Skilled Immigration Policy
Aug 26th 2003, 1:01 am
#16
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 41
Originally posted by Sunlover
That's my point - there is no balance.
I have a British passport and a Canadian one and will eventually have an Australian one too, so I believe I can live anywhere I choose (including SOUTH AFRICA - we're NOT all Afrikaaners you know. South Africa was a British colony).
Considering that I live in the same city as MM I'd also say that there was no safe distance between us (not a well thought out post Mikel). :lecture:
That's my point - there is no balance.
I have a British passport and a Canadian one and will eventually have an Australian one too, so I believe I can live anywhere I choose (including SOUTH AFRICA - we're NOT all Afrikaaners you know. South Africa was a British colony).
Considering that I live in the same city as MM I'd also say that there was no safe distance between us (not a well thought out post Mikel). :lecture:
if the Assies had got it wrong the GDP per capita of US$22,000.00 (UK US$19,000.00 USA US$29,000.00) would not be what it is, I think this is a good indication of things going quite well in the Aus economy. so what, there is a job shortage but where else in the world is'nt there at the moment. With 110,000 immigrants every year .5% of the entire population (and that is only the Skilled Independent) there is a huge need for Houses/Office block roads etc to be built, thus tradesman are in demand, and in a few years there will be a demand for something else. The policy is adaptive and designed to meet Australia's current needs not the needs of potential immigrants.
Do'nt take it personally.
P.S. I am an English Speaking South African, Sunlover.
Just because your friend can not get in do'nt take it personally.
Aug 26th 2003, 1:07 am
#17
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 41
Originally posted by Amazulu
That's not true. You can get permission from Home Affairs to have dual nationality. I know because I have done it, I have dual UK/SA citizenship.
That's not true. You can get permission from Home Affairs to have dual nationality. I know because I have done it, I have dual UK/SA citizenship.
Aug 26th 2003, 10:21 pm
#18
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 345
Originally posted by mikel
I am aware that the Home Affires did that in odd occasions and only for good reasons, generally under the old Government and only where travel to a Northern country could be difficult with a SA passport.
I am aware that the Home Affires did that in odd occasions and only for good reasons, generally under the old Government and only where travel to a Northern country could be difficult with a SA passport.
It is a current procedure that you can follow if you want to keep your South African Citizenship. The only proviso is that you have to apply before you take out another Citizenship.
Sep 21st 2003, 7:30 am
#19
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 190
Re: Skilled Immigration Policy
It's good that your friend is well-educated and has a MS in mining engineering. However, your comment about brick-layers and hairdressers could be perceived negatively; I took offence at the comment.
Don't you think that brick-layers and hairdressers deserve just as much opportunity to migrate to Aus.?
Besides, hairdressing and brick-layer are skills just as well and you should avoid despising those skills.
Formal education is not everything! Please avoid looking down on skills that were not acquired by Masters Degrees!!!! They are equally important!!
Don't you think that brick-layers and hairdressers deserve just as much opportunity to migrate to Aus.?
Besides, hairdressing and brick-layer are skills just as well and you should avoid despising those skills.
Formal education is not everything! Please avoid looking down on skills that were not acquired by Masters Degrees!!!! They are equally important!!
Sep 21st 2003, 7:50 am
#20
Monaco here we!!! oh no
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Bexleyheath Kent
Posts: 411
Re: Skilled Immigration Policy
Originally posted by Sunlover
Is Australia really doing itself any good with its "Skilled" immigration policy ?
We have a friend who is 30 years old (prime employment age), has a Masters degree in Mining Engineering ( good education and prime Australian employment sector).
You would think he would be snapped up by the Australian authorities. But no, he doesn't have enough points to pass the points test independently and will have to apply for immigration through a sponsored category.
Meanwhile back in Australia bricklayers, plasterers and hairdressers are being welcomed with open arms and even accorded MODL status.
I understand that it's a supply and demand thing and that these trades meet immediate shortages. But in the long term it makes for a less eduacted population which is not going to be able to continue competing in the increasingly well educated international arena.
Is Australia really doing itself any good with its "Skilled" immigration policy ?
