Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Nov 18th 2006, 12:22 am
#16
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
interesting analysis... since my wife (to-be at the time) wrote off 2 of my cars , my beloved audi 2.2 coupe, and my ford orion 1.6i ;-)
Yet because I took 3 attempts to her 1 to pass my driving test I am clearly a worse driver than her. I count the number of classic audi-coupe's destroyed as more of an indication than numbers of times it took to do a proper 3-point-turn.
Yet because I took 3 attempts to her 1 to pass my driving test I am clearly a worse driver than her. I count the number of classic audi-coupe's destroyed as more of an indication than numbers of times it took to do a proper 3-point-turn.
Nov 18th 2006, 12:31 am
#17
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by spalen
interesting analysis... since my wife (to-be at the time) wrote off 2 of my cars , my beloved audi 2.2 coupe, and my ford orion 1.6i ;-)
Yet because I took 3 attempts to her 1 to pass my driving test I am clearly a worse driver than her. I count the number of classic audi-coupe's destroyed as more of an indication than numbers of times it took to do a proper 3-point-turn.
Yet because I took 3 attempts to her 1 to pass my driving test I am clearly a worse driver than her. I count the number of classic audi-coupe's destroyed as more of an indication than numbers of times it took to do a proper 3-point-turn.
Was year was it?!
Nov 18th 2006, 12:35 am
#18
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
Digression :I love the 2.2 whether in Turbo/non turbo mode etc. The 2.0 and 2.1 (112bhp ish) were a lot less powerful - I used to ask owners which engine they had when I test drove them. Beautiful car. It's one of the few cars from the 80s I actually like and revere. I almost sold a much newer BMW to get one...(No I'm not actually a petrol head - I've grown out of that if I was).
Was year was it?!
Was year was it?!
edit : I just remembered the registration : C902 DKK , amazing what your neurons can do when jiggled.
Nov 18th 2006, 12:49 am
#19
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by spalen
I cant remember but she killed it in 1992 - I think it may have been C or D-reg. I bought it for 2000 pounds, she crashed it and I sold it for scrap for 1500 quid and got 1500 from the insurance ! I couldn't believe it. For a while there i was seriously considering making a habit of buying and writing off audi coupe's. I think it was a GT , I cant even remember if it had a turbo - I dont think it did, it wasnt the quattro which was the nutter fast rally car. It was beaut and smelled really old and damp haha.
edit : I just remembered the registration : C902 DKK , amazing what your neurons can do when jiggled.
edit : I just remembered the registration : C902 DKK , amazing what your neurons can do when jiggled.
I test drove a 1987 2.2 136bh basic coupe (why bother with a turbo)with 4wd and loved it. Always been more interested in drivability than speed.
Nov 18th 2006, 9:35 am
#20
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
righto. I've long lost the book which tells me which engine comes in where. Sounds like you might have had either the 112bhp or the 136bhp.
I test drove a 1987 2.2 136bh basic coupe (why bother with a turbo)with 4wd and loved it. Always been more interested in drivability than speed.
I test drove a 1987 2.2 136bh basic coupe (why bother with a turbo)with 4wd and loved it. Always been more interested in drivability than speed.
Well all that put an end to a rather serious subject
Nov 18th 2006, 9:43 am
#21
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Do any of you lot remember what it was like to be be 17 with a set of cars keys, I do. It was bloody great and at the time I thought I was invinsible, now many years later I think back and realise that I should never have been driving and am very lucky not to have been killed or killed someone else. but i suppose most of us could say the same.
Cars are more powerfull these days and youngsters will drive fast and people unfortunaitly will die. All i thinks we can do is bring our childrem up to be as responsible as possible and cross our fingers that they make the correct choices in life, because we are not often around when they are playing at being cool adults.
Cars are more powerfull these days and youngsters will drive fast and people unfortunaitly will die. All i thinks we can do is bring our childrem up to be as responsible as possible and cross our fingers that they make the correct choices in life, because we are not often around when they are playing at being cool adults.
Nov 18th 2006, 10:08 am
#22
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Rather disturbing way the way these kids become almost 'cult heros' son was showing us the pixs on his phone of the kids with RIP painted on the cars, the flowers and hundreds of teens/cars gathered at the scene, the messages stuck to the tree ...............
