Should we do it or not
 

Hi All

Its been about a year since the last time I created a thread about moving to Oz and whether it would be sensible to do it.

Well I have been offered a different job in Brisbane, on a 457 visa and am unsure whether to do it or not. Family of 5, 3 kids under 7.

Salary offered is around $90K + Super, they have also said they will include LAFHA. Based on this I have worked out roughly this to be $6100 a month.

Going through the website and others have worked out the following monthly costs. I have over estimated on a few things.

Rent - 2000
Car - 800
Car Insurance - 50
Fuel - 180
Contents Insurance - 41
Food - 1000
Train/Bus - 800
Gas/Electric - 150
Medical Insurance - 250

Mobile Phone provided
Laptop/Broadband provided

This equates to $5271, leaving just under $1000 for anything else. Some of the items may be quite high so would have more money in pocket.

So would like opinions on whether this could be done, I am trying to get them to pay for some relocation costs at the moment. Have I missed anything in my list or really over estimated on anything?

Many thanks
Dave

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Hi Dave,
My opinion is to do it! We too are going on a 457 visa. We have two boys 8 and 5. It has always been our dream having spent alot of time in Australia. Our decision has been made easier by the fact my Daddy and two sisters live in Oz and i so want to be near them. We are very much in the way of thinking that if it all goes wrong we can come back. We are in our early thirties and the kids are of an age where i think they will settle well and are not at a time in their lives where it will affect their schooling etc. Obviously it is a big decision and a life changing one but for us there is no question. We are also very aware of the risks of going on a 457 visa but we feel it is something we need to do and see if its for us and its very much a now or never situation! My advice is lifes too short and things happen for a reason and if you have been given the opportunity then take it!
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Emma x

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Mate, the first big challenge for anybody moving to Oz is getting a job, so with that worry out of the way I would make the move.

BB

Re: Should we do it or not
 

I completely agree and wouldn't hesitate to go.

Good luck! :)

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Can anyone in QLD on a 457 visa help Dave out?

Re: Should we do it or not
 

This isn't aimed at you personally. You just happened to post the bit about the risks of a 457.

I came on a 457, along with another guy from the same office. For him, PR was never going to be an issue to obtain, so the risks of a 457 didn't apply... or so he thought.

He went for the medicals as part of the PR application and discovered a heart condition. Now he doesn't feel ill in anyway at all and the condition has currently zero impact on his health, but it was still enough for him to fail the medical. Company backs him through the appeals process but it comes to nothing, PR will never happen. So company extends his 457.... right up until the point the redundancies get announced... and all 457's get chopped.

In the four years he had been here he had bought a home, settled his three kids in schools, his wife had a decent job as well.

All finished.. 28 days to get out of the country. He's now back in the UK, homeless and jobless.

Do NOT underestimate those 457 risks. I know I did.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

I came over on a 457 visa and was lucky that my employer sponsored me for PR. I was too old to do it any other way, and didn't have the option to go for PR independently. I can't tell you how vulnerable you feel supporting a family :)as a 457 visa candidate - it sucks and many people come unstuck. If you've a decent employer who will sponsor you after you get here, I'd consider it - or if you just want to give Oz a go for 4 years, and go home - then why not? But don't burn your bridges, and make sure you have a back up plan..

Re: Should we do it or not
 

I think this is a difficult one, really. I do not like the fact we could be thrown out of the country in 28 days if things do not work out.

They have said that they would sponsor after 2 years, need to get this in the contract first I suppose. I think my main worry is for the first 2 years. I will not be cutting any ties, will be renting house, may even consider not taking furniture and just rent a furnished property.

So much to think about, I am still waiting to see whether they willl assist in relocation costs. If they do not then this will not happen anyway, as we do not have that sort of money spare.

We want to give it a go but not to the detriment of our way of living, so if the salary is not good enough to live on then I do not want to do it. The same with the costs of relocating, I do not want to have to take loans/CC to pay for things when we get to Oz, there is just no point.

How do people feel about the actual salary, is this something we could live on?

