Nasty Bite!!!!!!
 

Thought you would all like to see what happen when a recluse spider bites you (by the way dunno where it comes from as some kind person e-mailed it to me)

Hope your not all eating your dinner while reading this YUK!!!!!!!!!

Graham:D

:scared: :scared: where's the bucket!! :scared: :scared:

Yeeeuck:scared:
I shall be avoiding those at all costs!!!!:scared:


Debs

ok, what is it ? and are there any within 200 miles of brisbane ?

I simply MUST know this lol.

Paul

lol

Recluse or fiddleback spiders; Genus Loxosceles.

Recluse spiders are widespread throughout the world, but are not native to Australia. However, a few specimens were accidentally introduced here in the early part of the 20th century and were again reported from Adelaide and Sydney in the 1970's. We do not know how common or how widely distributed they are in Australia.

Particularly in North and South America, recluse spiders are the major cause of necrotic arachnidism. Bites by these spiders can cause two medically important conditions; loxoscelism and viscerocutaneous loxoscelism.

Loxoscelism is a potentially severe disease caused by the bite of the recluse spider. The principle effect is local skin damage, caused by direct effects of venom components. In a typical case, the victim is often unaware of being bitten. Many bites occur in bed at night, while the victim is asleep. They then develop an area of red skin which becomes uncomfortable. It may start to blister and discolour, often to a blue-black colour. This discoloured area is skin which is dying. The severity and extent of skin damage may progress over several days to a week or more. In severe cases, large areas of skin may be involved and there may be "skip lessions"; areas of affected skin distant from the bite site, such as elsewhere on the bitten limb. Often, during the first 24-48 hours, the patient feels generally unwell and may have a fever, nausea, headache or joint pains. This may all seem a bit like a severe cold or a mild flu. By the end of the first week there may be extensive areas of severe skin damage, but in most cases, the damage is far more localised, with just a local, painful skin ulcer. Healing is very slow and characterised by apparent healing of affected skin, followed by further breakdown.

Viscero-cutaneous Loxoscelism is similar to Loxoscelism, but far more severe, because in addition to the skin damage and general flu-like symptoms, there are severe, sometimes fatal effects on vital organs. Blood cells are destroyed, blood clotting occurs incorrectly, resulting in a bleeding tendency, organs such as the kidneys, liver, heart and lungs are damaged and a complex series of organ failures may occur. This form of loxoscelism used to have a 30% death rate, though survival is more likely with modern intensive care medicine.

In North America there is no antivenom to treat loxoscelism. Many treatments have been tried, but most have been ineffective. Even today, there is argument amongst American doctors about how best to treat this disease. Early surgery to clean up the damaged skin has proven a problem, often making the damaged area bigger. As a result, surgical treatment is best delayed for at least 4-5 weeks after the bite. Skin grafting of ulcerated areas is often best delayed much longer. Steroids have not proven helpful. Antibiotics only help if there is a significant secondary infection. Very toxiv drugs such as Dapsone were tried for a while; they only work if given early and can have nasty side effects, so they are not being used commonly anymore. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBO), given by placing the patient in a diving chamber (as used for decompression disease in divers) has found some favour, but is not accepted by all doctors. Scientific trials of hyperbaric oxygen therapy for loxoscelism have given conflicting results. Nevertheless, in the absence of any better treatment, HBO does seem to be effective for at least some patients; it both reduces pain and speeds healing of damaged skin. It does not work in all patients, is expensive and there are some risks associated.

In South America, specifically in Brazil, loxoscelism can be treated with specific antivenom. The effectiveness of antivenom treatment is uncertain, however. The Brazilian antivenom is only available in Brazil.

http://www.wch.sa.gov.au/paedm/clint...htm#loxosceles

http://www.wch.sa.gov.au/paedm/clint...tml#Definition

Ok, not lol, after reading all that (well, scanning it!) I don't think they're really in Oz though, phewwwww!

Re: Nasty Bite!!!!!!
 

That kind person wasn't your mother-in-law perchance?
:rolleyes:

Spider cleared of causing flesh-eating ulcer
Danny Kingsley
ABC Science Online
Tuesday, 19 August 2003

The white-tail spider, whose bite has been blamed for cases of flesh-eating ulcers for decades, has been declared innocent following methodical Australian research.
......

