Snobbery and class - another take
Oct 23rd 2003, 9:32 am
#46
A Male Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Townsville
Posts: 2,106
Originally posted by bondipom
Eastern Suburbs Sydney can be as Snobby as Surrey. It all depends on where you live.
An Aussie angle on it is the 2 department store staff in Kath and Kim.
On the Housing front Sydney is now more unnaffordable than Surrey. $30,000 will cover your fixed costs and then you need your deposit on top of that.
Eastern Suburbs Sydney can be as Snobby as Surrey. It all depends on where you live.
An Aussie angle on it is the 2 department store staff in Kath and Kim.
On the Housing front Sydney is now more unnaffordable than Surrey. $30,000 will cover your fixed costs and then you need your deposit on top of that.
Oct 23rd 2003, 9:43 am
#47
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by PeteY
Out of interest why pick Surrey for your comparison and not London?
Out of interest why pick Surrey for your comparison and not London?
I am a bit dispirited by the Sydney housing market as I would love my own little pad with enough space for a BBQ and a few surf boards but that would set me back 750,000 in the Eastern burbs. I might start looking at the Northen beaches but there is not the life up there. Might be good if I want to start breeding.
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:05 am
#48
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Re: Snobbery and class - another take
Originally posted by bundy
Spot on Badge...it's all about being yourself wherever it is that you feel comfortable and able to do that. For me, that's a small town in the aussie bush where the emphasis is on earning respect through hard yakka and being a 'decent bloke/sheila'. And this is town is in a really low income area, as I've said before.
When I pitched up there, I was straight out of Cambridge University with a first class honours degree - something the uni people here told us would be a passport to anywhere. Say 'I went to Cambridge' to someone from Nundle and they'd say 'that's nice, I've been to Armidale'. I've never been naive (or arrogant) enough to assume that my education owes me anything, which, of course it doesn't...I had to earn respect in the town by working 15 hour physical shifts in hard conditions and joining in down the pub.
I guess my point is that I find some (not all) aussies admire 'better' qualities, such as hard work, honesty, loyalty, mates etc whereas all too many people here in the UK seem to judge you on purely materialistic grounds. To me, that's better. It's a generalisation, I know, and it's just an opinion.
And I lived in a house where we sat on tree stumps, made shelves out of milk crates, washed in bore water and had to collect firewood in order to cook or even have a cup of tea. I was as happy as larry and found it a huge relief that I could get away from everyday materialism and be myself for once
Spot on Badge...it's all about being yourself wherever it is that you feel comfortable and able to do that. For me, that's a small town in the aussie bush where the emphasis is on earning respect through hard yakka and being a 'decent bloke/sheila'. And this is town is in a really low income area, as I've said before.
When I pitched up there, I was straight out of Cambridge University with a first class honours degree - something the uni people here told us would be a passport to anywhere. Say 'I went to Cambridge' to someone from Nundle and they'd say 'that's nice, I've been to Armidale'. I've never been naive (or arrogant) enough to assume that my education owes me anything, which, of course it doesn't...I had to earn respect in the town by working 15 hour physical shifts in hard conditions and joining in down the pub.
I guess my point is that I find some (not all) aussies admire 'better' qualities, such as hard work, honesty, loyalty, mates etc whereas all too many people here in the UK seem to judge you on purely materialistic grounds. To me, that's better. It's a generalisation, I know, and it's just an opinion.
And I lived in a house where we sat on tree stumps, made shelves out of milk crates, washed in bore water and had to collect firewood in order to cook or even have a cup of tea. I was as happy as larry and found it a huge relief that I could get away from everyday materialism and be myself for once
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:13 am
#49
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Originally posted by PeteY
Anyone noticing a pattern here?
People who lived in aus "country style" seem to know a different type of Australian to those who lived/live in the cities.
Anywhere in the world, the population of a city will be completely different in many aspects and attitudes to those who live in the country.
Personally, i am a country bumpkin, and i love all aspects of living in a smaller community, simply because it is just that, a community. You can pop across the road to see mrs Miggins and borrow her mattock, then on the way back pop into see farmer giles to get those eggs he promised you. You are part of a wider group of people, and because you know them there is less pretention. Walking through town with my father in law was great, everyone knew him, everyone said hello, normally got/gave an invite for lunch etc. That kind of thing just does'nt happen in a city.
