A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

I've been pretty p*ss*d off for a couple of days now. Yesterday at work, FD annouces to a room of us that a third of jobs are going to Sri Lanka - Accountants not Call Centre staff for a change.

Surprise, surprise, no management jobs will be lost. They're 'not doing it for cost purposes, but it will make the company more operationally effecient' (My Bum it does!!).

What amazed me is that everyone affected has just accepted it and when the FD said does anyone have any questions, no one asked anything. Every time I knock it around the office (I'm leaving New Years Eve, so I don't care) no one joins me. I really think they're so scared of losing their jobs, they won't even challenge the prospect of losing it.

Anyway, I fully appreciate that this is the way of the world, but I think it's B*ll*cks, especially when bonuses are linked to it's success and 'it's not for cost purposes'.

I better give this an Aussie slant, so is this occurring out there in the same way it's happening over here?


Oh, and one other thing - here's a new cr*p business word 'Up Skinning' - no it's nothing to with drugs - it means getting rid of the lower down staff and only keeping the higher qualified experts.

So in that spirit, I think the company should 'synergise their BS going forward, in order to process map operationally efficiency thereby allowing the factoring in of streamlining without necessarily streamlining their money grabbing *rses).

There, that's me finished. I'm not annoyed by it.........honest.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

As in so many industries and companies, the top management are not bright enough to grasp the difference between "increasing shareholder value by longterm policy" and "incresing shareholder value by short-term expenditure cutbacks".

The second is easy to do - and eventually leads to the collapse of the company.

On second thoughts, they ARE bright enough: their bonuses are never linked to the long term so they will be off to wreck another company before the shareholders get hit.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Agreed.

What's it Downunder for this sort of thing?

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

It definitely does happen here too. my noe EX bank HSBC, has all its call centre staff based in Malaysia. I think this is a disgrace when you consider the amount of people living here who could fill the post and earn a crust from it.

The efficiency take on it really is BS. How is it more efficient to talk tosomeone in another country who, most of the itme, can hardly understand what you are talking about and vice versa.. i got sick of it and moved my finances elsewhere.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

No idea - I'm retired (on a UK pension so watching the exchange rate closely) but, based on looking at other aspects of Oz life I would say it is the same syndrome and probably worse!

I watched my UK company make one bizarre decision after another: the shares dropped to a fifth of their value and this of course was blamed on "external influences". These were very significant, but the way the policies were changed from day to day depending on the flavour of the month consultants certainly didn't help.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

I don't really know but earlier this year I recieved some official documents from an Australian public body which were sent from Singapore.

I am not sure if they were prepared or simply posted from 'offshore'.

G

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Our Commonwealth Bank statements come to us in Scotland variously postmarked Brunei, Malaysia and Singapore!

A work colleague had an accident a few days ago (car skidded on mud and slurry left by a farmer, doing 40 mph in a 60 mph zone) and made a claim to his insurance company - which went to India. He was on the phone for nearly an hour! Dumfries, spell that for me. Where is Dumfries? Scotland? In which county of England is that (mind you in 2002 President Bush asked Charlotte Church which County of England Wales was in)? Why did you have an accident? Shouldn't you have been going slower? On and on it went. I have a protected no claim bonus he kept shouting, just process the so and so claim. Another satisfied customer of a company which outsources its call centre!

As Rog said, short termism - prune costs. Inevitable, alas! Not possible for many I know but the message seems to be to go for an occupation with less risk of your job being given to a cheaper worker in another country. Anything which can be done on a machine, phone or a computer is tailor made for outsourcing.

OzTennis :)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Interesting thing is -alot of companies that went to , say , India are now slowly moving back(and I mean slowly).This is based on customer complaints and bad press but also the attrition rate in some of these centres off shore is HUGE.

The companies returning are not returning in house but outsourcing in UK.Also I was recently on a call to my banks customer care line .I was sure I was through to somewhere off shore judging by the level of english the person had -turns out I was through to a centre in UK!

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Grrrrr!!!

