comfortable with both.
Not sure what to make of it all!!
Regards