I liked Hermans post....people are people etc.
Anyone noticing a pattern here?
People who lived in aus "country style" seem to know a different type of Australian to those who lived/live in the cities.
Anywhere in the world, the population of a city will be completely different in many aspects and attitudes to those who live in the country.
Personally, i am a country bumpkin, and i love all aspects of living in a smaller community, simply because it is just that, a community. You can pop across the road to see mrs Miggins and borrow her mattock, then on the way back pop into see farmer giles to get those eggs he promised you. You are part of a wider group of people, and because you know them there is less pretention. Walking through town with my father in law was great, everyone knew him, everyone said hello, normally got/gave an invite for lunch etc. That kind of thing just does'nt happen in a city.
I liked Hermans post....people are people etc.
P.S. Heard from the council yesreday that the plans for our (self-designed) house have been approved! Yippee! Now the real work starts.
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:17 am
#50
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Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by badgersmount
Another pattern is developing.
Myself, Bundy and Petey represent the younger people on this site without sprogs. I am the oldest at 31.
Another pattern is developing.
Myself, Bundy and Petey represent the younger people on this site without sprogs. I am the oldest at 31.
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:24 am
#51
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Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by bundy
Good point. My bloke and I both earn a decent wage, but we're stuck in a tiny one-bed rented flat and the thought of trying to get on the property ladder here terrifies me. Another reason to move. We're lucky in that we are young (25 & 26), have no children as yet and, more importantly, have absolutely no debt. Not much money, but no debt.
We won't be taking piles of cash to Oz because we don't have piles of cash (perhaps A$30,000 when we go out). So we'll be starting at the bottom there too. But where we're headed, house prices are much cheaper, so there is more hope for us.
Neither of us have huge career aspirations and are happy to do anything that comes along.
Maybe we're dreamers, maybe we're foolish - I'm sure others will think that we are. But this is what we want, and we think we can make it work, so we're going to give it a go at least. I see my older brother stuggling here, and I can't help but think that there must be a better way of life.
Good point. My bloke and I both earn a decent wage, but we're stuck in a tiny one-bed rented flat and the thought of trying to get on the property ladder here terrifies me. Another reason to move. We're lucky in that we are young (25 & 26), have no children as yet and, more importantly, have absolutely no debt. Not much money, but no debt.
We won't be taking piles of cash to Oz because we don't have piles of cash (perhaps A$30,000 when we go out). So we'll be starting at the bottom there too. But where we're headed, house prices are much cheaper, so there is more hope for us.
Neither of us have huge career aspirations and are happy to do anything that comes along.
Maybe we're dreamers, maybe we're foolish - I'm sure others will think that we are. But this is what we want, and we think we can make it work, so we're going to give it a go at least. I see my older brother stuggling here, and I can't help but think that there must be a better way of life.
I think, Bundy, that you have the right attitude for total success. Not just in OZ, but wherever you go. Firstly you're debt free. That's a HUGE load that you don't have to carry. Secondly, you're at the opposite end of the spectrum from a snob - willing to do whatever it takes, as nothing is 'beneath you'. Australia will be good to you, because you'll be good to / for Australia. As for being a 'foolish dreamer'? No. Far from it. You go for it, girl, and don't ever let anyone step on your dreams!
Just to add this: just read PeteY's follow-up post to yours, and the same goes for him.
Last edited by downunderpom; Oct 23rd 2003 at 10:48 am.
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:46 am
#52
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by downunderpom
I seem to be posting a lot of replies to this thread..... Hmmm!
I think, Bundy, that you have the right attitude for total success. Not just in OZ, but wherever you go. Firstly you're debt free. That's a HUGE load that you don't have to carry. Secondly, you're at the opposite end of the spectrum from a snob - willing to do whatever it takes, as nothing is 'beneath you'. Australia will be good to you, because you'll be good to / for Australia. As for being a 'foolish dreamer'? No. Far from it. You go for it, girl, and don't ever let anyone step on your dreams!
I seem to be posting a lot of replies to this thread..... Hmmm!
