debbiemc

has anyone out there whilst applying for migration come accross an ex partner who has redused consent for their children to leave the country even if the child/children are in my sole custody? not yet happened because not yet asked!!!! but want to explore any options should there be any difficulty. have an appointment with solicitor!!!
would be very interested to hear any replies from anyone who might have come up against anything similar,
thank you

lindseyden

Hi Debbiemc

There's lots of info on this subject if you do a search. It also causes a lot of emotive feedback but good luck

Lindsey

tiredwithtwins

hi debbie,
if you do a forum search you will find several posts on this subject!!
unfortunately it does happen, and if the ex says no then there is very little you can do, unless there are extenuating circumstances i think.
my own story? well my partner and i were going to emigrate, but i decided the problem wasnt that i wasnt in oz, it was because i was with him. so we cancelled our plans and separated (but have agreed to try again!.) However, when we first separated he quite firmly said there was no way he would allow me to take his kids out of the country, and the courts would agree with him. ( i wouldnt want to deprive the kids of his input into their lives but thats another arguement that no doubt someone else will pipe up on!!!!)
I think unless the ex has absolutely no contact/input then the courts would side with his wishes.
As i say, try a forum search, and bump this back up to the top when our aussie friends are online, there are quite a few who went through battles to get the permission to bring their kids out to aus!!
good luck!
sue

debbiemc

thank you for that lindsey, any clues as to where to start the search

lindseyden

Hi Debbie

Here's some to be going on with, if you need any more let me know
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...order+children

There's lots more where they came from. LOL there's lots of us about..............

Lindsey

JAJ

Leaving side legalities completely, if children have a healthy relationship with the ex, then one should think hard before migrating to Australia. Especially if the children are younger - it may be less of an issue if they're teenagers as holidays and phone contact can make up for it more at that age.

In other cases, again involving teenagers, the children may even decide to stay with the ex, and sometimes get sponsored themselves later on (at 16 or 17). Sponsorship of a natural child aged less than 18 is normally straightforward provided the child was declared and did medicals at initial PR visa stage for the migrating parent.

It's a different situation (morally) where children have no involvement at all with the ex, and courts may be more inclined to take this into account where the worst comes to the worst. But - every case is different.

Jeremy

andrew63

Debbiemc
I have just been through the very situation.
Worst still in prinicipal and verbally me ex agreed to allow me to take our daughter to Australia. My daughter has been living with me for 7 years (she is 13 now) and I remarried and we have two more children (3 & 7). My ex had not seen her daughter for close to 4 years despite an open invitation at my expense, similarly, she would not allow my daughter to go and see her.
I had a Court Agreement that stated quite clearly that she lived with me and it even stated that ANY country is permittable.
The AHC decided that the Court Agreement was not good enough! Their reasons being that when my ex signed it, she had not considered that i may move to Australia (I suppose they had a point!)
When it came to consent, she decided to say no for her own "selfish" reasons and I had to go through solicitors, barristers, family court and high court all of which cost a fortune and delayed the whole process. She was using Legal Aid, I was using my earnings.
Summary is that I won (June 2004)!
If I can help you in any way, I will, but as JAJ syas, if there is a bond between the ex and the child, then it will be tough to break.

Andrew

debbiemc

morning andrew,
thanks for the reply. things are so up in the air at the moment and i'm just waiting to find the right time to ask him for his consent. we do not have a very amicable relationship and only speak if we have to regarding the kids. part of me thinks he will say yes because thats what they want and are old enough to make choices for themselves. then on the other hand i know he could quite easily say no for selfish reasons and not just that he wont see his daughter. this is not something that i take light heartredly as some would think by a couple of replies i've had!! and yes if the shoe was on the other foot i too would probably find it very difficult to say yes, however, the relationship is not good as it should be between father and daughter which she is finding out for herself. i'm wondering if a judge would take into account a teenage child being 'gillick competent' and that she can make her own rational decisions. i'll let you know thew outcome and thank you for your response, i wish you much luck in your new lives
debbie