Thanks

Re: Should we do it or not
 

IMHO $90K is low - If you have a family to provide for. I came over on more than this, and my hubbie supplemented this with a (low) wage. We are not rolling in money by any means - nearly $3K per month rent (4 bed townhouse 8K from city) and one small car. We have 2 children in state school. One holiday per year (down from 3 per year in the UK) and back to UK once in 3 years for a break.
It's just so expensive here - medical treatment adds up (despite having insurance) - food is 2X the cost, clothes about 2-3X (although I order M&S online) - there's no competition so Ozzies pay much more than they need to -as an example I order my undies mail order from the UK for less than half the price that I can buy them for 5 mins walk from my door! Madness!

Buying shampoo etc takes your breath away - no Superdrug 2 for 1's here.
I don't want to put you off - it's a fantastic adventure, and I'd do it all again - it's just that in the 3 years I've been here, prices have rocketed. I'd say living in Brissie is the equivalent of living in an expensive area in the UK (I'm from the South of UK)

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Very wise words you have hit the nail on head. Your opinion is put across really well. It is a great adventure and i would not want to put anyone off, but encourage them to think about their decision really well.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

I thought the 28 days had gone up to 90 - I may be wrong here. We came on a 457 and had a nightmare - the company offerred to sponsor but then didn't follow through with all the conditions required. OH was close to 45yr and a few point short and we had a nightmare year trying to get security of PR - lots of threads on here from me about it.

So I really echo come deciding to go back at the end (or prepared to at least), or be sure you can get PR independantly. Also the employer often thinks they need to wait for 2 years but that is only the case when you can't get a skills assessment. If you can do this they can sponsor from day one. Do they know this? If this is an option maybe even consider paying the fees for it if neccessary - you'd have to anyway for a 175.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

As previous posters have said, make no mistake Australia is an expensive country and to be honest I don't think you have over estimated too much. I have lived here 6 years and still get shocked by prices.

You will pay for kids prescriptions, you will pay for the dentist, you will pay (if you can't find bulk bill) your doctor's visit all things that in the UK for kids are free, my child has asthma and a visit to the doctors and his inhalers is just over $120 a hit, when they have the usual sore throats and ear infections in the winter it adds up.

As other posters have said a 457 is a visa that can be cancelled as you know at any time and it does happen, I also know somebody who was given 28 days to get out...... Just go in with your eyes wide open...... Good Luck

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Not sure if you do, but check whether you'd have to pay for the school fees on a 457 visa. Don't know the situation for QLD or your visa, just know that temporary visa holders in NSW have to pay about $4500 school fees/year for the state schools.

Other than that I'd say that the costs you worked out are definitely livable and I personally would take the risk!

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Why don't you do a proper mideical before you go so that you know you pass the PR requirements should you be offered it?

Re: Should we do it or not
 

If you already have a job lined up (which is always half the battle), I say go for it :thumbup:

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Because the only people that can tell you whether you will pass are the medical guys at DIAC and they won't do medicals just to find out if you would pass. Also, even if someone would pass now there is no guarantee they would pass 3 or 4 years down the line - their health could have changed, or the requirements could have changed.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal for me. :) Do it.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Maybe thats why the UK is almost bankrupt?

Re: Should we do it or not
 

It's certainly why you worry about getting sick in Oz... I had a minor operation last Xmas, and with full hospital health cover my 'gap' and ancilliary charges came to over 3K. Would have been more if I was on a 457 - was told by my Dr not to even think of waiting for the op here in the public system

One thing for OP to think about - what is your skill set? Is it very marketable? It is possible to find a new sponsor in Brisbane if things don't work out, and if you've skills in demand (e.g. SAP, technical business analysis) etc this can be done, so provides a potential (if stressful) safety net

also - unlike other states 457ers don't pay school fees in QLD (although this could change)

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Hi All

Really appreciate all your responses and advice still not sure whether will end up doing this or not.

I think if the relocation costs are a considerable amount we may consider it but at this stage 90k may be to tight. I think I had in my head that 100k would be just about enough.

