Big Galah

Yes, well it was the attitude towards integration/non-integration that I had issue with, rather than public/private, so I suppose I was off the point.

Mipik

Our daughter goes to one of the "better" private schools in the city. She does well in there (Year 1 so still a bit hard to tell). We have only one kid so cost is not an issue. We are happy, she is happy. No problems.

I can confirm that kids with special needs are a part of life in private schools. From my daughter school I can see that they are well taken care of and although they follow slightly different program they still are part of the class.

quoll

Oh dear I am sorry to have offended. It is however the case that around here, the exodus out of public schools coincided with the introduction of a strong inclusive education push - often regardless of whether that was what the parents wanted or what the students needed (underfunded and unstructured sitting in a classroom is not IMHO inclusive and does no one any good at all). Many parents perceived that the children who were now part of the mainstream cohort were disrupting their children's education - many of them actually said so as they left and took their kids to private schools. It was generally the behaviour challenges rather than the nice little kids with physical and intellectual disabilities. If that is a reason for parents leaving in droves then I think that needs to be addressed by the education departments, rather than slagging off the parents as snobs with too much disposable income. Either they fund challenging students appropriately in mainstream or they look for alternative programs. I am p*ssed off at the usual departmental rhetoric which implies the parents are snobs - many of them absolutely struggle to send their kids to learning environments which rightly or wrongly they perceive as being better. If they could see that their kids were benefiting from the govt system they would be rubbing their hands in glee and saving themselves thousands. I think it is an indictment that close to 50% of HS students here go to non govt schools - if that is not an indication of client dissatisfaction then I dont know what is.

Having spent the best part of my working life promoting inclusive education - and realizing its failures for not just the included but the group that they are included within I do resent your imputation that I am knocking students with special needs. I believe in horses for courses and not a universal mainstream at all costs philosophy. There are some kids with special needs for whom mainstream is a boon and they have blossomed and there are others for which it is a nightmare and they and their cohort have had absolutely disasterous experiences. Private schools are also obliged (as you would know) under the DDA to take in students with disabilities and many of them do but they also have the capacity to say that meeting the needs of particular students is beyond their abilities.

I really couldnt give two hoots about where my kids' partners come from AFAIK they were both state school students and very nice people they both are as well.

why

my son's girl friend comes from the local state school and she's lovely...that's a mean thing to say about kids..she wishes she had gone to private school..my kids aren't snobs at all and neither are there friends who come from other schools etc.but there's a difference in a class room where you are supported by your peers and teacher to do well and a class where the teacher couldn't be bothered and there is constant bad behavior and no work ethic. thats what you pay for private schools are obliged to create and atmosphere of learning (as are state schools, but they often fail, especially protecting children from rampant bullying even in private schools)

gillysm

Returning to the earlier part of the thread about religion in schools, at my childrens state school they were taught religion by a volunteer from the local Catholic church - there was absolutely no balanced view or other religious instruction. At the Catholic school I moved them to they got religous education on all different denominations although they were well aware they were attending a Catholic school and were able to attend mass if they chose to. The class had a service each term that the students prepared. Strangely there was no particular mass at Christmas or Easter within the school, which I had expected. We are not Catholic and my children have never felt singled out or different, in fact they don't really know who is and who isn't amongst their friends, but both their schools have a strong sense of community and pastoral care is excellent.
A friend of mine attends a local Christian school where her 6 yr old was asked one morning "did anybody go trick or treating last night?" when some of them gleefully put up there hands they were told by the teacher that Halloween was the work of the devil and they would go to hell if they continued to follow his lead..... Also, the childrens names in one Prep class are on the back of the class room door in 2 lists - "church attending" and "non church attending". There are many other similar stories from that particular school.
BTW St Pauls School in Bald Hills (mentioned by Timberfloor) is Anglican (closest thing to C of E you can get here) not Catholic.

Ozzidoc

I don't think that anyone has mentioned the specific school curriculum as a reason for selecting a school, other than religion (or lack thereof).

For example, if you child loves music or languages, it may be that one school is better than another.

My secondary education selection was based on where I could study French.

Cath Lawson

I have been trying to compare schools in the Perth area, but there's so many of them. At least there's a good choice. If we need to go private I have noticed that I can send two of them over there for less money than it costs for one over here.

Ozzidoc - curriculum is important. I am trying to find a school that teaches Spanish for my two. I think starting to try to learn something like Japanese now would confuse my son even more, as he's already struggling with learning 2 different languages.