The real culprits
Two types of spider were originally suggested as the culprits for necrotising anachronism - the wolf spider and the white-tail spider. Like the white tail, the wolf spider is also innocent, "The wolf spider [accusation] was based on previous reports from other parts of the world, particularly in Brazil where it was felt that wolf spider bites caused skin damage," said White.The real villain - the brown recluse spider, Loxoceles reclusa, is from the family of spiders known to cause necrosis (NASA)
Research in Brazil that looked at the wolf spider found that the creatures were not responsible, explained White. "The culprit turned out to be bites by recluse or fiddleback spiders - they are the only group of spiders that have been well documented as having a venom that can cause skin damage," he said.
Recluse and fiddleback spiders are not native to Australia, although some have been introduced. "We have no idea how common they are," he said. Because of their reclusive nature, it is hard to gauge how many there are here, although there have been definite recluse spider bites recorded in Adelaide.
In most cases of bites in Australia, the victim does not see what had bitten them. "This has been a major stumbling block in developing a scientific understanding of the subject, because we don't really know what the cause is," he said.
The epidemiology of necrotism has never been studied, and it is uncertain if the cause is a bite. White argues that some of the cases are actually caused by infection, and there is a serious risk of misdiagnosis of bite by the white-tail spider.
"It's actually doing the community quite a disservice by continuing that because possibly treatable conditions, sometimes serious conditions are overlooked," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/e...ish_926733.htm

simone,

they are nasty little sods and i don't think they are in oz would have been suffice.;)

now i sit here trembling like a chunky jelly.

Paul ( scanning the walls, the floor, the ceiling, desk, cupboards etc etc )

:eek: :scared:

I don't think they are in Brisbane, Perth or Darwin

:D

on a more serious note.

I have a slight problem when it comes to spiders.

Can anyone suggest ( other than " don't go " ) what precautions i could/ should take to ensure i never ( ever ) see one.

I fully intend to research different types before we ( if ever ) depart but at the moment, viewing the different types of spiders and the harm they can cause does not rank very high on my " to do " list as i believe this may have a negative impact on my desire to go.

Thanks, Paul

Hello Paul,
The most effective way of dealing with this type of fear is gradual exposure!!
Avoidance is a risky strategy.

Read this thread:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...hreadid=190873
I hope it helps.....
Take special notice of the posts by:
Jirrupin (bottom page 1)
Dotty (top half page 2)
Dagboy, bottom page 2

I remember the first time I went to Australia I was completely paranoid as I have a real fear of spiders. A few days after I got there I went to get my mail from the little post box at the end of the drive and as I lifted my mail out my hand brushed against something hairy. It was a huntsman. And it was HUGE!!!! I thought I was going to pass out. I have been much more tolerant of spiders since then, on a positive note :)

Didnt realise such a small thing could be sooo intersting!!!!!

BTW Simone where do you find your facts out so quickly:D


Kath

:)

Hate to say this folks but a few years ago I nursed someone who had a similar wound as the result of an ant bite. He ended up losing his hand so don't think that all the nasties are confined to Oz.

Claire

Google!
 

Google, always google!!
Brilliant!:D

Oh, and by the way. I you look in Google for 'discover australia Simone' the first site you get is ours (I'm very proud!)
It's about our trip to Oz in 2000, but it's all in dutch, so no use to you lot!!
Actually... on photo number 10, 'Het YH in Mundaring Weir' you can see the bench on the verandah where we saw our only redback!! The Japanese people staying there also found it in between the seat!

Jesus Christ, that's some bite :scared: :scared: :scared:

Why the hell did this guy not get any treatment? or did he?

My fear of spiders has just increased ten fold :(

Read all the info I put up, and if you're not going to Adelaide or Sydney you'll be fine ;)

And I don't think there is any anti venom(if I read the article correctly, which would be surprising as I just skimmed it)

I was bitten by a snake once, spent one week in Hospital because of it.

But not had any problem since coming to OZ .

The snake bite was in Cornwall. Lucky me, to get bitten by the UK's only poisonous snake at the time...

To keep the spiders at bay, I have an electronic gadget that seems to keep a room completely free from them.

To keep the spiders at bay, I have an electronic gadget that seems to keep a room completely free from them.

ABC,

it has to be a garden strimmer next to every entry point............?

Please, do tell.

Paul

Hi Paul

Its an ultrasonic pest control device made by ARLEC, model SC1202.

I never believed that these things worked, but decided to give it a try when we got to QLD, and it actually does seem to work.
It plugs into a power point, and I don't get any spiders in the room that its in.

They're not all that bad... especially the cute little cat spider... (courtesy of WWB)

Oh, how cute!
:D

Paul, seriously, there is no way you can ever ensure that you wont see a spider. There are spiders everywhere in Australia, but the thing to remember is that most of them are harmless.

Just remember always check your shoes if they have been left outside, always watch where you put your hands (redbacks like to hide under the rims of pots, under wood etc) & always wear gloves when you garden.