Thanks again
Dave

Ps will keep you informed on what we decide.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Please don't be put off just be aware as I am sure you are of all the risks involved, my hubbies first job was badly paid and at the time we didn't know any different, our savings were soon eaten up by bills and it took a couple of years once circumstances changed to sort ourselves out, it is great living over here but terrible when you can't even pay the electricity bill, paradise we found out can be quite expensive.:)

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Hi Dave, very comprehensive research.

I would advise not to believe people who say things cost 2x or 3x the price here. Many people on this forum would say overall the prices are roughly equal, especially if you take the long-term exchange rate of 2.3-2.4$/pound and are prepared to learn where to buy things etc.

On your costs- they seem about right. Wouldn't have thought 800 a month for public transport, unless the whole family is using it all of the time (monthly tram/train ticket here in melbourne is $130 for the inner suburbs I imagine similar for brissie). OTOH, other costs may be a bit low-food and rent?

I would definitely insist on relocation expenses. Flights + $10000 would be good. We got flights + 5000 and felt poor for the first year (+ we have no kids) but we had very little savings to bring over..

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Would just re-iterate what people have said about the 457. We are here on this visa and came over at the end of the mining boom. Which ended 1 month after arriving. It has been a lot of stress being on the visa after watching friends being forced to leave the country.

We are going through company sponsered PR at the moment and will be VERY glad to kiss goodbye to the 457.

BUT.... Would i still have come. Yep, in a heartbeat.

As for relocation costs. Its difficult as we dont have children and my sponser picked up the flights and some removal costs, though we did arrive with no furnture only boxes of cloths and personal belongings. We used the little cash we had to re buy furnishings.

I do think Australia is expensive for many things - food, internet, mobile phone, housing. But taking the board down to the beach is free!

Re: Should we do it or not
 

To be honest just do it, or you'll live to regret it!!!

I'm coming over, have never been to Oz but have got myself a job and thought b*llocks just do it, there's nothing really left here in the UK it's going to take years to get back on it's feet if it ever does....so why the hell not....

a man who's never made a mistake has never made ***** all!!!

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Your mate sounds unlucky....I know I guy called Framac and everyone who has been on here for more than a few years will remember his story....He got his PR!
I wont say anymore...just try a search. You'll see what I mean.
HKA
x

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Excellent job offer thats for sure, but think carefully about moving to Oz,
you may not be made welcome by the natives ? then you waste lots of money returning to the UK.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

DO IT! We moved to Kent about 10 years ago and I can't tell you how much harder it was living there than here. We stayed for a year and while we enjoyed our time (kids were 2 and 6) it was bloody hard. I still feel that, with the right information, life in Australia is much healthier, easier and there are opportunities here that are just too hard to find in the UK. Don't dwell on negatives that people give you, just find an alternative. I read about car problems, hard to find clothes and food stuffs on these threads and just think about how we had the same sort of problems in the UK (I can laugh now about the Vauxhall Cavalier we bought that blew up on the way home from the private seller. No recourse at all! Just lost our cash!) You just need to readjust and find an alternative. The kids will love it. Get the admin done and the rest will work out for itself. :thumbsup:

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Ok Little update

I have been offered the Salary of 90k as you all know.

They also offered initial set up costs when we arrive, 4 weeks in an Apartment close to office, as well as arranging a company to assist in finding a rental home, schools etc.

Unfortunately we have very little savings and it cannot be done without any assistance when we get there. So the agent is going back to see whether they could do a lump sum of $10k when we get to brisbane. This however would be a substitute to a payrise, which would have been after 6 months. I personally prefer this.

I have read one of the replies and got me thinking, I made a mistake on the train/bus cost, as everything seems to be weekly, just took the monthly amount to be weekly, it should actually be about $170 and this is for 4 zones, so may be less.

If we are able to get a loan for a used car, then the monthly amount would be much less than $800. I am going on the assumption that people seem to struggle to get a loan from banks on a 457 visa. $800 is for a new car costing around $30,000

Rent - 2000
Car - 800
Car Insurance - 50
Fuel - 180
Contents Insurance - 41
Food - 1000
Train/Bus - 170
Gas/Electric - 150
Medical Insurance - 250

So its looking a little bit better but only if we can get the assistance.

