Run it up the flagpole
Jun 23rd 2004, 4:28 pm
#46
The Godfather
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: South East Suburbs of Melbourne
Posts: 7,336
Originally posted by callë
I live in the US but dont have an American flag. I do however have a Union Jack that I have displayed inside my home. since I am not in my own country, I dont want to offend anyone else yet in my home where friends and family may come I am proud to show my affection for my country through a little symbolism. strangely though I've not yet been to Oz I also have an Australian flag. It is a symbol to me of the country I want to emigrate to. flags are just that..symbols. but to sentimental people, such as myself,
if something means something to you there is no harm in displaying that. John Howard is not suggesting you have to fly the flag at your own home, but at public schools. I see nothing wrong with patriotism. In fact I think today too many people see things as all about themselves. shallow really. people need things to look up to and to learn respect.:lecture:
I live in the US but dont have an American flag. I do however have a Union Jack that I have displayed inside my home. since I am not in my own country, I dont want to offend anyone else yet in my home where friends and family may come I am proud to show my affection for my country through a little symbolism. strangely though I've not yet been to Oz I also have an Australian flag. It is a symbol to me of the country I want to emigrate to. flags are just that..symbols. but to sentimental people, such as myself,
if something means something to you there is no harm in displaying that. John Howard is not suggesting you have to fly the flag at your own home, but at public schools. I see nothing wrong with patriotism. In fact I think today too many people see things as all about themselves. shallow really. people need things to look up to and to learn respect.:lecture:
I agree. I have my own St Andrews cross but last Australia day I had a little Aussie flag up on my mailbox lol.
ps. Some bugger stole it.
Jun 23rd 2004, 11:25 pm
#47
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Originally posted by Ceri
By the sickly, ill . pasty look ..ok I'm running now!!!
( seriously though by their accent, and most of my English friends , and associates do fly a jack before a cross)
cheers... opps nearly forgot lol
By the sickly, ill . pasty look ..ok I'm running now!!!
( seriously though by their accent, and most of my English friends , and associates do fly a jack before a cross)cheers... opps nearly forgot
lol
I would never do a Jack (o-er!!) always a cross for me. The rule Brittania thing really shits me and makes me, well, uncomfortable somehow
You still running
Jun 24th 2004, 3:03 am
#48
Y Ddraig Goch
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Body is in Brissie. Heart and soul has long flown home.
Posts: 3,722
Originally posted by hevs
Then your mixing with the wrong English people then:lecture:
I would never do a Jack (o-er!!) always a cross for me. The rule Brittania thing really shits me and makes me, well, uncomfortable somehow
You still running
Then your mixing with the wrong English people then:lecture:
I would never do a Jack (o-er!!) always a cross for me. The rule Brittania thing really shits me and makes me, well, uncomfortable somehow
You still running
. we've got one in the other office, but he comes from Cardiff :scared: lolCan't stand the Jack myself - it's political with me. I'm a republican, it's a symbol of invasion to me. Also, seeing as thousands upon thousands, and thousands, and thousands , and thousands off Welsh people shed their blood , and fought under it in wars for GB, the least they could do is change it so great big dirty dragon goes in the middle of it. lol
cheers
Jun 25th 2004, 11:15 am
#49
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: An expat Aussie trying to understand why anyone wants to move to Oz.
Posts: 485
Originally posted by callë
I live in the US but dont have an American flag. I do however have a Union Jack that I have displayed inside my home. since I am not in my own country, I dont want to offend anyone else yet in my home where friends and family may come I am proud to show my affection for my country through a little symbolism. strangely though I've not yet been to Oz I also have an Australian flag. It is a symbol to me of the country I want to emigrate to. flags are just that..symbols. but to sentimental people, such as myself, if something means something to you there is no harm in displaying that. John Howard is not suggesting you have to fly the flag at your own home, but at public schools. I see nothing wrong with patriotism. In fact I think today too many people see things as all about themselves. shallow really. people need things to look up to and to learn respect.:lecture:
I live in the US but dont have an American flag. I do however have a Union Jack that I have displayed inside my home. since I am not in my own country, I dont want to offend anyone else yet in my home where friends and family may come I am proud to show my affection for my country through a little symbolism. strangely though I've not yet been to Oz I also have an Australian flag. It is a symbol to me of the country I want to emigrate to. flags are just that..symbols. but to sentimental people, such as myself,
if something means something to you there is no harm in displaying that. John Howard is not suggesting you have to fly the flag at your own home, but at public schools. I see nothing wrong with patriotism. In fact I think today too many people see things as all about themselves. shallow really. people need things to look up to and to learn respect.:lecture:
It's not about myself, but abouy everybody's right to choice. Too many things are controlled like this in Australia, it has become a bloody police state.
Jun 25th 2004, 12:07 pm
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Devlin
There is nothing wrong with patriotism, but to force anybody, school, company or other organisation to fly the Australian flag is an infringement on people's choice and is disgusting in my opinion.
It's not about myself, but abouy everybody's right to choice. Too many things are controlled like this in Australia, it has become a bloody police state.