The problem is its only a matter of weeks/months before you see it all again
, I think at first its terribly touching, then when youve seen it all acted out 5 times and dozens more times on telly in other areas, its not touching its more like when the hell will something be done.
Some are talking curfews, given the stats prove most of these 15 - 20s die in the early hours of sat/sun morning maybe it is a solution. Passenger limits too, doing double the speed limit is not going to impress an empty back seat is it.
Shi! knows how these parents feel this morning.
The problem is its only a matter of weeks/months before you see it all again
, I think at first its terribly touching, then when youve seen it all acted out 5 times and dozens more times on telly in other areas, its not touching its more like when the hell will something be done.Some are talking curfews, given the stats prove most of these 15 - 20s die in the early hours of sat/sun morning maybe it is a solution. Passenger limits too, doing double the speed limit is not going to impress an empty back seat is it.
Shi! knows how these parents feel this morning.
Nov 18th 2006, 1:00 pm
#23
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
It's always the kids.
It's not even the power of the cars, you can still crash in a 1.1 Fiesta. I remember my mother being concerned that my first car was 'big' - a Ford Sierra(!) Her partner told her that in a crash, you're safer in a big car.
It's more a combination of high spirits, inexperience (judgement), fatigue, overcrowding and alcohol - in my opinion - and often the driver will not necessarily have been drinking.
I have now attended 6 crashes on 2 major arterial routes, 2 deaths, 1 intensive care and several hositalisations including the partner of one of the policeman who turns up at most of our incidents who we are on nodding terms with.
There have also been stacks of what we call washaways; crashes or leaks which might cause one. We got to one to find a car on its roof, with a shaken security guard who had crawled out of it. It's amazing the state of the cars.
About a year ago, I attended a fatality. When we arrived on scene, I was first to the car, and a blood splattered arm grabbed my structural jacket and tried to pull me towards him in a panic. It didn't take us long to realise that the driver was deceased. One of the firies didn't feel too good so I was left on my own, standing in front of a dead boy who looked no older than 16 without a mark on him holding a hose in case the car caught fire. They cut him out so as to get to his still alive mates. He was in the way so they left him by the side of the road - which also upset one of the firies. His mate was in a bad way, and died soon after. The third one would not stop screaming.
I spent the next 24 hours driving around looking in all my mirrors and seeing the dead boy's face everywhere I looked. I can still see it even now.
I've also seen a woman trapped under her dashboard with her kids sitting by the side of the road. My wife drove past and called me on her mobile to respond. You can't help but raise your eyebrows at it all and they can see the alarm in your eyes. A young girl narrowly missing a tree but trapped under a collapsed windscreen. Often its the passengers that cop it, the driver saves themselves. What makes me feel bad is that my first response has to be to get a line out and make the scene safe, you've got a rellie or a partner trying to grab you as you get out of the tanker; they're beside themselves, and all the personal possessions are scattered all over the road.
I think you need to tell these new drivers what it looks like in these situations, at 5am in the dusk, those mickey mouse adverts on TV with plastic looking models are just not real enough - just like the one on TV now.
Sorry to be detailed, but it bugs me that its just not rammed home hard enough. I feel priveleged to be able to help these people, it's the only way it is made easier, even constructive.
It's not even the power of the cars, you can still crash in a 1.1 Fiesta. I remember my mother being concerned that my first car was 'big' - a Ford Sierra(!) Her partner told her that in a crash, you're safer in a big car.
It's more a combination of high spirits, inexperience (judgement), fatigue, overcrowding and alcohol - in my opinion - and often the driver will not necessarily have been drinking.
I have now attended 6 crashes on 2 major arterial routes, 2 deaths, 1 intensive care and several hositalisations including the partner of one of the policeman who turns up at most of our incidents who we are on nodding terms with.
There have also been stacks of what we call washaways; crashes or leaks which might cause one. We got to one to find a car on its roof, with a shaken security guard who had crawled out of it. It's amazing the state of the cars.
About a year ago, I attended a fatality. When we arrived on scene, I was first to the car, and a blood splattered arm grabbed my structural jacket and tried to pull me towards him in a panic. It didn't take us long to realise that the driver was deceased. One of the firies didn't feel too good so I was left on my own, standing in front of a dead boy who looked no older than 16 without a mark on him holding a hose in case the car caught fire. They cut him out so as to get to his still alive mates. He was in the way so they left him by the side of the road - which also upset one of the firies. His mate was in a bad way, and died soon after. The third one would not stop screaming.
