moneypenny20

I don't believe it's a case of not giving a toss. I believe it is more of a case of this is too huge for me to deal with. Also the majority of people who migrate, will go to areas where there are very few aborigines and so don't see the problem.

I know I have only seen one boy and his father and that's because he goes to the same swimming lessons as my girls. They are - sorry, no, they appear to be fully integrated into the western world. If you don't see the problem, and the media don't flog it, people will be ignorant of the problem.

phoenixinoz

Yes, I saw that case on the news thribble and you've just reminded me of it.
What a very, very sad case that was too.

Having said this, I've seen it where Australians dare not do or say anything to offend the Aborigines even when the Aborigines were acting drunk and disorderly and extremely rude.

It's almost like Australia is standing on egg shells.....yet the only ones who are suffering are the innocent

phoenixinoz

I can see where you're coming from Ransi, but what does humane society do?

Does society ignore it and let the Aboriginal communities do their own thing or do we intervene and expect the communities to integrate?

Springbok

I am myself from South Africa originally, I have seen and know the problems that they are experiencing over there between differing tribes and of course whites but I am truly astounded with the off the cuff discussion about the Aborigines and their traditions. Yes they have not been inter-grated into society as they should have been and maybe they don't want to be but for God's sake a line has to be drawn somewhere to stop that sort of thing. Those children have no way of defending themselves. Religion plays no part in it. These men know they are doing wrong. To suggest they don't means they are not human or cannot think for themselves. Australia is a first world country, it shames me to think that the people that run it think there is nothing that can be done. If that is the case then we are all in trouble. The problem has to be addressed not just left . Examples have to be made.

Go on and shoot me down now.

phoenixinoz

Grayling, I'm not saying Aus is any less racist than anywhere else in the world but *most* of Australian society is not racist.

As for not giving a toss about the aborigines. From what I've seen / heard so far, to be fair, the Aussies are great believers in *a fair go*...and so long as people muck in then they do seem to gain respect here. However, the fact that aboriginies in the main do not want to integrate and are not bothered about integrating into the Australian society, then how can the two cultures integrate?

Should Australia / Australians take full responsibility for this and does this mean Australians don't care? My ersonal experience is that the Aussies I have come across are as upset and dissapointed as we all are, but are at a loss as what to do.

It's almost like when a parent of a wayward child blames themself for having let their kid down. They know they've done their best, but the kid still hates them and rebels at all cost

geordie mandy

I want to thank you for starting this thread, as a potential migrant to oz in my naivety i thought aboriginals were integrated into Australian society.I did not realise that there were area's that only aboriginals lived.

Or is it a case of only a minority live in their own area's and the majority are integrated?

The newspaper article has truly shocked me, i know things like that occasionally happen in the UK and of course become media stories.
Are their no aboriginal police that could 'police' their own. Not wishing to be appear racist as i am not but in the Uk different ethnic minorities are actively encouraged to join the police so that those ethnics can have some one in authority that understands customs and beliefs

Mandy

phoenixinoz

That's a good point. From my very limited experience and understanding I gather the aboriginals are in the main a peaceful and simple society. Perhaps the fact they just want to be left alone [rather than fight back] means they are an *easy target* to just leave alone? Taking a pasive stance is perhaps not the answer though becuase it just means they stand still and never move on in their thinking?

Agree. But how does Australia do this without seeming like they are taking away the aboriginal way of life, the very fabric of their culture

Yes, food for thought there. But hasn't every culture had to change otherwise we would still be living as our ancestors in the previous centuries? As for crime, can we expect the aboriginal communities to have their own justice systems within the same country? Why would it be unreasonable to expect the aboriginal communities to have the same law as the rest of Australia? Of course I see the alternative,and the effects, but what choice is there? Maybe the answer is not the one to suit everyone, but surely someone has to chose the lesser of two evils...

Agree m8. Some very good points you made here

phoenixinoz

Hi Mandy

Some great points there. In terms of integration, to be honest it doesn't seem to happen as far as I can see.