There is nothing wrong with patriotism, but to force anybody, school, company or other organisation to fly the Australian flag is an infringement on people's choice and is disgusting in my opinion.
It's not about myself, but abouy everybody's right to choice. Too many things are controlled like this in Australia, it has become a bloody police state.
State schools are Australian Property, and as such are tied to the Australian Flag.
That's my opinion of it.
Jun 25th 2004, 1:04 pm
#51
Gone Senile Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,014
I own a very large Union Jack - it does have my country of birth included in it. We used to fly it when camping in England. We own an extremely large Aus flag which currently hangs in our hallway. I have a small tricolour for the Republic of Ireland and we also have a large Confederate flag.
We like flying flags
Ah forgot we also just recently acquired a large Holden flag???? - we drive a Ford, might possibly use it for cleaning the car when the water restrictions go
My daughter now knows all the words off by heart of the Australian National Antem cause they sing it so much here - sorry to say she only knows a few words of God Save the Queen. I like the patriotism here, In my opinion only it seems real pride not forced like america or hidden like the UK.
Cheers
We like flying flags
Ah forgot we also just recently acquired a large Holden flag???? - we drive a Ford, might possibly use it for cleaning the car when the water restrictions go
My daughter now knows all the words off by heart of the Australian National Antem cause they sing it so much here - sorry to say she only knows a few words of God Save the Queen. I like the patriotism here, In my opinion only it seems real pride not forced like america or hidden like the UK.
Cheers
Jun 25th 2004, 1:53 pm
#52
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: An expat Aussie trying to understand why anyone wants to move to Oz.
Posts: 485
Originally posted by ABCDiamond
The government is not forcing any individual, or independant organisation to fly the flag.
State schools are Australian Property, and as such are tied to the Australian Flag.
That's my opinion of it.
The government is not forcing any individual, or independant organisation to fly the flag.
State schools are Australian Property, and as such are tied to the Australian Flag.
That's my opinion of it.
State Schools are Tax Payer's property and shouldn't be used for political point scoring - especially when you are infringing on people's choice!
Jun 25th 2004, 5:04 pm
#53
Gone Senile Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3,014
Originally posted by Devlin
State Schools are Tax Payer's property and shouldn't be used for political point scoring - especially when you are infringing on people's choice!
State Schools are Tax Payer's property and shouldn't be used for political point scoring - especially when you are infringing on people's choice!
How is flying a flag infringing on people's choice - agree this debate has been started over a snipit from a paper and has therefore got political but take away the government that said it - what the hell it wrong with it???
There are many many organisations that make you pledge to be part of it, so what is wrong with flying a flag and stating your organisation's beliefs?
Confused?
I am???Cheers
Jun 25th 2004, 11:42 pm
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Devlin
State Schools are Tax Payer's property and shouldn't be used for political point scoring - especially when you are infringing on people's choice!
State Schools are Tax Payer's property and shouldn't be used for political point scoring - especially when you are infringing on people's choice!
It's more like supporting the country you choose to live in, or were born in.
It's a Country Flag, not a Party Political flag.
Jun 26th 2004, 12:09 am
#55
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by ABCDiamond
Political ?
It's more like supporting the country you choose to live in, or were born in.
It's a Country Flag, not a Party Political flag.
Political ?
It's more like supporting the country you choose to live in, or were born in.
It's a Country Flag, not a Party Political flag.
Any other time I would believe there were less cynical motives but right now it is silly season in Parliament. An election is due before Christmas and may even happen in August. Devlin is spot on.
There is nothing wrong with the flags but there are far deeper problems with education that need to be dealt with first. What I fear is an American style sing of the Anthem in class. A country and government has to earn its respect just as any other citizen.
Am I that subversive and evil for not wanting to wave any flag, whether a Union Jack, George X or Southern X.
Remember some of the big flag wavers in History such as Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mau. There are lessons to be learnt there.
Jun 26th 2004, 12:49 am
#56
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Australian public buildings should fly the Australian flag. And also the relevant state or territory flag, if appropriate.
No private institution or individual should be forced to fly any flag, but nor should barriers be placed if they wish to do so (such as the unreasonable planning restrictions that can be applied in the UK).
It seems quite reasonable to me that government schools should fly the Australian flag.
If this is a political issue, it's only because the Australian flag was politicised by a previous Labor government (mainly under Keating in the 1990s) that wanted to get rid of it.
Too many people and institutions in the UK are embarrassed about flying the British flag. When mainstream institutions in a country refuse to fly the national flag, there is a danger that only extremists will do so.
The US is not the only nation that flies its flag with pride (France, Canada etc) and there's nothing wrong with Australia doing so as well.
Jeremy
No private institution or individual should be forced to fly any flag, but nor should barriers be placed if they wish to do so (such as the unreasonable planning restrictions that can be applied in the UK).
It seems quite reasonable to me that government schools should fly the Australian flag.
If this is a political issue, it's only because the Australian flag was politicised by a previous Labor government (mainly under Keating in the 1990s) that wanted to get rid of it.