Cath Lawson

Hi Comet - many schools seem to teach a broad mix of religions now - at least in the UK. My son goes to a school which was strictly catholic and he says they teach them about all different sorts of religions. He doesn't really enjoy the classes though - in fact, he's decided he's an atheist since going there!

inOz2008

And thats the thrust of my questions - are most private schools purely religion-based (it appears to be predominantly Catholic ones throughout Australia, which I suppose reflects the population mix) OR are they also speciality-based eg schools well known for music, sport, arts etc etc. I hope it is the latter. OR is it both ie no matter what, some religious angle is there to get kids into private schools?

Having lived amongst many different cultures myself, I am keen to offer similar opportunities to my kids - similar to some previous posters I would rather my kids sit in the library than listen to one-sided biased religous content. However, based on discussion so far, as a non-Catholic I am concerned as to how I would get my kids into private schools (assuming I can afford to that is!) let alone get them to sit in their libraries!!!

Teach my kids at home???

milly123

Okay, I can see the merits of the "I only want to give my kids the best possible start in life" approach. But if your kids go to to private schools and, say, one day they came home with a boyfriend/girlfriend from the local public school, how would you feel then? Could you truly say you weren't a snob?


80% of people who send there children to private schools are normal hard working , and are just trying to do there best.
There choice.
My eldest daughter went to a grammar school at 14000 pounds a yr. It paid of for us she has a good job in accountancy and is a very confident person. would this of been the same if she had gone to state, who knows, but i did not take the chance.
She has know met and living with a partner, who is in the plastering trade, from state school . She happy, were happy , no problems. we never expected her to come home with prince harry.

milly123

There is not just catholic private, you also have grammar here that are also not to expensive. All though the catholic school don't push the religion side to much. I think you will find it wont affect your children.

gillysm

Most, but not all, private schools follow some form of religion, but that is not their main focus. Within that framework there are schools that specialise in sports (sometimes a specific sport) music, sciences, arts etc. It is a very different system from the UK private schools and I think it's best you check it out for yourself before making any decisions.
As mentioned earlier, I am a non Catholic, my OH is agnostic, my children attend Catholic schools and I do not feel that they are force fed one sided biased religous content.
Private schools also have to take a certain percentage of non Catholic families in order to get state funding so you are as important to them as anyone else.

DadAgain

Most private schools are religious, that doesnt mean there arent curriculum differences and difference emphasis between them. Those that arent religious (i.e. top-price Grammar school) tend to sell themselves as being academic centres of excellence - but the glossy sales-brochures will have lots of pictures of kids with musical instruments and a shot of the rowing team etc etc to show that they excel in all areas.

State schools are no different - some are *known* to be strong sporting institutions, others stronger in the arts, some with strong programs for special needs students etc etc. I'm sure if you look at their glossy sales brochures they will also have the same smiley well-adjusted faces playing in orchestras, wearing safety goggles in the chemistry lab and playing cricket on the school oval.

Unfortunately the following school descriptions will never appear in the official literature:

"Our school excels in sports (as does our country) and culturaly it is a major focus of the student population. Those with sporting prowess will likely achieve social success and adoration regardless of academic ability, but those students focusing on academic pursuits will benefit from gaining valuable experience about what society really values and will get to understand that the majority of their peers have no interest in higher intellectual pursuits. This knownledge will serve them well in life"

or

"Our school is a top achiever academically and regularly sees more of our student achive high grades and attend university than any other school in the region. Although our exam results are unquestionably excellent, this comes at the expense of a rounded education. We have no time to teach students valuable life lessons and lesson time is optimised toward those all important exam results. There is a token gesture of extra curricular sporting activity, but succes or effort in these areas is regarded with ambivalence. The extreme pressure we apply to our students results in a good competetive environment preparing student to be selfish and driven - ready for this cut-throat world. we have an excellent eating-disorder clinic that is widely used by the student body."

To find out what a school is really about you have to look beyond the sales-pitch and really try and talk to parents and students from that school. Good luck to everyone its difficult research to do!

inOz2008

Thank God for that! I use the term God in a multi-faith non-religious kind of way!!

Ok - so now I need to figure out how to compete with other non-Catholics for those limited places!!!

rebnatoli

There are non-denomination private schools, these are more the equivalent to private schools in the UK. In Bayside there are for example Ormiston College and Sheldon College. These are quite expensive although cheaper than the UK equivalents. Most of the Catholic schools have quite low fees and I personally see them as the equivalent of a church school in the UK - there are just a lot more of them - not just Catholic, some are Anglican, Lutheran etc. Don't forget this is Australia and 2008, not the dark ages- I have not experienced any one-sided biased religious content so far otherwise my kids would have left already. They are just very much like normal schools and in all there are a good proportion attending that are not Catholic/Lutheran etc - we are not. The people who are Catholic etc are not in church all the time either a very small proportion are actually practising Catholics at our school. I think all schools here specialise in sport and music and the arts compared to their UK counterparts.