ABCDiamond

How many people think that government funds for Private Schools should be cut back ?

A recent report that I read says that:
Government funds pay for 95% of a State School childs education
but only 39% of a Private School childs education.

If ALL private school children were to be put back into the State system, there would not be enough funds available to provide the current level of education without increasing taxes.

Almost every parent pays a portion of their Taxes to go towards education.

It appears that the "more expensive" private schools only receive about 13.7% of funds whilst those in "lower income" areas receive up to 70%.

jayr

I like that 'but' as though it seems unfair. I would have worded it differently:

Government funds pay for 95% of a State School childs education, and amazingly your hard earned tax dollars also subsidises 39% of the cost of education of those rich bastards sending their kids to private schools!

No wonder private schooling seems relatively cheap in Oz - I'm paying for priviliged kids to get a top class education whilst my kids go to state school.

You may guess at the way I voted.

ABCDiamond

I was tempted to put it a different way From the view of a Private School parent, who may say something like:-

" My Taxes are going towards paying for 95% of the education of those children going to a state school, but my kids only get 39%, no wonder I have to pay higher private fees!, We have to subsidise the State schools! "

It all depends how you look at it

Bix

Mmmmm.....you both made me think there

Guess it will depend somewhat as to which side of the dollar fence you sit.
(Oh, and I am not inferring J is poor and ABC is rich)

I am swayed toward the idea that if a State provides education for the masses then anything outside of that should be paid for by the individual not wishing to use it.

However I am not totally decided so will come in as a neutral and watch the debate.

renth

Has the election already happened?

Most of the kids who go to private school in Australia are not priviledged.

It is being argued by Latham that there are some "elite" schools that are going to receive a funding cut, but that money isn't going to the government schools sector but to modest fee private schools and Catholic schools in particular.

ABCDiamond

Not rich anymore, after paying for school uniforms and fees!! She needs a new school hat and Blazer in 2006, I think I may need to get a job soon to pay for it.

Actually I had always been against Private schools, and only chose them here as they are so inexpensive, less than the amount of cigarettes that I used to smoke when I was younger. And its since then that I have realised, and become interested in, how the financial system works for schools.


I personally think that it is good for the overall system to have private schools, so that those parents that can afford it, can cover an extra part of their childrens schooling.

eg: If the total education costs come to say $5,000 million, and you have 1 million kids, then an equal share of education costs would be $5,000 per child

If half of them go private and get 50% paid for by the Tax Funds, then each Private School child gets $2,500 with the balance paid by the parent.
But that then leaves $7,500 for each State school child, a 50% increase on what would be available if every child went to a State school.

If these figures are correct, then it seems advantageous to the State School system to have as many as possible going private, and leaving more funds available for those staying in the State system.

J0E

The problem with issues like this is that I have to argue with myself for about half an hour on the rights and wrongs of the situation before replying - but anyway, of course every kid needs an education and in an ideal world they should all be entitled to the highest level of education possible (afterall it's not the kids fault which class they were born into and they should all be given the same chances). However, there will always be that split between rich and poor. Those who can't afford private schooling have no choice but to send their kids to state school and all the money has to come out of the big gov taxes pot. So those who 'choose' to opt out of this and send their kids to private school should expect to have to pay for it - I would. But to add a very selfish twist, I may have to reconsider now that I know the gov pays towards it

ABCDiamond

That's why we can afford it here.
Most private schools we look at charge between about $2,000 and $5,000 per year. Without the partial tax funding, we would have to stay with State schools. I spent a lot more than half an hour thinking about it

MrsDagboy

Yep, cos you choose to not use the state school system, as jayr & bix have said .

Of course, the problem lies in the infrastructure & facilities of the schools - as we once discussed before, state schools barely have enough money to pay their electricity bills, whereas private schools have money to burn. Moreton Bay Boys College has enough money that they can afford a huge fence around the perimeter & a 24 hr caretaker, our school cant do that! So someone broke into our school & stole an air conditioner, more money that the P&C has to try to find to replace it. Similarly, the computer situation, where private schools have literally dozens of computers & state schools have 1 or 2 per classroom at best.

BTW, where do people like us fit, ones that can afford private easily, but still choose state?

bridiej

I think people should have the choice, but whether the education is better depends more on the pupil than the school.

For example, I went to private boarding school from 11 to 16 and came away with two GCSEs becuase I couldnt be arsed to knuckle down and do the work. My husband, on the other hand, went to a local comprehensive and came out with 9 CSEs / Olevels, can't remember which (he's slightly older than me hence the different quals).

So more has to do with whether the child actually wants to learn - I always had the ability to be a brainiac but just didnt have the application!

ABCDiamond

You can still choose an option Should funding be cut to private schools ?

I'm trying to find out if people are actually aware of how the funding system does work, and what the consequences would be if private schooling was abolished, as I have heard some individuals say (not on these forums though, yet )

I just found some info for 2001, which says that the average Tax funding per student was:
Government schools $ 8,957
Non-Government $ 4,870
Independent $ 3,850
Total funding for that year was $32.8 Billion and, by my calculations, the number of children was about 5 million.

If no child went into private schools, and those 5 million kids each had $8,957 spent on their education, the education budget would blow out to $45 billion, the extra $12 billion having to be paid by the average taxpayer.

From what I can see, the more people that can be persuaded to use Private Schools, then, in theory, the more money is available per child in State Schools.

MrsDagboy

I chose an option in the poll, voted yes, funding should be reduced .

The problem with your theory is that, unless I am mistaken, the private schools get their percentage based on student numbers etc. If they get more students, their funding increases. So assuming that the allocation of funding to the education system remains the same (most likely), the more kids there are in private schools, the worse off the state school system is.

ABCDiamond

From what i've read, the funding is based on the SES (Socio-economic Status) score range, calculated by the average income in the childs area. The higher the score the smaller the % given to the school.

These %'s are from 13.7% for the highest income area to 70% for the lowest area. These %'s are then worked out on a figure per student. From some figures I have here, the end result is between $830 and $5,615 per child will go to the school.

So with the Elite schools, they will should be only getting $830 per child. Schools in the lowest SES areas should therefore get $5,615. Compared to the $8,937 per student in State Schools.

chocaholic

The best schools around here as far as I know are the selective Grammar schools (state schools) but your child probably has to be a genius before he/she gets in there.

I have a couple of friends who send their kids to Knox at $15,000 each kid per year. I know they add to their mortgage to pay for this education - like many other parents, apparently. I wonder if they will be able to keep that up if the fees significantly rise. As far as I can see, alot of the families sending these kids to private schools aren't "filthy rich" at all.

They said they could see a marked improvement in their children's performance after a short while of being at this school compared to when they were at a previous local school (also private) at approx $5000 per year.

Another friend told me today that by the time you add up all the amounts that are asked from her for the various activities at the local primary school -she may as well send the kids to private school!

We haven't decided yet - our son is only 4 and goes to preschool (luckily)!

Alan Collett

The people most affected by any reduction in the funding of independent schools are those who can only just make ends meet after paying the school fees.

The "rich" (whatever that means - presumably those who send their children to fee paying schools and can afford holidays) will still be able to afford to send their children to the same independent school. It's the people at the margin who would bear the brunt of such a policy.

Moreover my understanding is that if people decide to move their children from an independent school into a Government school it will cost the taxpayer more than if the child stayed where he or she was being educated. Where's the logic in that ...??

Best regards.