Totally know where you're coming from. We're from East Kilbride & we've been in Perth WA for a year & a half now.
Never a week goes by that I don't get asked something like,"So what was the work situation like in England?", or, "Do they do it that way in England?"!!!
I'm fed up saying, "I don't know! I've never bloody lived in England!!!".

Not that I've got anything against England or the English.... or any other nationality for that matter, but it's sooooooo... annoying when people use England as a generic term for The UK!

The person invariably then says, "You know what I mean. It's the same thing". Grrrrrrr again!!!

I'll bet none of our English buddies who post on this board, and may talk in an accent that sounds like they could be Michael Caine's, or Janet Street-Porter's brother or sister, ever get asked what it was like growing up in Scotland!!

I'm trying to be pretty light hearted here, & hope this doesn't sound like a rant, but it's just so bloody annoying when it happens!:mad:

Apart from that, life is goooooood, & I love living in Oz...

Cheers..... John....

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

I know where your coming from John.

Been in Perth now 15 months. Born and bred Northumbrian.

I've been mistaken for being Irish! Mind you that was afew years ago when I worked near London, most of the other people I spoke to down there didn't even realise I was British.

Keel

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

It's called evolution. We all enjoy the benefits of low-cost production and services. Eg DVD players for £30/$A100 etc. But, when people - especially white-collar workers - have their functions outsourced there is a lot of hand-wringing and the usual crap about poor management.

Of course, there are lots of mistakes being made. Eg too much concentration on cost-reduction in the short term. But outsourcing will continue to rise, because it makes good commercial sense. And it's not new; it's been going on for hundreds of years - firstly products , eg ships, textiles. And now services.

Eg I can get damn good IT people that speak perfect English (which immediately gives them a head start over many Brits and Aussies), are highly qualified and a third of the cost of UK staff.

It's your choice - adapt or die.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

I can partly understand some Aussies not knowing the Geography of the UK (it isn't the mother country and it's a long way away and it won't get taught in schools anymore and fewer migrants % wise are from Blighty), but you shouldn't expect it when you phone your UK insurance company, bank or whatever! There's actually an ad on UK TV which trumpets the fact that you can actually phone the branch of your bank (big deal). It is of course because all the other banks have gone the Indian route or the route of press 1 for this, press 2 for this, press 3 for this then choose from the following options etc.

I am surprised how ignorant some people are within the UK about other parts of the UK - try saying Kirkcudbrightshire to an English phone operator! Some English tennis players I come across don't know the difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow; West and East of Scotland. e.g. A common one is West of Scotland, that's Edinburgh right? No, west is left, east is right, Glasgow is on the left, Edinburgh is on the right!

OzTennis :)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Another profound conversation me and Mrs JTL had was about this very subject.

India has a deficit of payments, i.e. its importing more European and US stuff than it exports. Yet it gets all the bad press about stealing US and European jobs. Thats not fair, its trying to catch up, and its buying more of our stuff than we are buying of theirs.Yet we are whinging about it?!?

There is a ladder here. Countries start at the bottom producing the basics , food, minerals, oil, etc. Then they advance, and produce secondaries like cloth,plastics, chemicals. Then they move up to advanced stuff like toys, moulded plastics e.g. china 20 years ago. Then they advance even more and produce good quality stuff,electronics and toys and rip offs of US and european toys. Then they learn the electronics business, and get better than the west at that. The trick is we are supposed to advance 1 step ahead. Advance or die, or become a 3rd world nation.

Don't whinge, get better,

JTL

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

If Aussie/Australia bashers could be outsourced your job would be the first to go to Bangalore. :D

What happened to UK shipbuilding, textiles etc was not due to outsourcing which is a more recent phenomena. Uncompetitiveness over a longer time period, the penalty for being the first industrialised nation if you like but not outsourcing.

Why did I think the Adam Smith Institute far right think tank would pronounce?

OzTennis :)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Sorry to hijack this thread but i have just been sent this joke, as i have seen a few Scots on this post i just had to post it. Sorry if it causes offense, but made me chuckle.

************************************************** ******

A Scotsman, a sheep, and a dog were survivors of a terrible
shipwreck. They found themselves stranded on a desert island. After
being there for a while, they got into the habit of going to the
beach every evening to watch the sun set.

