Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Nov 24th 2006, 5:22 pm
#91
Officially Bewildered
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
Posts: 5,523
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by sassenach
I reckon the welsh ,irish ,scots know its a derogatory remark and thats why they alway deny they are a pom and the english just havent woke up to it yet .
I call my self sassenach because thats what i am ,born in england .
I call my self sassenach because thats what i am ,born in england .
So it doesn't bother you that sassenach is used as a term of derogatory abuse?
Nov 24th 2006, 5:29 pm
#92
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Sunny_Glesga
I have just read through most of this post and thought this would be a good place to ask this:
My OH is planning to get a tattoo at the top of his back which anyone will be able to read from what i think 20metres away, which will read!
Son Of Scotland
Do you think this would be wise?
or will he get a few bashings?
My OH is planning to get a tattoo at the top of his back which anyone will be able to read from what i think 20metres away, which will read!
Son Of Scotland
Do you think this would be wise?
or will he get a few bashings?
Nov 24th 2006, 5:51 pm
#93
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by sassenach
I didnt get my england tattoo until i got to australia ,somehow living here has made me more proud of the fact i was born in england
I have always been proud of my country, yet I was never a patriot. But living in the UK has made me so.
If I had a £ for every joke, quip, and cheap shot I've taken for being Australian, I'd have enough for a flight home - possibly even business class. But it's no big deal; the overwhelming majority of them have been good-natured.
Nevertheless, even after nearly three years of living here, I still get sarcastic "convict" comments. Fortunately, they are easy to dismiss; I merely point out that (a) my father was English and emigrated to Australia in the 60s and (b) my maternal grandfather was English and emgirated to Australia after WWI (in which he served). There are no convicts on either side of my family - and if there were, I'd be proud of the fact (as most Aussies with convict descendents are)!
What does irritate me is when the Poms dismiss the entire population as "a bunch of convicts". This breathtakingly arrogant dismissal of Australia's multicultural society never ceases to amaze me.
Since 25% of Australians are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, the old "convict" jibe is as irrelevant as it is ignorant. I would put it on the same level as the old "Poms don't wash" thing, which I personally find very childish and rather offensive.
Nov 24th 2006, 5:52 pm
#94
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by sassenach
i was always under the impression prisoner of his/her majesty
For some strange reason it continues to resurface (possibly because a certain type of English person derives a sneering sense of superiority from it) but hey, that's true of most urban legends.
Nov 24th 2006, 7:16 pm
#95
Banned
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,140
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
This is a venerable myth which has been comprehensively debunked on many occasions.
For some strange reason it continues to resurface (possibly because a certain type of English person derives a sneering sense of superiority from it) but hey, that's true of most urban legends.
For some strange reason it continues to resurface (possibly because a certain type of English person derives a sneering sense of superiority from it) but hey, that's true of most urban legends.
The truth is you can't prove nor disprove that. I like the idea that it is true.
Nov 24th 2006, 7:45 pm
#96
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Asia Pacific
Posts: 4,922
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Dreamy
So it doesn't bother you that sassenach is used as a term of derogatory abuse?
Nov 24th 2006, 7:52 pm
#97
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2006
Location: Linton Travel Tavern
Posts: 163
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
I can relate to that.
I have always been proud of my country, yet I was never a patriot. But living in the UK has made me so.
If I had a £ for every joke, quip, and cheap shot I've taken for being Australian, I'd have enough for a flight home - possibly even business class. But it's no big deal; the overwhelming majority of them have been good-natured.
Nevertheless, even after nearly three years of living here, I still get sarcastic "convict" comments. Fortunately, they are easy to dismiss; I merely point out that (a) my father was English and emigrated to Australia in the 60s and (b) my maternal grandfather was English and emgirated to Australia after WWI (in which he served). There are no convicts on either side of my family - and if there were, I'd be proud of the fact (as most Aussies with convict descendents are)!
What does irritate me is when the Poms dismiss the entire population as "a bunch of convicts". This breathtakingly arrogant dismissal of Australia's multicultural society never ceases to amaze me.
Since 25% of Australians are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, the old "convict" jibe is as irrelevant as it is ignorant. I would put it on the same level as the old "Poms don't wash" thing, which I personally find very childish and rather offensive.
I have always been proud of my country, yet I was never a patriot. But living in the UK has made me so.
If I had a £ for every joke, quip, and cheap shot I've taken for being Australian, I'd have enough for a flight home - possibly even business class. But it's no big deal; the overwhelming majority of them have been good-natured.
Nevertheless, even after nearly three years of living here, I still get sarcastic "convict" comments. Fortunately, they are easy to dismiss; I merely point out that (a) my father was English and emigrated to Australia in the 60s and (b) my maternal grandfather was English and emgirated to Australia after WWI (in which he served). There are no convicts on either side of my family - and if there were, I'd be proud of the fact (as most Aussies with convict descendents are)!
What does irritate me is when the Poms dismiss the entire population as "a bunch of convicts". This breathtakingly arrogant dismissal of Australia's multicultural society never ceases to amaze me.