Both my wife and I have already done the WHV albeit 10 years ago. So we both know what its like, I know it will be very different to actually living there.

Thanks again for all your replies

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Medical insurance should be paid by the employer for people on 457 visas

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Just a quick note on a relocation package. Our situation is that DH's company paid for flights for our family (3 of us) to Aus, a stopover in Singapore on the way, 4 weeks accommodation on arrival, a relocation agent and $15,000 expenses. It sounds very cushy. :o The 4 weeks temporary accommodation they put us up in was dreadful - we moved out after not even staying one night. (I wasn't prepared to stay in a hotel that didn't even have hot water.) The relocation agent was, in essence, a glorified taxi driver and didn't really assist us in any way (we've lived here before and knew suburbs etc, so probably didn't need one in some respects, but we expected them to help us get the rental we wanted. They really didn't.). And we went through the entire $15k in about 8 weeks - accommodation costs mainly. :o:o

I'm just saying that what sounds like a great assistance deal isn't necessarily. I'm glad we had savings behind us to cover our backs, particularly as securing somewhere to live proved a nightmare for us. Brisbane might be very different to Sydney though (the rental market here is, erm, competitive!) and you could well find that your package turns out to suit you perfectly. :)

Good luck with your decision. (FWIW, I'd risk it. ;) )

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Unlikely - they often just stipulate in your contract you must have it so they don't get held responsible for costs you may incur

Re: Should we do it or not
 

I find Brisbane more expensive than Sydney except for housing costs, which is perverse because Brisbane salaries seem lower. As regards the car loan, be sure to get it within three months of arriving or you may have problems on that visa.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

The relocation stuff sounds good if you can get the 10k (assuming they're paying for all your flights on top of that).

Yes I would have thought you could economise on the car. I don't see how you couldn't get a loan for a used car if you can get one for a new car. Anyway, somebody should be able to advise on this - does anybody have experience of buying a used car on a 457?

Note for the medical insurance - you do not NEED to buy this at all (AFAIK), as a UK citizen you receive medicare coverage, and with a (family) salary of 90k you are under the threshold for the medicare levy surcharge (google this if you are unsure).

People have differing opinions as to the value of private health insurance in Aus. Many get along fine without it. For situations where you need medical care urgently, you will usually receive just as good care in the public system (IMO). In most ways the public (Medicare) system in aus is similar to the NHS: it will cover you for the basics but anything non-urgent has (sometimes long) waiting lists.

However I can understand that with a young family you might want insurance for peace of mind.

Otherwise, if you want to do it - go for it :).

Re: Should we do it or not
 

spoke to a lady who has just come back from Oz after 4 years - she worked as a staff nurse - and she said you dont need to get private healthcare.

which is the opposite to what i was led to believe.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

She's right, you don't NEED it, but some people think it is a good idea. Eg there are no NHS dentists here and dentistry can be v expensive. Also waiting times for some elective surgery seem very high, probably worse than the NHS. Having said that you might be better off saving the $2000+ a year you spend on insurance and using the money to 'go private' if you ever have to.

Re: Should we do it or not
 

we like to a 6 monthly check up at the dentist so for that reason alone the insurance may be worthwhile.

i like to be proactive rather than reactive when it comes to looking after my teeth :D

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Yes, I was told by Commonwealth that I should have bought it within three months of arriving and there was nothing they could do for me. This seems to be a similar story with all the banks. I ended up getting finance through the dealer from Westpac, my LTV was 50% and they charged me a whopping 13.95% interest. I paid it off in lumps in a little over 6 months. 457 visa holders are understandably seen as a flight risk, although in my case I felt a bit ripped off because my equity in the car had them completely covered and the car was comprehensively insured. I most of my savings in Euro unfortunately (or fortunately as I can't touch them except on hols in Europe :-) ).

Re: Should we do it or not
 

You have to pay everytime you visit a GP in Austrlalia , You do get some money back , however you do pay about $25 each time

Re: Should we do it or not
 

Not if you go to a bulk-billing GP. Then it's free.

BB

Re: Should we do it or not
 

This is true , however there are not many who bulk-bill these days ...very rare.:)