One particular evening, the sky was a fiery red with beautiful cirrus
clouds, the breeze was warm and gentle; a perfect night for romance.
As they sat there, the sheep started looking better and better to the
Scotsman. Soon he leaned over to the sheep and put his arm around it.
But the dog got jealous, growling fiercely until the Scotsman took
his arm from around the sheep.

After that, the three of them continued to enjoy the sunsets
together, but There was no more cuddling.

A few weeks passed by and, lo and behold, there was another
shipwreck. The only survivor was a beautiful young woman, the most
beautiful woman the Scotsman had ever seen. She was in a pretty bad
way when they rescued her, and they slowly nursed her back to health.
When the young maiden was well enough, they introduced her to their
evening beach ritual.

It was another beautiful evening: red sky, cirrus clouds, a warm and
gentle breeze; perfect for a night of romance. Pretty soon, the
Scotsman started to get "those feelings" again. He fought them as
long as he could, but he finally gave in and leaned towards the young
woman, cautiously, and whispered in her ear...

"Would ye mind taking the dog for a wee walk?"


:)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Exactly. People who complain about outsourcing are the new Luddites.

One point I would add to your post is that the first/second generation outsourcers may, in tun, outsource to other countries. Eg India is now looking to outsource some of its work (originally sourced from the West) to other countries, eg China.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Teacher, you're wrong : go to the bottom of the class. Many products and business processes can be outsourced.

Outsourcing is not a recent phenomenon (don't confuse modern jargon with age-old actions). It is competition that drives the use of outsourcing - whether for products or services.

~100+ years ago Birmingham-made guns (Birmingham Small Arms - BSA) were assembled from parts that were prepared by hundreds of self-employed artisans. It was cheaper and more flexible (the supply could be adjusted to meet demand) Overall it made the company far more competitive and more profitable in the long term. It's exactly the same logic that drives today's companies - getting the best overall balance between cost, flexibility and innovation. Outsourcing is not the issue for most people - after all, if the outsourcing companies were, say, in UK or Oz it would be less of an issue.

No, it's because the outsourcing companies are in India, Russia etc. And I detect the whiff of an air of superiority among some of the posters.

Contrary to what you say, there is no 'penalty for being the first industrialised nation' : there is only a penalty for being uncompetitive. A penalty that will continue to be paid by many companies in the West.

To use a cliche, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

(Just picked this up which is the reason I haven't bitten back sooner)

Son, (or girlie if you are hiding behind a male persona) you are not paying attention! You have school rules to write and you are being moved to the front of the room (from the far right):

I did not say that outsourcing can't be used for goods and services (N.B. a product can be a good or a service, we don't tend to speak of products and services and also note that businesses tend to outsource inputs (labour, materials etc), true, an output of one industry may become the input of another if it doesn't go to the final consumer.

What I did say was that the decline of the basic, traditional industries in the UK was not due to outsourcing but to other reasons, nothing more, nothing less. I also implied that a business getting part of its labour input (but not all) from another country is a modern phenomena and I stand by that - the internet and global communications has made this possible.

Your example of the Birmingham munitions production is an early example of division of labour, specialisation and later mass production being facilitated by standardised parts (Henry Ford must have been impressed). It was probably also a forerunner of what the Nike's of this world do in having their goods produced in sweatshops for peanuts under appalling conditions which would not be permitted by the laws of the country of Head Office! Makes them plenty of profit though so that's all that counts, yeah!

Welders, engineers etc working on the Clyde lost their jobs because yards in other countries could produce ships more cheaply and so they started to win orders from their British competitors. These yards paid their workers less and starting later in the game, they could use more modern machinery and methods and enjoy the economies of scale as supertankers and larger vessels were being built. The British yards, geared up for smaller vessels didn't stand a chance. South Korea, China etc are now doing to Japan what Japan did to the UK.

Just as Japan and Germany appeared to 'win the war' economically compared to Britain because they had to start all over again with more modern industries, we are now 50 years down the road and these economies are toiling because of the new upstarts (plus the effects of unification in Germany's case). South Korea and China will eventually go the same way, they won't be able to sustain growth, new 'tigers' will come along to undercut them and I suppose their employers will outsource too.