Since 25% of Australians are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, the old "convict" jibe is as irrelevant as it is ignorant. I would put it on the same level as the old "Poms don't wash" thing, which I personally find very childish and rather offensive.
If we are succesful in getting to Oz, I will be disappointed if I DON'T get called a whinging pom. I'm staggered about the news item where "pom" is being campaigned against. Far too many people are far too sensitive. Part of the attraction of escaping from the UK is the complete PC overkill where you can't say anything.
There are lots of thin skins and narrow shoulders here by the sound of it!.
I don't want to move to Oz and be English, I want to live as an Aussie. Who in their right mind expects the incumbent population to change because they've arrived?
That's what jarrs me off about the UK. If Oz goes the same way, I'll have to look for an alternative destination.
North Korea perhaps?...........
Yours, vented
Nov 24th 2006, 8:01 pm
#98
Now an expat!
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 155
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by nicola411
What really winds me up is the way they constantly call us poms on the radio and tv with reference to the ashes. Cant they at least have a little respect. I cant believe they wouldnt even let the english supporters sit together at the first test. Ridiculous and bad sportmanship I say.
Last edited by MonkeyBoySteve; Nov 24th 2006 at 8:12 pm.
Nov 24th 2006, 8:06 pm
#99
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Godzone, utopia, Paradise Island under the sun.
Posts: 1,177
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
lts no more offensive then calling an American a Yank. There was some case recently in OZ where they declared that calling someone a Pom is'nt a racist comment.
Nov 24th 2006, 8:06 pm
#100
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Wife Beater
The truth is you can't prove nor disprove that. I like the idea that it is true.
The original claim is based on the foolish notion that English convicts wore suits emblazoned with the acronym "POM", for "Prisoner Of [His] Majesty" (common alternatives are "POME", for "Prisoner Of Mother England" or "Prisoner Of [Her] Majesty's Empire").
The very fact that we have such varied interpretations of this alleged acronym is evidence itself that the stories accompanying them are apocryphal.
Moreover, these stories collapse under the slighest investigation.
Firstly, the slang terms "Pom" and "Pommy" are found no earlier than 1915 (considerably later than the convict era).
Secondly, convict life is well-documented by a copious amount of historical evidence - from which we learn that the mythical "POM" or "POME" suits never existed.
In fact, as every Australian schoolchild knows, the symbol most closely associated with convicts is a vertical arrow, which appeared on the suits issued to convicts and can still be found on convict-made bricks in Australia (and particularly Tasmania).
See attached for an example; here for an informative link.
Nov 24th 2006, 9:32 pm
#101
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,066
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
I think you will find it is in the way the word Pom or Pommie is said to you, if anyone says it to me in a harmless joking form I would not be offended at all but it can be said in quite a different way that infers agression/put down and that's when I would be offended.
Originally Posted by Tuxtrip
Why would an Englishman be offended at being called a Pom or a Pommie? It's just another one of the many Aussie slang words - it's not derogatory in any way. The Aussies are infamous for their slang, just as the Brits have their own version. Aussies shorten everything - it's just their way. When it comes to sport, the Aussies play the Poms, the Pakies, the Kiwis, the Wogs, etc. There is no disrespect intended. Brits quite opening call Australians Aussies and New Zealanders Kiwis - they are not offended by this and nor should Brits be when it's the other way around.
There will always be exceptions to the rule, when slang is used with an element of menace. To opening insult all Aussies, or any race for that matter, because a handful of them portrait this image is reckless and could well be construed as racism in itself.
By the way, Scots will always be Scots (or Haggis's!!) to the Aussies because Jocks are something boys wear!!
There will always be exceptions to the rule, when slang is used with an element of menace. To opening insult all Aussies, or any race for that matter, because a handful of them portrait this image is reckless and could well be construed as racism in itself.
By the way, Scots will always be Scots (or Haggis's!!) to the Aussies because Jocks are something boys wear!!
Nov 24th 2006, 9:34 pm
#102
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,066
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
And as I said earlier as we are all free immigrants and were never prisoners technically we are not Pom's anyway.
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
Well yes, I can disprove it.
The original claim is based on the foolish notion that English convicts wore suits emblazoned with the acronym "POM", for "Prisoner Of [His] Majesty" (common alternatives are "POME", for "Prisoner Of Mother England" or "Prisoner Of [Her] Majesty's Empire").
The very fact that we have such varied interpretations of this alleged acronym is evidence itself that the stories accompanying them are apocryphal.
Moreover, these stories collapse under the slighest investigation.
Firstly, the slang terms "Pom" and "Pommy" are found no earlier than 1915 (considerably later than the convict era).
Secondly, convict life is well-documented by a copious amount of historical evidence - from which we learn that the mythical "POM" or "POME" suits never existed.
In fact, as every Australian schoolchild knows, the symbol most closely associated with convicts is a vertical arrow, which appeared on the suits issued to convicts and can still be found on convict-made bricks in Australia (and particularly Tasmania).
See attached for an example; here for an informative link.