I spent the next 24 hours driving around looking in all my mirrors and seeing the dead boy's face everywhere I looked. I can still see it even now.
I've also seen a woman trapped under her dashboard with her kids sitting by the side of the road. My wife drove past and called me on her mobile to respond. You can't help but raise your eyebrows at it all and they can see the alarm in your eyes. A young girl narrowly missing a tree but trapped under a collapsed windscreen. Often its the passengers that cop it, the driver saves themselves. What makes me feel bad is that my first response has to be to get a line out and make the scene safe, you've got a rellie or a partner trying to grab you as you get out of the tanker; they're beside themselves, and all the personal possessions are scattered all over the road.
I think you need to tell these new drivers what it looks like in these situations, at 5am in the dusk, those mickey mouse adverts on TV with plastic looking models are just not real enough - just like the one on TV now.
Sorry to be detailed, but it bugs me that its just not rammed home hard enough. I feel priveleged to be able to help these people, it's the only way it is made easier, even constructive.
There was also a problem with kids getting hold of old 'grey' cars - MOT failures, abandonded cars, bought from a scrappy for £20 etc, and driving around in those. Those things were lethal, and there was no registration, road worthyness, no insurance and very often no driving licences between the drivers.
An ex work colleague had her cousin killed in one of those - he was just the unwitting passenger that got into a 'grey' car, and the licenceless driver wrapped it around a tree a couple of mile out of town. Everybody else walked away from it - or ran actually - and within days they were back in another grey, driving around the town.
I don't know how easy it is for kids to get hold of grey cars here, but if parents are involved, at least there is some opportunity to make sure that the car is roadworthy, is insured, and is suitable for the driver.
Bikes were another problem area, particularly theose poxy little things that people bought for thier kids to ride around the pavements terrorising elderly folk. Unfortunately the process system for dealing with offenders is a nightmare, and takes far too llong to be effective. In most cases there is no power to seize the vehicles so they had to be - ahem - disabled on the street. Some of the bigger estates were absolutely terrible, and it was like Le Mans after dusk...
S
Nov 18th 2006, 2:47 pm
#24
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Well all that put an end to a rather serious subject
Just read the rest of these posts.
Kids have been killing themselves for years in cars. It's nothing new, they need a short sharp shock in the most effective way possible and unfortunately this often comes too late, or effects a close one before the message hits home.
Nov 18th 2006, 2:50 pm
#25
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Passenger limits too, doing double the speed limit is not going to impress an empty back seat is it.
There are stacks of measures like curfews that will work.
Nov 18th 2006, 8:41 pm
#26
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
With all due deference to those who have to scrape up the human wreckage on a never-ending basis, I feel more for those innocent road-users who also get involved when one of these P Platers loses it for whatever reason.
There is a truly horrendous attitude of gratuitous irresponsibility prevalent in many Australian drivers and especially the P Platers. It seems to be a badge of office to drive like a prat: something to brag about.
I've said it before, but I believe the P Plate system itself doesn't help. When someone sports a L Plate it shows that he is learning and perhaps not wholly responsible for his driving. The trouble with a P Plate is that the owner has passed a simple test and is allowed to drive with only a few restrictions - but the P Plate itself is often seen as an extension of the "not really responsible" front. I can't see that abolishing it entirely would have any real negative effects and treating the new drivers as they should be - ie held responsible for their driving - would only be to the good.
There is a truly horrendous attitude of gratuitous irresponsibility prevalent in many Australian drivers and especially the P Platers. It seems to be a badge of office to drive like a prat: something to brag about.
I've said it before, but I believe the P Plate system itself doesn't help. When someone sports a L Plate it shows that he is learning and perhaps not wholly responsible for his driving. The trouble with a P Plate is that the owner has passed a simple test and is allowed to drive with only a few restrictions - but the P Plate itself is often seen as an extension of the "not really responsible" front. I can't see that abolishing it entirely would have any real negative effects and treating the new drivers as they should be - ie held responsible for their driving - would only be to the good.
Nov 18th 2006, 10:04 pm
#27
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Thats a new one Wol. Maybe the 'labelling' system backfires.
I tell you what- I feel sorry for them in some ways, having to jump through hoops for so many years. I'd have hated to have done that at 17: I thought the new theory test sat before practical instruction was bad enough in the mid 90s. When I was initially 17, people were still being shown a few questions by the examiner and the park was first introduced.