Now, a highly profitable successful business (such as RBS Group, profits approaching £10 bill p.a.) sending jobs overseas which can be done via the internet or over the telephone network is not the same scenario as the decline of the basic industries in the UK; nor is the accountants jobs going to Sri Lanka (or wherever).

There are certainly no racial overtones intended (on my part anyway) - the countries which have lower labour costs and speak English tend to be the India's etc of this world. I personally stereotype with India because my insurance company (NU), my telephone provider (One Tel) and my bank (RBS) all have Indian operators - fact, no slur or supposed feelings of superiority intended.

Finally to your 'you aint seen nothing yet' all I can say is that reminds me of Bachman Turner Overdrive bbbbbbbaby.

Thankfully a lot of modern businesses have objectives other than mere profit maximisation. Some are customer driven, some take account of stakeholders other than their shareholders or owners (such as their employees), some have social responsibility, others give ethical trading high priority. As someone else said there is evidence that some businesses which have outsourced have taken note of their customer complaints and have brought the jobs back. One bank even spends millions advertising that you can speak to someone at your local branch which is a jibe at the others who have outsourced. Other businesses are learning that customers don't like the press 1 for this, press 2 for this etc automated response (cheaper but customers don't like it and the NatWest ad is a dig at this also).

I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree but I for one feel better for patronising you in return. :D

OzTennis :)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Did anyone read this?

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f16a4694-3c...00e2511c8.html

The Deputy govenor of the of the People's Bank of China suggested to the US that they should give up textiles, shoe-making and even agriculture probably.

“They should concentrate on sectors like aerospace and then sell those things to us and we would spend billions on this. We could easily balance the trade.�

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

2 errors here. You claimed that outsourcing is a modern phenomenon; it isn't. Firstly, you're confusing the process ('outsourcing') with the overseas location ('offshoring'). Secondly, labour is but one component. The issue is about adding a unit of value for the lowest possible cost; however it's done - by slow, low-paid humans or a fast, expensive robot. What has changed, due mainly to the growth of the internet etc, is that more higher-value, information-intensive tasks can be carried out overseas. So, outsourcing has increased, but it existed before. It just didn't affect white-collar workers to the extent it has and will.


And, contrary to your opinion, it is an example of 'outsourcing' in days gone by. Now, if you have a problem with this, take it up with one of the acknowledged UK experts on outsourcing who uses it as an example in his excellent book. Don't take it personally, but he's the expert and you're not.


Only partly true - the impact of unions in UK and Oz has limited the rate of change. The stability provided by, eg Germany's unions, after the war provided a big contribution to their economic success.

And the very actions of many unions - supposedly to protect their members' jobs - are doing the very opposite (unless they are in the public sector or monopolies).


The fundamental drivers are exactly the same. Today there are companies that will not take advantage of lower cost outsourced or offshored components or services - if they cannot make up for the lost value in other ways they will also go to the wall.


Yes, yes. Very PC. But in the main, the reality doesn't accord with the rhetoric. People are only willing to pay so much to protect the environment. For all their concern re:the environment, most people have environmentally-unfriendly cars etc.

Many businesses have to answer to their shareholders first; which means they have to maximise profit while trying to juggle other objectives. For some organisations (eg 'The Body Shop') the ethical bias has helped them be successful. And more companies see value in doing so - up to a point.


Indeed they have. But at the end of the day most of us work in competitive markets. The market will assume that companies optimise the cost of their inputs. The research indicates that the maximum people will pay for a more ethical service is ~+10%. So, in the longer term, being virtuous and saying 'Hey, we have brought jobs back here. Oh, but we now charge 50% more than our nearest competitor" may not attract too many clients.

Give too much money away and your shareholders* will get rid of you (*by the way, that includes you, say, if you invest in standard pension funds).

5/10 Could do better...