I work for a very large organisation which is the least racial company I know, yet there are NO Aborigines who work where I do [there about 500 people]. The company has asked it's workers if they know any indigenous people and if they could put their names forward for work, but the reality is Aborigines seem to keep themselves to themselves and so there is very little interaction. On the other hand, there are lots of islanders who work where I do and they seem to feel comfortable integrating and they are treated just like anyone else so there is definitely no racism.

Regarding your point re where Aborigines live. That's a really valid point cos when I came to live here I expected to see more aborigines than I have. It was only when I lived here that I realised that again, Aborigines do not seem to live in urbanised areas and tend to stay within their own communities.

As for aboriginal police. Well this is in effect what has happened so far Mandy except it has been the *elders* who have taken on responsibility. The difficulty though has been there seems to be no real law and order, and lots of embarrassing cover ups. I suppose if we left all cultures to do the same then the same problem would exist...

It's a tough nut to crack this one isn't it

geordie mandy

It certainly is Phoenixinoz, it has certainly opened my eyes to the situation, i hope a solution can be found in the not too distant future as what is currently happening is obviuosly not working.
Does any one know if there are aboriginal representives in local govenment and in parliment as there can only be fundemental changes started if there are representives to help in that process.
No one should be allowed to be lawless in any society no matter who they are.
Mandy

geordie mandy

I agree with you this lawlessness is disgusting and certainly does need to be addressed
Mandy

Ransi

Drive them into the ozone layer in the hope they all burn..

Thing is they are untouchable...Aus gov's fault for licking their arses too many times,so now they dont know when to stop or simply couldnt give a shit,knowing that most non abos are willing to walk on egg shells...so unless they get treated as equal citizens,which wont happen,its a vicious circle.

iPom

I understood 'Abo' to be a derogatory term that wasn't really approved of, but perhaps I'm wrong. My FIL here is a redneck but even he's stopped saying it. I would like to think we could bother to write out the whole of the word given the amount people are saying, it shouldn't cause too much RSI, should it?

phoenixinoz

I hope they find a solution too Mandy. I guess it's gonna take some hard decisions to make it work

There are some Aborigines in government, although how many I'm not sure and I'm not sure if they are proportionate to the population either

On that note, I think I read somewhere that the aborigine population is something like <5% of the population I think? If this is correct, it's not a lot is it?

Bix

This is very much at the core of where it's failing.

Nearly every habitated land the world over has been screwed by some other nation or tribe at some point in it's history. At what point does man forget the past ? Not in the sense of not remembering but in the sense of moving on.

WW2 was horrific but both Germany and Japan have come through it and moved with society.

I don't believe the Aborigine thing is the one black mark against this nation.
Get over it and move on.

The world has moved on so the Aborigine must do the same. Conform or join the dinosaurs. Where are the pygmies of the Amazon ? The headhunters of Borneo ? Like it or not they are being or have been forced to conform. That's what civilization is.

Again I say like it or not that's how the world races have evolved and what "we" have created and are about. Why do we as the U.N. not tolerate the many horrors in the world and try to do something about it ? Uganda, Chile, Iraq etc. It's not always about oil but also humanitarian reasons. May be slow to act sometimes but eventually action is taken.

So what's the difference here ? The buggers should be strung up.

Oh, and we don't call them Aborigine any more. It's now Traditional Owners. Poppycock. It's time the eggshells were broken and Australia treated them like they were Australian.

FNQ has probably the largest population and you can see the current attempts are failing miserably. Pick up a newspaper and a very common quote from the courts is "the young offender was of Aboriginal descent". Nine out of ten crimes by young people here appear to be. Is that a system that is working for the Aboriginal and society ? Of course not.

Nothing will be achieved until the governments here stop throwing money at them which in a lot of cases end up in the bottle shop coffers. They don't have to earn a living so why should they give a shit about anything ? And they don't. As in so many cases the only answer is education.

Excuse some of my generalisations but I think you get the picture.

Ransi

No one I know calls them aboriginals...

Must be an Aus thing,words get shortened.