My wife had a full license issued at 17 but not UK. She has never driven in 15 odd years since and had to start from scratch. I dreaded my wife having to go through L and Ps partly because she might have to pay a high cost out of all proportion to her age for a series of small offences (like a few ks over),
and she could actually drive, and was mature.
Fortunately VIC deem that on completion of practical test she had a complete licence. I didn't want a mum of one going around on Ls or Ps and being on curfews etc. I was secretly glad she got her first hours behind the wheel in spring/summer and not wet and windy and dark winter. I told her, if she can get through the first 3 months, then the first year, she was reducing her chances of an accident big time.
At the end of the day, you're licensing someone to operate between 1 and 2 tonnes of metal.
I tell you what- I feel sorry for them in some ways, having to jump through hoops for so many years. I'd have hated to have done that at 17: I thought the new theory test sat before practical instruction was bad enough in the mid 90s. When I was initially 17, people were still being shown a few questions by the examiner and the park was first introduced.
My wife had a full license issued at 17 but not UK. She has never driven in 15 odd years since and had to start from scratch. I dreaded my wife having to go through L and Ps partly because she might have to pay a high cost out of all proportion to her age for a series of small offences (like a few ks over),
and she could actually drive, and was mature.
Fortunately VIC deem that on completion of practical test she had a complete licence. I didn't want a mum of one going around on Ls or Ps and being on curfews etc. I was secretly glad she got her first hours behind the wheel in spring/summer and not wet and windy and dark winter. I told her, if she can get through the first 3 months, then the first year, she was reducing her chances of an accident big time.
At the end of the day, you're licensing someone to operate between 1 and 2 tonnes of metal.
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Nov 18th 2006 at 10:06 pm.
Nov 19th 2006, 7:06 am
#28
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by Wol
With all due deference to those who have to scrape up the human wreckage on a never-ending basis, I feel more for those innocent road-users who also get involved when one of these P Platers loses it for whatever reason.
There is a truly horrendous attitude of gratuitous irresponsibility prevalent in many Australian drivers and especially the P Platers. It seems to be a badge of office to drive like a prat: something to brag about.
I've said it before, but I believe the P Plate system itself doesn't help. When someone sports a L Plate it shows that he is learning and perhaps not wholly responsible for his driving. The trouble with a P Plate is that the owner has passed a simple test and is allowed to drive with only a few restrictions - but the P Plate itself is often seen as an extension of the "not really responsible" front. I can't see that abolishing it entirely would have any real negative effects and treating the new drivers as they should be - ie held responsible for their driving - would only be to the good.
There is a truly horrendous attitude of gratuitous irresponsibility prevalent in many Australian drivers and especially the P Platers. It seems to be a badge of office to drive like a prat: something to brag about.
I've said it before, but I believe the P Plate system itself doesn't help. When someone sports a L Plate it shows that he is learning and perhaps not wholly responsible for his driving. The trouble with a P Plate is that the owner has passed a simple test and is allowed to drive with only a few restrictions - but the P Plate itself is often seen as an extension of the "not really responsible" front. I can't see that abolishing it entirely would have any real negative effects and treating the new drivers as they should be - ie held responsible for their driving - would only be to the good.
QLD has only just brought back the P plate, its one of the measures they have adopted to cut the fatality/crash rate. Cant see it working, only seen about 6 P plates given most kids get the learners they minute they are old enough think kids are just ignoring it anyway. Amazingly after fri nights fatality last night the screeching and screaming of tyres was on again around 1 am.
Nov 19th 2006, 7:50 am
#29
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
Originally Posted by jad n rich
QLD has only just brought back the P plate, its one of the measures they have adopted to cut the fatality/crash rate. Cant see it working, only seen about 6 P plates given most kids get the learners they minute they are old enough think kids are just ignoring it anyway. Amazingly after fri nights fatality last night the screeching and screaming of tyres was on again around 1 am.
Nov 19th 2006, 8:26 am
#30
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Re: Serious thread - kids and the car culture
I think its all down to peer group pressure. 17 18 19 20yo with 3 or 4 others same age in car, egging each other on, go faster, slide around corners, spin wheels.
If there was no one else in the car then who would they be out to impress?
If there was no one else in the car then who would they be out to impress?