We have a friend who is 30 years old (prime employment age), has a Masters degree in Mining Engineering ( good education and prime Australian employment sector).
You would think he would be snapped up by the Australian authorities. But no, he doesn't have enough points to pass the points test independently and will have to apply for immigration through a sponsored category.
Meanwhile back in Australia bricklayers, plasterers and hairdressers are being welcomed with open arms and even accorded MODL status.
I understand that it's a supply and demand thing and that these trades meet immediate shortages. But in the long term it makes for a less eduacted population which is not going to be able to continue competing in the increasingly well educated international arena.
I completed a five year apprentiship as an Electrican. Came out of my time in 1983.
I gained city & guilds 236 parts 1,2, onc and later on completed my HNC.
Went into management about 1990. Worked as the senior project manger for a $80 million electrical section of works in Tuas Power station singapore.
When completed came back to the UK and worked for the Chief Engineers department on the Jubilee Line extension Project.
My Project management skills are not in demand in Australia but my electrical skills are.
Therefore I am not to proud to go back on the tools to provide a better life for my wife and children.
I will hope to work my way back up through the ranks of course whether that happens or not only time will tell.
May I suggest your friend put his mining qualifications to the test and don a hard hat if Miners are in demand, or wait until the opportunity arises when his skills are required.
Cheers.
Sep 21st 2003, 8:11 am
#21
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 50
Qualified?
Interesting posts on Quali's. The post about being prepared to adjust your work outlook appears right from what i have read here and elsewhere.
A masters while being a tremendous accomplishment is no less than brickie,chippie or hairdresser and the qualis and experience they have.
We all need to live somewhere, get a haircut(whats left of it) and get doors hung!!!
We also need the raw materials, there's no one more qualified, just qualified to do the job in hand.
Cheers
A masters while being a tremendous accomplishment is no less than brickie,chippie or hairdresser and the qualis and experience they have.
We all need to live somewhere, get a haircut(whats left of it) and get doors hung!!!
We also need the raw materials, there's no one more qualified, just qualified to do the job in hand.
Cheers
Sep 21st 2003, 9:23 am
#22
A Male Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Townsville
Posts: 2,106
Re: Skilled Immigration Policy
Originally posted by ADELAIDE BOUND
May I suggest your friend put his mining qualifications to the test and don a hard hat if Miners are in demand, or wait until the opportunity arises when his skills are required.
May I suggest your friend put his mining qualifications to the test and don a hard hat if Miners are in demand, or wait until the opportunity arises when his skills are required.
Instead....if i can't get geo work.....you'll find me behind the bar at the miners pub pulling the pints (or schooner or whatever they call em)!!
Sep 21st 2003, 9:46 am
#23
Monaco here we!!! oh no
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Bexleyheath Kent
Posts: 411
Re: Skilled Immigration Policy
Originally posted by PeteY
Us geo's are a lazy breed. Don a hard hat? LOL that would just about kill me off
Instead....if i can't get geo work.....you'll find me behind the bar at the miners pub pulling the pints (or schooner or whatever they call em)!!
Us geo's are a lazy breed. Don a hard hat? LOL that would just about kill me off
Instead....if i can't get geo work.....you'll find me behind the bar at the miners pub pulling the pints (or schooner or whatever they call em)!!
I remember you down the road from me in that Miners pub in orpington.
The one that serves all the workers in Chiselhurst caves.
I was the one trying to fix the fuse when the electrickery had gone off to the pumps.
Seriously All I am saying is if you are able to downgrade your qualifications to obtain the required points. Do itttttttttttt
Maybe sunlover came across wrong in his wording. But it does get you down when a 5 year apprentiship and 20 years experience is considered not as good as a graduate qualification.
Theory is one thing. The fact of life is that there is no substitute for experience.
Working in Singapore I was surrounded by graduates. The trouble is with no experience they were being taken to the cleaners by the Korean management company out there.
People with experience who have worked their way up through all levels, could see the problems coming their way, way ahead of the others and were able to get the management procedures in place.