You cant avoid them all together, but you can learn to live with them. :)

I'd also say, that the more you read about them, the less worried you get. I used to be a lot more worried, until I read loads of threads etc. and found out that they really aren't that much of a threat. The necrotic one mentioned isn't an aussie native as it is. No-one has died from redback bite since the antivenom came out and funnel webs are now less of a problem (they're quite shy too), plus there are barrier sprays etc. It's worth delving into the threads previously on here, paying particular attention to the area you're going to.
Larissa
You've got more chance of being hit by a bus!
:scared:

Very true Larissa, I think its more a question of whether you are scared of being bitten by something deadly or just fear of spiders (of any sort!). If its the fear of dying thing, the chances are so slim that they are almost non-existant, if its arachnophobia, you just have to learn to live with it unfortunately. Read as many of the threads as possible & get spider-aware :).

Some thoughts on spiders.

White tail spiders have been suggested as a the culprit for the nasty bite in the original post. It's thought, and I emphasise thought, that less than 1% of people bitten by a white tail will develop the nasty necrotising thing. Nobody is certain about any of this because so many people are bitten by the damn things and so few report anything as a consequence. Am I talking out my bum? No, I have a mate who studies these buggers.

I don't mean to alarm anyone, but these spiders are common in the southern states and the evil creatures love linen, so if you know they are around (they breed in little hot spots) it's best to check any clothing as you bring the washing in. Remember though: chances of being bitten: minimal. Chances of developing reaction: too low to be measured statistically.

It's a nice luxury, as an Aussie, to go into the garden shed here in the UK and just brush spiders away knowing they are harmless, I can tell you.

when i see a spider, it has to die.
The wife and kids will collect it in a glass and take it outside ( unless i get my hands on it first ).

When i see one ( over about an inch and a half in diameter ) i quite simply have to kill it.if it runs under the sofa or behind a unit i simply have to leave the room.I become nervous and twitchy, constantly scanning the floor / walls. If ,as i'm about to hit it with the newspaper it sets off running i jump a bloody mile lol.

I know it all sounds stupid, and i know i look daft but to be honest, i really do hate the little b******s.

have often thought about doing one of these fear relief things but cannot pluck up the bottle to go.

Will definately research more into the matter before we depart.

In fact, i'm going to have a quick search through these pages and visit a couple of websites right now ! lol

Special thanks to whomever discovered the delightful properties of the grape and the inventor of the glass bottle.

Paul.

well, after following " jayr " 's link, i was confronted with " common spiders of south eastern queensland ".

COMMON !!!!!!!

39 of 'em !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BLOODY COMMON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

have decided that it may be wise to just check up on the dangerous ones.

doing that now before dinner arrives ( chicken chow mein ) and the film starts ( at 10 )

Paul

hmmmmm, is this a good idea ?

AH HA !

success.

4 of 'em. ( so many :( lol )

reds,white tailed,mouse and funnel..................why no hunts ?

INCLUDING TREATMENT !!!!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO lol

funnels...................OK, mainly around sydney, happy days :)

reds, hundreds of bites each year, 30% require anti-venon, generally just females that bite. ( nothing new there then ;) )

mouse................hmmmm, not pleasant, small, ugly as sin,not too keen on heavily populated areas ( always a good sign then).

white tail.................:scared: , sod that ! , they're history, we shall sleep in shifts, i have devised a rota, i sleep at night and ann-marie sleeps during the day, sounds good.Requires vacuum cleaner for each room and duct tape for all air vents lol.

film's starting, dinner has arrived ( tho not too hungry anymore) shall view more later ( when the bottle's finished ;) )

Paul

ROFLAMO!!!!

One very small thing to keep in mind (pun intended) when you comment about spiders being over an inch & a half diametre & wanting to kill them, it might be a good thing for you to know that most redbacks are usually no bigger than the size of a ladies little fingernail. The only good thing is that you will get a bit more dancing practice in if you now feel the need to kill anything over the size of a pea. ;)

hmmmm, interesting point mrs D.

now the bottle has been drunk by the wine fairies ( you know the one's, one minute you have a full glass, the next it's empty and you're demanding the culprit comes clean ) i have a slightly braver outlook.

if they stay away from me ( couple of hundred yards lol ) then i will do my utmost not to kill them.

Let's be honest here, i'm bad enough when it comes to harmless spiders, if i had to face a dangerous one i'd just collapse on the spot.

I thought of watching one of those wildlife programs on sky but then thought, when was the last time you heard the narrator saying " lovely little fellow here, no harm at all " ?
No, all they say is " ooooooooh you don't want to get too close to this one " or " this little rascal has enough poison in one bite to fell a heard of buffalo's " lol

First priority upon arrival, start a petition.
Second ( if the first fails ) attend a spider awareness course.
Knowing my luck ( if i was in a marching band i would get the grand piano ) i would find myself cured of this rather sad and pathetic phobia and then get hit by that bloody bus everyone keeps mentioning. :D

Paul.
Doomed.