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

1. Apparently, offshoring is now even affecting jobs like dentistry & hairdressing.

You have your teeth/hair removed/cut off entirely in a local "factory", it's then sent to Bangalore, where they fill the teeth/wash cut & style your hair, which is sent back in a box for you to superglue back in place.
Astoundingly, the offshore pay rates are so low it's still much cheaper than having your teeth/hair done at home!
This is so common now that hairdressers may soon be removed from the MODL!
:scared:
Apparently Chefs face a similar threat. Now you can book your table & meal at an Indian restaurant in Brisbane 24hrs in advance. From the online order, your curry is instantly cooked by expert chefs in Bangalore & the meals are couriered back (in volume), only to be microwaved & served to your table when you sit down the following evening. The cost savings are enormous, because the restaurant no longer requires a proper kitchen or any skilled chefs. Just a shelf of microwave ovens!
:eek:

2. Incidentally, most Banks now have a mandatory policy, whereby all FUNCTIONS and PROJECTS which the bank pursues MUST be reviewed for potential offshoring. Interestingly, there is now potential for Australian companies to monopolise on weaknesses in offshoring to the Phillippines/India etc., because most bank projects can only save about 30% overall by offshoring. The quality of the product/service is often a problem though. Because of GMT-Oz time differences & exchange rates, Australian companies can compete with those in Asia and make it worthwhile because a higher quality product/service can often be produced.
:cool:
Interesting eh?
Mike

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

For those that haven't seen this before...

http://tinyurl.com/52g5q

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

What is different today is the communications technology that enables a range of new business to be outsourced where costs would have been a holdup in the past. Call centres, document imaging, accounts processing, medical imaging would have been too expensive in the past to outsource.

Something also of note is what comes around goes around. As China 's and India's economies pick up pace so will their currencies values which will wipe out some of the price competitive advantage they have.

Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea and Singapore are no longer low wage base sweatshop economies however they used to be.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Oh, BRILL!! Grand idea!

You can just imagine it:

'Press 1 to hear Mike whinging about Sydney'

'Press 2 to hear Mike whinging about Aussie IT companies'

'Press 3 to hear Mike telling you how much better the UK is than Oz'

'Press 4 to hear a running update on how much better off Mike is now he's back living in the UK'

YESSSSSSSS!

Sorry, Mike, I couldn't resist: it was just *too* tempting. And anyway, you know I love you really.......!

Anya.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Then the management jobs go to India and what's left, a country that doesn't make any stuff or grow any food.

What is everone supposed to do then?

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

An extremely important question.

The theory (not necessarily practice) is that we move on and make and prepare goods and services where we have a comparative advantage. For example, Dyson (he of the cleaner fame) used to bemoan the state of UK manufacturing; and has now sent manufacturing offshore (Malaysia, I think). So, Dyson now adds the value by designing the new appliances, marketing and distribution.

But, shifting large numbers of people to new jobs is much more easily said than done. Over the next 10 years, the rate of loss of current jobs in Western service industries will far outsrip gains in new areas. Part of the problem is that countries like India, China, Czech etc can do what we do - even in those areas requiring specialist training, doctorates etc, at a far lower cost. So what are we to do? There are no easy answers. The usual comment is something like 'Get involved in occupations that require a lot of human interaction or need you to be on-site' - eg become a hairdresser, a gardener, a GP. But, we can't all cut hair and care for gardens etc. Even parts of these jobs are already being outsourced. Eg X-ray assessment carried out in India for Western hospitals.

What is clear is that skills, education, flexibility and mobility will be key to surviving in the 21st century. For many, the concept of a career (except a career of change) will no longer exist.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Geez, I'm so proud of getting 5 out of 10 from you Mike, I couldn't possible do any better than that! :D

From your above post you seem to be developing an inkling of a social conscience and seem to have thought about the implications of businesses just seeking lower cost alternatives.

A few other thoughts. Due to the population timebomb and the pensions crisis, more short term contracts, more part time work, less chance of a career, more women seeking employment, people being forced to work longer, retire at 65 not 55 (there is the irony, the 'labour saving devices' which we thought would mean shorter working week and shorter working life have indirectly or directly led to the opposite), many tertiary jobs (where 7 out of 10 are currently employed) being outsourced overseas - I reckon the 'proverbial bowel fodder is going to hit the rotating blades in a big way' in the future (and I thank Bryce Courtenay for that quote).