The original claim is based on the foolish notion that English convicts wore suits emblazoned with the acronym "POM", for "Prisoner Of [His] Majesty" (common alternatives are "POME", for "Prisoner Of Mother England" or "Prisoner Of [Her] Majesty's Empire").
The very fact that we have such varied interpretations of this alleged acronym is evidence itself that the stories accompanying them are apocryphal.
Moreover, these stories collapse under the slighest investigation.
Firstly, the slang terms "Pom" and "Pommy" are found no earlier than 1915 (considerably later than the convict era).
Secondly, convict life is well-documented by a copious amount of historical evidence - from which we learn that the mythical "POM" or "POME" suits never existed.
In fact, as every Australian schoolchild knows, the symbol most closely associated with convicts is a vertical arrow, which appeared on the suits issued to convicts and can still be found on convict-made bricks in Australia (and particularly Tasmania).
See attached for an example; here for an informative link.
Nov 24th 2006, 9:38 pm
#103
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,066
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by paulrachel
Why not? if he is proud of where he comes from then go for it!
I also see many other things like car reg names with Scotland or other place names, which shows they must want others to know where they come from, or other things like Arsenal etc...
mind you i have seen some real funny ones too, Commando, Utopia ,
daft lass, midlfecrisis!!
I also see many other things like car reg names with Scotland or other place names, which shows they must want others to know where they come from, or other things like Arsenal etc...
mind you i have seen some real funny ones too, Commando, Utopia
,daft lass, midlfecrisis!!
A number plate or shirt or easy to change if the need arises a tattoo is not.
Nov 24th 2006, 10:05 pm
#104
Timelord
Joined: May 2006
Location: Lost in space...
Posts: 2,834
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by ali south
Today my son returned from school (non uniform day) on the bus wearing an England shirt. A guy approx 25 years old sat next to him and told him how much he hated the English for taking over the country. My articulate 15 son held his own verbally but the situation could have turned out far worst possibly quite violent after the response Jack gave.
Both my teenagers find the anti English attitude difficult.
Have your kids or you experienced this? How do you cope, what do you say to the kids? We know the history so they have a good verbal comeback but how do you help them through this?
Thanks
Tara
Both my teenagers find the anti English attitude difficult.
Have your kids or you experienced this? How do you cope, what do you say to the kids? We know the history so they have a good verbal comeback but how do you help them through this?
Thanks
Tara
My former business partner in the UK is a German national married to an Englishwoman. His then 8 year old son attends a local private school, and during the 2002 World Cup the pupils were allowed to go to school early to watch the games.
On the day England met Brazil in the quarter final he sent his son to school in his German strip... Top, shorts & socks... The full monty... :scared:
His son was very quiet when collected by his mother that afternoon and when he got home he took all his clothes off and informed her he would never wear them again...!
As far as I know they still don't know exactly what was said to him, but I guess you don't need to...!
Nov 24th 2006, 10:11 pm
#105
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,940
Re: Racism - have your kids or you experienced this, mine have?
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
I can relate to that.
I have always been proud of my country, yet I was never a patriot. But living in the UK has made me so.
If I had a £ for every joke, quip, and cheap shot I've taken for being Australian, I'd have enough for a flight home - possibly even business class. But it's no big deal; the overwhelming majority of them have been good-natured.
Nevertheless, even after nearly three years of living here, I still get sarcastic "convict" comments. Fortunately, they are easy to dismiss; I merely point out that (a) my father was English and emigrated to Australia in the 60s and (b) my maternal grandfather was English and emgirated to Australia after WWI (in which he served). There are no convicts on either side of my family - and if there were, I'd be proud of the fact (as most Aussies with convict descendents are)!
What does irritate me is when the Poms dismiss the entire population as "a bunch of convicts". This breathtakingly arrogant dismissal of Australia's multicultural society never ceases to amaze me.
Since 25% of Australians are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, the old "convict" jibe is as irrelevant as it is ignorant. I would put it on the same level as the old "Poms don't wash" thing, which I personally find very childish and rather offensive.
I have always been proud of my country, yet I was never a patriot. But living in the UK has made me so.
If I had a £ for every joke, quip, and cheap shot I've taken for being Australian, I'd have enough for a flight home - possibly even business class. But it's no big deal; the overwhelming majority of them have been good-natured.
Nevertheless, even after nearly three years of living here, I still get sarcastic "convict" comments. Fortunately, they are easy to dismiss; I merely point out that (a) my father was English and emigrated to Australia in the 60s and (b) my maternal grandfather was English and emgirated to Australia after WWI (in which he served). There are no convicts on either side of my family - and if there were, I'd be proud of the fact (as most Aussies with convict descendents are)!
What does irritate me is when the Poms dismiss the entire population as "a bunch of convicts". This breathtakingly arrogant dismissal of Australia's multicultural society never ceases to amaze me.
Since 25% of Australians are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, the old "convict" jibe is as irrelevant as it is ignorant. I would put it on the same level as the old "Poms don't wash" thing, which I personally find very childish and rather offensive.
Bruce & Sheila can be extremely arrogant too.