Too many people and institutions in the UK are embarrassed about flying the British flag. When mainstream institutions in a country refuse to fly the national flag, there is a danger that only extremists will do so.
The US is not the only nation that flies its flag with pride (France, Canada etc) and there's nothing wrong with Australia doing so as well.
Jeremy
Originally posted by bondipom
ABC this is blatant use of playing the patriotic card before an election and an attempt to smear anyone who opposes this as un-Australian and to move attention away from current education policy.
Any other time I would believe there were less cynical motives but right now it is silly season in Parliament. An election is due before Christmas and may even happen in August. Devlin is spot on.
There is nothing wrong with the flags but there are far deeper problems with education that need to be dealt with first. What I fear is an American style sing of the Anthem in class. A country and government has to earn its respect just as any other citizen.
Am I that subversive and evil for not wanting to wave any flag, whether a Union Jack, George X or Southern X.
Remember some of the big flag wavers in History such as Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mau. There are lessons to be learnt there.
ABC this is blatant use of playing the patriotic card before an election and an attempt to smear anyone who opposes this as un-Australian and to move attention away from current education policy.
Any other time I would believe there were less cynical motives but right now it is silly season in Parliament. An election is due before Christmas and may even happen in August. Devlin is spot on.
There is nothing wrong with the flags but there are far deeper problems with education that need to be dealt with first. What I fear is an American style sing of the Anthem in class. A country and government has to earn its respect just as any other citizen.
Am I that subversive and evil for not wanting to wave any flag, whether a Union Jack, George X or Southern X.
Remember some of the big flag wavers in History such as Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mau. There are lessons to be learnt there.
Jun 26th 2004, 1:01 am
#57
Home at last
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Beautiful UK
Posts: 866
I agree with you Jeremy. A flag representing a country, a good country at that, should be displayed proudly on public buildings and in schools where children are learning values.
the previous post... Hitler, Stalin ? there is a big difference in what they stood for. something representing something evil is in noway comparable to a flag representing a free country.
the previous post... Hitler, Stalin ? there is a big difference in what they stood for. something representing something evil is in noway comparable to a flag representing a free country.
Jun 26th 2004, 8:53 am
#58
o_0
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Northern Rivers
Posts: 1,642
Originally posted by bondipom
ABC this is blatant use of playing the patriotic card before an election and an attempt to smear anyone who opposes this as un-Australian and to move attention away from current education policy.
Any other time I would believe there were less cynical motives but right now it is silly season in Parliament. An election is due before Christmas and may even happen in August. Devlin is spot on.
There is nothing wrong with the flags but there are far deeper problems with education that need to be dealt with first. What I fear is an American style sing of the Anthem in class. A country and government has to earn its respect just as any other citizen.
Am I that subversive and evil for not wanting to wave any flag, whether a Union Jack, George X or Southern X.
Remember some of the big flag wavers in History such as Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mau. There are lessons to be learnt there.
ABC this is blatant use of playing the patriotic card before an election and an attempt to smear anyone who opposes this as un-Australian and to move attention away from current education policy.
Any other time I would believe there were less cynical motives but right now it is silly season in Parliament. An election is due before Christmas and may even happen in August. Devlin is spot on.
There is nothing wrong with the flags but there are far deeper problems with education that need to be dealt with first. What I fear is an American style sing of the Anthem in class. A country and government has to earn its respect just as any other citizen.
Am I that subversive and evil for not wanting to wave any flag, whether a Union Jack, George X or Southern X.
Remember some of the big flag wavers in History such as Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mau. There are lessons to be learnt there.
A lot of Americans seriously do wonder what it is their country does for them worth being patriotic about. And a lot of them jump bandwagons and only pay lip service to the idea.
No, you aren't subversive in not wanting to wave a flag, but forgive Australians when they want to, won't you?
We don't have the UK's history, or America's might and influence, so don't begrudge us our partisanship.
Jun 26th 2004, 3:05 pm
#59
Home at last
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Beautiful UK
Posts: 866
sadly, you are right Ulujain. all the years I have lived over here, it is amazing to see day to day the amount of Americans who do jump on that bandwagon and yet turn around and foulmouth their goverment and fellow Americans at the drop of a hat. also given the chance to sue, the are not many here who wouldnt. you here so much about freedom and rights here yet minorities and those who run afoul of the law seem to be the only ones to really get their rights. seems people over here use those 'rights' to excuse their wrongs. Not everyone is like that of course, but far too many are. its really sad. those rights and freedom were founded on good causes but they are abused terribly.
Jun 26th 2004, 10:14 pm
#60
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by Ulujain
No, you aren't subversive in not wanting to wave a flag, but forgive Australians when they want to, won't you?
We don't have the UK's history, or America's might and influence, so don't begrudge us our partisanship.
No, you aren't subversive in not wanting to wave a flag, but forgive Australians when they want to, won't you?
We don't have the UK's history, or America's might and influence, so don't begrudge us our partisanship.
This legislation is blatantly political, along with several other half arsed bills that are currently around. There is no provision for Gay marriage in Australia so why is the government bringing in legislation to ban it? Both sides are playing the game.
I will always question flag waving and its achievements.