I guess I'm looking at the bigger picture impact of some/most business leaders just looking at the bottom line and ways to improve that. The collective impact of all these business decisions is going to have an enormous effect. Whither the UK (and Australia) later in the 21st century? I'm not denying outsourcing is irresistible and makes commercial sense to a business, I just worry at the consequences of so many actions. What career advice do we give our children? At the moment it's go into the trades because many kids seem to be led like lemmings into careers which can be outsourced! Soon there will be a glut of plumbers, electricians, builders etc as more people move in to take up the higher paid jobs.

5 out of 10 from Mike, I just can't get over that still! I think I'll print it out and make it a 'bums wipe worthy certificate' (Bryce Courtenay thanks again):D

OzTennis :)

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

The company my wife works for is making a fortune in China. Even with the blatant abuse of IP they still make money selling products there. The only way forward for the west is look for opportunities now in the markets. There is little other choice.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Don't listen to the opinionated tw@t Stanton ! I'm with ya sister ! Viva la revolution comrade !!!

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

In my job i provide proffessional services for one of the worlds largest legal firms. They now have a specific and highly successful divison that specialises in assisting firms with their offshoring contracts. This is a growing trend in business - however it is primarily large multinationals that get invoved - for simple economics. To the directors of these companies the equation is simple - do we have any job roles which can be completed else where at a significantly cheaper value? Yes - ok then do it.

I agree that this is short sited and not advisable in the long term. The reason India is so popular is because of its low cost of labour, and relatively speaking, similar culture and low language barrier (compared with Eastern Europe for example).

For the above reason it does not make great economic sense for Australian companies to offshore - the Australian labour cost is relatively low. However - if it is the Aust branch of a multinational - i.e. HSBC then it can be cost effective. So you do see SOME Aussie jobs going offshore. (With the rising Aussie dollar this could potentially increase).

My client has, not surprisingly undertaken a good deal of research in this area. For those interested - here are a few nuggets:

Of the sample (all company directors involved in offshoring) - 0% (thats nobody) admitted that it was a move to improve performance or staff morale. Despite what they may say publicly.
100% agree that the single largest motivating factor was reduced costs.
And that Finance and Accounting seem to be the next areas to be offshored - following basic It/Programming and call centres.

Hope it helps!
Cheers

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Don't take it so hard. I was going to make it 4/10, but I thought "Hey, the guy's a teacher and needs some encouragement."

Of course, if this was Oz, I would be awarding you a cup for breathing and a certificate for putting your underwear on the right way round.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Nothing to do with superioty. People get annoyed when the person on the other end of the line cannot understand them. No 1 problem with overseas call centres.

BM

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

lol. Mike maybe you do have a personality after all. ;)

BM

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Did you guys ever read Charles Handy's book 'The Empty Raincoat'?

In it, Handy explains that, because of the factors you outline here, we must bring up successive generations to become, effectively, one-man corporations, in charge of their own business destiny - and careers. To survive, each of will have to develop strong sales, marketing and financial management skills - and most important of all, the ability to spot a trend, run with it while the timing's good, maximise profits from it, then drop it and then move on the 'Next Big Thing'. Fascinating stuff.

'The Empty Raincoat' was published a few years back, ISTR (1995?) but still worth a read, as the points he makes seem even more relevant today.

Cheers,
Anya.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

A few thoughts:

Amec (large UK engineering company) have offshored a lot of their CAD work to India. It has been a disaster, the quality is abysmal.
A lot of US companies that moved their operations to Mexico, have now moved back to the States. Again, quality was crap.
I've had a mixed bag when dealing with Indian call centres. Dell was totally crap, I'll never buy their products again. OneTel have been ok. I think a lot of companies are going to get sensitive about their offshoring, if they start to lose customers, they'll have to think again.
We elect our government. If offshoring starts to piss off the voters, then government is going to have to get involved.
Lets hope we stay friendly with India & China. What if China, sometime in the future gets an expansionist or militant leadership. They'll have our manufacturing industry & our food production will have nearly all gone. We'd be their bitch & would not be able to stand up to them. I don't want to have to learn chinese.