This is by no way any slur on graduates. All I am saying is once you have gained those qualifications you then need to get your experience behind you for it to be of any benefit.
This is what the Australian goverment must also think. Hence the requirement for a period of 3 to 5 years of relevant work experience to obtain maximum points.
Anyway back to fixing those pumps.
Cheers.
Sep 21st 2003, 10:18 am
#24
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,147
oh dear sunlover, does your friend think that applying through being sponsored is beneath him or something?
sad to see the 'I'm too good for the common people' mentality is still around.
tell your pal to watch who he gets to cut his hair, plaster his walls etc.... they may have read this thread and be offended.
Sue (a nurse - mean when upset!), who lives with a plasterer(who left school with 1 o level and who has worked damned hard all his life)
sad to see the 'I'm too good for the common people' mentality is still around.
tell your pal to watch who he gets to cut his hair, plaster his walls etc.... they may have read this thread and be offended.
Sue (a nurse - mean when upset!), who lives with a plasterer(who left school with 1 o level and who has worked damned hard all his life)
Sep 21st 2003, 10:43 am
#25
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Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Concretors here are currently charging around $80.00 square metre for a concrete driveway. Carpenters can demand $35.00 an hour because there is such a shortage. Brickies $650 per thousand.
Universities are pumping out more graduates than there are jobs.
Fact is most aussie kids see no glory working out in the burning sun as a chippie, brickie etc. Hundreds of apprentice trade positions are unfilled even in areas of high unemployment.
Oz is merely targetting people who will get jobs here.
Universities are pumping out more graduates than there are jobs.
Fact is most aussie kids see no glory working out in the burning sun as a chippie, brickie etc. Hundreds of apprentice trade positions are unfilled even in areas of high unemployment.
Oz is merely targetting people who will get jobs here.
Sep 21st 2003, 10:53 am
#26
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by PeteY
Put quite simply.....
How many jobs are there for acedmics, or more specifically, mining engineers. Geo engineering is'nt a primary employment sector. Miners/riggers etc, maybe; geos definatly not. For every 100 miners employed by a resourcing company there will be 1 geo. Its a very competitive area. Also, as mega says, it is very dependant upon mineral prices. There are two types of mineral deposit. A reserve, where the current economic conditions dictate that it is not viable to exploit the deposit, and a resource, where the price is right and you can lay the ground to waste. Lower prices = fewer geos.
How many jobs are there for plumbers/carpenters/brickies? Loads. This IS a primary employment sector. There are always homes being built. There are always renovations/repairs/extensions etc.
As for Aus becoming less educated.......why? We are still talking about a reletivly small % of the population being made up of immigrants, so the net effect upon the amount ot "educated" people would be small would it not?
Put quite simply.....
How many jobs are there for acedmics, or more specifically, mining engineers. Geo engineering is'nt a primary employment sector. Miners/riggers etc, maybe; geos definatly not. For every 100 miners employed by a resourcing company there will be 1 geo. Its a very competitive area. Also, as mega says, it is very dependant upon mineral prices. There are two types of mineral deposit. A reserve, where the current economic conditions dictate that it is not viable to exploit the deposit, and a resource, where the price is right and you can lay the ground to waste. Lower prices = fewer geos.
How many jobs are there for plumbers/carpenters/brickies? Loads. This IS a primary employment sector. There are always homes being built. There are always renovations/repairs/extensions etc.
As for Aus becoming less educated.......why? We are still talking about a reletivly small % of the population being made up of immigrants, so the net effect upon the amount ot "educated" people would be small would it not?
Guess what it means if the real estate boom crashes with all the extra new skilled workers on the market.
Sep 21st 2003, 8:54 pm
#27
IT nerd
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Perth
Posts: 27
When you get here and you try and get yourself a decent haricut, you'll know why the policy is what it is!!
By the way - I was working in the dental field for some time, and now entrance by UK dentists is very hard (virtually impossible without taking extra Australian qualifications). This is because of EU enlargement - if Eastern European qualified professionals can arrive in the UK and gain employment based on (perhaps) dodgy or less valued education, then in future years they might apply to Oz from the UK as an EU citizen (with great language skills, experience and the like), making them look good in the points test. However Australia does not now trust these professionals as having a good enough background to work here, and so puts a bar on the whole profession. I think this might be a trend for the future as EU expansion continues and the European market gets flooded by overseas qualified people.