I think, Bundy, that you have the right attitude for total success. Not just in OZ, but wherever you go. Firstly you're debt free. That's a HUGE load that you don't have to carry. Secondly, you're at the opposite end of the spectrum from a snob - willing to do whatever it takes, as nothing is 'beneath you'. Australia will be good to you, because you'll be good to / for Australia. As for being a 'foolish dreamer'? No. Far from it. You go for it, girl, and don't ever let anyone step on your dreams!
Oct 23rd 2003, 10:50 am
#53
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Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by bondipom
I have to agree with that. Shame Nundle is not a day trip away or I would be checking it out after hearing everything from Bundy.
I have to agree with that. Shame Nundle is not a day trip away or I would be checking it out after hearing everything from Bundy.
Oct 23rd 2003, 12:24 pm
#54
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Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,468
Originally posted by lynnj
I grew up in aberdeenshire and was never really aware of any great class sytem untill we moved south 3 years ago, i had never experienced the fact that people wouldnt talk to you because you lived in a rented house, or avoided you at the school gate because you didnt drive a flash enough car, having left an area where housing prices were tiny compared to where we now live we had no chance of buying a property so had no option but to rent, since we have lived in this particular village (almost 1 year) my children have had several school friends back to play and for tea but never once have they been invited to anyone elses, we are a normal nice family from a working class background, my children are mild mannered and polite, we work hard for what we have yet we feel we will never be accepted in this village just because we cant say "look how fab we are because we have a massive great house"
I hope that in moving my family to perth we will be able to find a suburb to settle in where we can live alongside people who will not judge us on how big our house is or how new our car is, only on us as people, if that happens then we hope to find many good friend with whom we can be ourselves.
Lynn
I grew up in aberdeenshire and was never really aware of any great class sytem untill we moved south 3 years ago, i had never experienced the fact that people wouldnt talk to you because you lived in a rented house, or avoided you at the school gate because you didnt drive a flash enough car, having left an area where housing prices were tiny compared to where we now live we had no chance of buying a property so had no option but to rent, since we have lived in this particular village (almost 1 year) my children have had several school friends back to play and for tea but never once have they been invited to anyone elses, we are a normal nice family from a working class background, my children are mild mannered and polite, we work hard for what we have yet we feel we will never be accepted in this village just because we cant say "look how fab we are because we have a massive great house"
I hope that in moving my family to perth we will be able to find a suburb to settle in where we can live alongside people who will not judge us on how big our house is or how new our car is, only on us as people, if that happens then we hope to find many good friend with whom we can be ourselves.
Lynn
Lynn,
You'll love Perth. People are very friendly, particularly if you have kids. Most people drive around in cars far older than many in the UK wouldn't be seen dead in.
You really will be leaving all that crap behind. Good luck with your move.
Oct 23rd 2003, 12:27 pm
#55
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Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,468
Originally posted by bondipom
From not knowing London prices and that was where I was last living in the UK. My sister has just bought a place for a price that would be considered a bargain here. Surrey is also regarded as expensive (I do not know in reality).
I am a bit dispirited by the Sydney housing market as I would love my own little pad with enough space for a BBQ and a few surf boards but that would set me back 750,000 in the Eastern burbs. I might start looking at the Northen beaches but there is not the life up there. Might be good if I want to start breeding.
From not knowing London prices and that was where I was last living in the UK. My sister has just bought a place for a price that would be considered a bargain here. Surrey is also regarded as expensive (I do not know in reality).
I am a bit dispirited by the Sydney housing market as I would love my own little pad with enough space for a BBQ and a few surf boards but that would set me back 750,000 in the Eastern burbs. I might start looking at the Northen beaches but there is not the life up there. Might be good if I want to start breeding.
Oct 23rd 2003, 12:32 pm
#56
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by renth
Come to WA bondipom, you'll have to change your name to triggpom or something but it's a great place, especially to bring up children, much cheaper compared to Sydney and there is plenty of surf.
Come to WA bondipom, you'll have to change your name to triggpom or something but it's a great place, especially to bring up children, much cheaper compared to Sydney and there is plenty of surf.
Oct 23rd 2003, 1:39 pm
#57
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Joined: Jan 2003
Location: Perth, Jnr is back!
Posts: 1,286
My two cents worth, basically agreeing with Herman, although I hate snobbery and people who think they are better than others just because of certain things.