andrew63

Debbie
I wish you luck!
The AHC actually has a standard consent form that you can use. You both sign in front of solicitors. This is much cheaper than getting solicitors to draft up agreements! I can email you the copy they sent me otherwise you should contact them yourself for the form or trawl through their web site for this form as there may be different/newer versions.
Ironically, even though my ex refused to see our daughter for 3.5 years, now we are going to Australia I had to agree to pay for her to come over once every other year to see her and alternate years bring her back to the UK to see her! Of course in Court she declared that I had prevented her from seeing her daughter but had no proof and the judge asked why she had not pursued access through the Courts if that was the case! The judge said the whole Court case was a sham and a waste of money and apologised to me but also said I cant claim costs back from Legal Aid. I won't miss the English Court System!
You may find that you will need to agree to "visits" but if your ex is employed then maybe not at your expense.
I have already booked my ex-s first "free holiday" with Iraq Air. I do not expect she will want to see her daughter in the UK the year after if she is true to form.

Andrew

JAJ

If your document gave you legal rights to take her out of the UK without a court order, then it's not clear that the AHC properly applied DIMIA's own policy.

Without seeing the specific case, a referral to someone in DIMIA Canberra might have been productive. And if you had a sponsored application, appealing to the Migration Review Tribunal might also have been an option if the AHC had refused the application.

Jeremy

debbiemc

thank you i'd appreciate a copy. well done anyway and good luck in brisbaine. it would soooo go thru me if i had to pay for my ex's ticket LOL!!!

andrew63

Jeremy
Hmmm, I had an Australian Solictor (migration agent, trained in England as a solicitor), and my English family Law Solicitor as well as my barrister and the judge ultimately declaring that this should never have been brought before the Courts as the initial order was unambiguous and very clearly stated that my daughter could reside with me outside the jurisdiction of England in any country that I desired. The solicitor at AHC rejected it much to the surprise of my agent and solicitor for the reasons I gave above. I had three choices:
a) give up (but I had sold my house already as all solicitors/agents etc were convinced there would be no problem)
b) go through the courts (expensive and time consuming but 100% certain of success)
c) try and complain about the AHC decision

I would like to have gone for option c) but when you are applying for your visa it does not bode well to complain? I think. Ironically, when the court order was amended (with the comments made by the judge to make it even more unambiguous), I tried to contact the AHC solicitor to moan a bit but he had since left! In my opinion, probably sacked for just this very reason. If there is way to complain in retrospect and try to claim back some of the UK£10,000 this cost me and 9 months rental, storage of goods, and 9 months of property value increases, I would dearly love to do so. This excludes all the stress and grief we had to go through as well asmy daughter haing to be questioned by the Court officers etc. What a waste of time.
Not a good start to our new life

Is there anyway to do this now? Is there any point if I will not get any money back? I have the visa. The AHC solicitor has left.

I can email you a copy of the "original" order if you want to see it

I (and my family) feel very violated but we are "positive" and moving on, poorer and wiser, but happy.

Andrew

andrew63

Debbie
That will be on my home PC so I'll send you it tonight by PM.

Andrew

SonjaNTony

Hi Debbie
My ex has said he will sign consent forms for me too take my three boys to Oz (i also have another son and daughter) but he hasnt yet signed them but i dont trust him but as he is moving to Spain in the next few weeks i dont know whether he can object to me taking them,but ive had to put in the contract that i will pay for him to come over every other year
Keep me up to date with your situation
Sonja

stepnek

Just browsing around the forums and saw this thread so I thought I'd just mention my own experience even though we are moving to Canada. Really just to say that my 14 year old daughter from my first marriage is coming with us and the first time this idea was mentioned to her Mum she was completely against it and under no circumstances would she allow it. So we stepped back, didn't push it and held off a while. Gradually over time my ex-wife has got used to the idea and in the end felt like it would be a great oppertunity for our daughter. Now she is looking forward to visits to Canada herself and was happy to sign the consent form. Obviously everyone is different but in our case time and paitence allowed us to move ahead with our plans although I do know that we are fortunate.

Sorry to mention Canada in the Australia forum!