Of course, if you were cynical, you might accuse Australia of re-inventing the 'white Australia' policy all over again with this approach...!
By the way - I was working in the dental field for some time, and now entrance by UK dentists is very hard (virtually impossible without taking extra Australian qualifications). This is because of EU enlargement - if Eastern European qualified professionals can arrive in the UK and gain employment based on (perhaps) dodgy or less valued education, then in future years they might apply to Oz from the UK as an EU citizen (with great language skills, experience and the like), making them look good in the points test. However Australia does not now trust these professionals as having a good enough background to work here, and so puts a bar on the whole profession. I think this might be a trend for the future as EU expansion continues and the European market gets flooded by overseas qualified people.
Of course, if you were cynical, you might accuse Australia of re-inventing the 'white Australia' policy all over again with this approach...!
Sep 21st 2003, 9:00 pm
#28
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Joined: Feb 2002
Location: Dream life UK....
Posts: 2,912
Originally posted by MartinD
When you get here and you try and get yourself a decent haricut, you'll know why the policy is what it is!!
By the way - I was working in the dental field for some time, and now entrance by UK dentists is very hard (virtually impossible without taking extra Australian qualifications). This is because of EU enlargement - if Eastern European qualified professionals can arrive in the UK and gain employment based on (perhaps) dodgy or less valued education, then in future years they might apply to Oz from the UK as an EU citizen (with great language skills, experience and the like), making them look good in the points test. However Australia does not now trust these professionals as having a good enough background to work here, and so puts a bar on the whole profession. I think this might be a trend for the future as EU expansion continues and the European market gets flooded by overseas qualified people.
Of course, if you were cynical, you might accuse Australia of re-inventing the 'white Australia' policy all over again with this approach...!
When you get here and you try and get yourself a decent haricut, you'll know why the policy is what it is!!
By the way - I was working in the dental field for some time, and now entrance by UK dentists is very hard (virtually impossible without taking extra Australian qualifications). This is because of EU enlargement - if Eastern European qualified professionals can arrive in the UK and gain employment based on (perhaps) dodgy or less valued education, then in future years they might apply to Oz from the UK as an EU citizen (with great language skills, experience and the like), making them look good in the points test. However Australia does not now trust these professionals as having a good enough background to work here, and so puts a bar on the whole profession. I think this might be a trend for the future as EU expansion continues and the European market gets flooded by overseas qualified people.
Of course, if you were cynical, you might accuse Australia of re-inventing the 'white Australia' policy all over again with this approach...!
Sep 22nd 2003, 12:40 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
I met a Dentist last year who got work - but she was prepared to go outback - and I think it was a locum position.
Pete - geos do seem scarce - I also envied them for their stints in the air conditioned cabs of their Cruisers whilst us miners worked in the blazing sun. ;-)
On the subject of graduates - in the UK since 1992 there has been an explosion in HE and lets face it everyone goes to University does embroidery and basket weaving and then expects a high paced, international jetsetting job. There are too many people entering HE as a matter of course.
20/25 years ago only the top xx pc of the (Academic) population went to uni now everyone does as a kind of precursor to getting a job.
If you are better off in a trade , you are better off in a trade. The Dutch German models of sifting people in to trades/ academia is far more suitable.
badgers
Pete - geos do seem scarce - I also envied them for their stints in the air conditioned cabs of their Cruisers whilst us miners worked in the blazing sun. ;-)
On the subject of graduates - in the UK since 1992 there has been an explosion in HE and lets face it everyone goes to University does embroidery and basket weaving and then expects a high paced, international jetsetting job. There are too many people entering HE as a matter of course.
20/25 years ago only the top xx pc of the (Academic) population went to uni now everyone does as a kind of precursor to getting a job.
If you are better off in a trade , you are better off in a trade. The Dutch German models of sifting people in to trades/ academia is far more suitable.
badgers