But people are different:-
Some people are happy up to their eyes in muck and couldn't be stuck in an office and vice versa.
Some people love camping and hate hotels and vice versa.
Some people are happy in the company of others, some prefer solitude.
Some people like nice things around them, some couldn't give a toss.
It is not "how" we live our lives and what we have or have not got, but how we treat and speak to others around us that should determine the type of person we are.
Di
But people are different:-
Some people are happy up to their eyes in muck and couldn't be stuck in an office and vice versa.
Some people love camping and hate hotels and vice versa.
Some people are happy in the company of others, some prefer solitude.
Some people like nice things around them, some couldn't give a toss.
It is not "how" we live our lives and what we have or have not got, but how we treat and speak to others around us that should determine the type of person we are.
Di
Oct 23rd 2003, 1:55 pm
#58
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,666
Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by downunderpom
Not any more, mate! I'm 49, going on 15!!
Not any more, mate! I'm 49, going on 15!!
Hey... we are oldies without kids...ok ok...i do have them but they grown up and still in blighty.... me 41 hubby 44..... instead of the kids leaving home, we crept out the back door while they werent looking!!!
Oct 23rd 2003, 1:55 pm
#59
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Posts: 2,912
Originally posted by Herman
People can debate about Aussies being friendly and sporty, country people being kinder than city people etc etc, but I personally am not remotely convinced.
I've experienced quite a few cultures around the world as more than a tourist. I grew up in a small country village in South Gloucestershire, have lived in Bristol, Southampton, Zurich, Prague, the Gold Coast and Sydney. I am married to an Eastern European who grew up in a poor family in a small communist oppressed town. My inlaws dont speak a word of english and come from the group of people you describe as 'glad to have a roof over their heads'.
I have done long work projects in the US, France, Germany, Italy, Czech Republic, Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, Finland and Slovakia working and getting to know locals very well on each occasion. I now have good friends in each of these countries.
I dont know, maybe its me, but once I get to know people in each country and get used to their traditions, I forget what nationality they are. All of my prejudices and ill informed beliefs about other nationalities came crashing down when I got to know my wife's family. Hence, I dont see Aussies as anything special or anything different. I think the putting of Australians on some kind of pedestal is reverse racism, not so different to making sweeping generalisations about certain other nationalities. I dont buy it.
People can debate about Aussies being friendly and sporty, country people being kinder than city people etc etc, but I personally am not remotely convinced.
I've experienced quite a few cultures around the world as more than a tourist. I grew up in a small country village in South Gloucestershire, have lived in Bristol, Southampton, Zurich, Prague, the Gold Coast and Sydney. I am married to an Eastern European who grew up in a poor family in a small communist oppressed town. My inlaws dont speak a word of english and come from the group of people you describe as 'glad to have a roof over their heads'.
I have done long work projects in the US, France, Germany, Italy, Czech Republic, Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, Finland and Slovakia working and getting to know locals very well on each occasion. I now have good friends in each of these countries.
I dont know, maybe its me, but once I get to know people in each country and get used to their traditions, I forget what nationality they are. All of my prejudices and ill informed beliefs about other nationalities came crashing down when I got to know my wife's family. Hence, I dont see Aussies as anything special or anything different. I think the putting of Australians on some kind of pedestal is reverse racism, not so different to making sweeping generalisations about certain other nationalities. I dont buy it.
So so true. Everywhere in every part of OZ you will get the same batch of personalities that life will throw out anywhere.
You cant just say because its a country town everyone will be happy and friendly, the reality is many will have severe social and emotional problems caused by isolation, unemployment or poverty. Same applies to your flashest suburbs and gated communites, whos to say half the residents are not high as a kite on valium or worse and beating the heck out of the wife or kids.
This pedalstal image of OZ is ridiculous really, we have every kind of human defect here just like everywhere else. Blue sky does not wash that away. Wherever you go there will be good and bad people and places, nobody would write all this pedestal stuff about the UK, USA, Canada because it would be too bizzare for words. Anyone whos been here knows we have all the same problems as anywhere else.
Oct 23rd 2003, 2:00 pm
#60
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Re: a little bit political
Originally posted by podgypossum
instead of the kids leaving home, we crept out the back door while they weren't looking!!!
instead of the kids leaving home, we crept out the back door while they weren't looking!!!