Our corporations are playing a dangerous game.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

Dell experience with me. Screen on laptop is missing lines, Screen in missing lines in bootup including the Bios. Technician request. Have you updated the video drivers? Indication that technician is not qualified or trained. Nearly every time I have an argument with them and they always eventually agree with my diagnosis. I normally have to point them to known issues with Dell machines and ask if they know a fix yet. The Dell us forums come up the answer much quicker so I now always go there.

HP are worse although I now have access to their Australian call centre who make sense and manage to log a job in under 3 minutes. The Indian centres normally take 20 minutes to log a similiar job.

I am also sure that they write everything down put you on hold take 10 minutes to enter the info then get back to you.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

The company I worked for before started out with getting some work done by contract programmers based in India.

Then they decided to set up their own wholly-owned subsidiary out there and employed a couple of programmers.

Next they thought they would augment the UK support services with support staff in India.

The next bright idea was to take on QA staff in India.

Shortly afterwards telephone support was fully transferred to India, the UK-based QA staff were made redundant and the development team in India grew drastically while the UK-based one shrank.

Net result - products taking 3 to 5 times longer to be delivered. Product quality levels nose-diving, customers getting angry with poor support.

Even worse, in my opinion, some of the UK management seemed to treat the Indian staff really badly, viewing and dealing with them as cheap labour I guess. Because the pay was relatively good and because of the fantastic personalities involved, our Indian colleagues took it on the chin. Still didn't make the way they were spoken to and treated like young children right though.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

A lot of companies offshoring have this illusion that has this endless supply of cheap, well educated labour that wants to work in call centres dealing with our crap. In Bangalore there are plenty of jobs for good graduates & the call centres get the rest, there was a program on earlier this year that showed call centres taking people off the streets.

I can see a customer backlash coming & it's going to end in tears.

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

OzT raises a good point. What should we working in/working for. What is the next killer application in IT (or in any industry) I wish I was a tradesman sometimes, earning 25-50 bucks a hr for an honest days work. I would advise any son of mine to become a tradesman but maybe there will be a glut of builders and chippys.

Luckily if my professional white collar skills go up the spout I can resurrect my old practical skills.

What you need is a profession with
a) technical knowledge base - so not everyone can understand it.
b) people interaction - less chance of automation or off-shoring.
c) well paid(!)
d) inelastic to demand, price ie will always be needed, at a good wage.

My ideal job would be using
-the brains of a graduate, bit of arts, bit of science, bit of analysis but not too
white collar or process-orientated;ie no meetings, no reviews, no workshops, the job is technical but you don't have to analyse it to the cows come home, just be mission orientated and keep up to date.
;not office based all the time, but you'd need good skills in IT to use, write databases, spreadsheets, web programming skills
-customer service,
-people skills (obviously),
-chance to lead by example, teach and train - ie the motivation side
-not mind getting hands dirty - its amazing how lazy people are.
-fitness of say, a SAS trooper, county athlete.
( I add this in so as to blow away the competition lol)
-the practical skills of a tradesman,
-the ""resourcefulness"' of a bushman - ie the x factor..
- a tiny bit of danger (controlled) to put off competition but not so much you can't control it..see what I mean? eg when I used to parachute - this is fairly safe 99.9 of the time....but its seen as dangerous so you get charge extra...get the idea..
and all 45 mins from home...what could I do - any ideas?? :rolleyes:

There must be a perfect job out there!! i thought of tree surgery as you need to be fairly agile to get up the trees...(!)

BM

Re: A Rant About 'Offshoring'!
 

I used to work for Dell. I've never come across such a bunch of greedy, self centered w*nkers in all my life. Absolute bunch of tossers. Example - every morning there would always be brand new Mercs or Porches in the disabled parking spots at the front of the office.

I managed to stick it out nearly 2 years before I was made redundant the day before my twins were born. I wasn't even allowed to return to my desk to get my coat.

I hope they all die.