Sorry if i'm harping on, it's been a really bad week or two and tonight was good to get drunk and have some fun.

i've just noticed, even daffy looks pissed :D

goodnight everyone, i must now go to bed and nurture a hangover for tomorrow.

Paul

lol
:D :D That is so how I feel!! My other worry is that the hunstman spider is so BBBIIIIIGGGGG it will bung the hose up on the vacuum!

To all of you lot who don't have fear of the little critters.....why not?!!!
Only joking....I'm going to get in touch with our local zoo at Dudley and see if they do a 'Get Rid Of Your 'Totally Irrational and Equally Bloody Stupid' Spider Phobia' course before we go.
Or does anyone know of anywhere else in the midlands that does a phobia curing course?
Yes I am serious!!!:scared: I think.

feeling a little tender this morning, so no shouting please........

Tracey, let me know how you get on. I spent ages last night reading up on 'em and there was very little about the treatment compared to what the venom actually does to you.

Then, when i thought it couldn't get much worse i saw...........
( it was a FAQ site lol )

Are there any scorpions in australia ?

followed by........

Yes, there are scorpions in australia.

So, in conclusion, we are leaving the squirrels,moles,hedgehogs etc for crocs,spiders,snakes and now scorpions................
Oh the joy lol

Going now, keyboard is waaaaaaaay too noisy.

Paul

Also tracey, i read about the huntsman, it cannot jump........if it gets mad ( lol ) it rears up on its rear and then charges towards you ( after reading that i really can't explain the images that flooded my dizzy head lol )

Not trying to be all " anti-spiders " here, i know they are important to nature and not ALL are nasty, in fact, very few are actually nasty and there have been no deaths reported from red back or funnelwebs since 81 ( i think ) due to anti-venom being readily available.
Just portraying my own fears and feelings.

Dont know of any courses but any psychologist/psychotherapist would undertake a desensitisation programme. Best done individually which may be why they dont do courses.
Good luck

Paul

I dunno if this is going to help or not, but let's have a go...

I had an encounter with a spider when I was 11 - we were visiting relatives in South Australia, and during the night I woke up with a feeling of a weight on my chest. I reached out my arm, switched on the bedside light, and looked down, to find a fruit spider on my chest, looking at me with about 200 of its eyes.... Okay, so about 8 eyes... The reason I felt this weight is that the spider was about the size of your standard dinner plate.

Needless to say, I screamed, the bedclothes and spider went one way, I went the other, woke the whole bloody household, my uncle came running in with a polo mallet in hand (don't ask...) saw the spider crawling up the wall, and took a swing. I swear to this day that the polo mallet bounced off this critter!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we had to wait until the spider crawled onto the window blind, which was one of those rollup types. Once it did that, someone else (not me!) flicked the blind, which rolled up with the spider inside. Grasping both ends firmly, the whole kit and caboodle was taken outside, and rather rapidly dumped.

Needless to say, this left me with a slight arachnaphobia problem...:D

Anyway, this phobia lasted for many years, until I found that my wife likes spiders, and insists on taking them outside and letting them go. So, I had to take my irrational fear of these tiny little creatures, who eat flies which I hate with a passion, and tell myself that they're really my friends. I'm now at the stage where I can look at a spider quite dispassionately, and decide whether or not it needs to be destroyed. (If we decide it's to go out, Mrs DUP does the honours!!)

The only spider we haven't been able to let go since we've been here was a mouse spider, about 4" across (100mm) which came inside during a downpour, to shelter from the rain. As they're on the 'do not touch' list, it had to go. Mrs DUP, to her credit, was prepared to catch it with a box, and take it outside, but at the time she was just out of the shower, and I refused to let her give the neighbours such a treat!!:D

Anyway, believe it or not, familiarity breeds contempt, and you will get used to having them around, even if it presently feels that you'd run a mile if you spotted one. Next time you see one,just try watching it, without doing anything. They're really quite interesting, are FAR more frightened of us than we are of them, and do a sterling job of keeping the bugs at bay.

Like most of my questions, this is probably really stupid....but the Bloke is asleep and I know what response I'd get if I woke him up to ask him!
I read somewhere on here that spiders eat cockroaches? Is that true? I mean, they are hideous litte gits with tough bodies, so i can't see how spiders could eat them, but if they do then I shall take back everything nasty I've ever said about spiders :rolleyes:

Paul, don't fret mate, have another vat of wine, and remember that spiders are lovely creatures, its the b****y cockies you need to look out for.

First I must just point out that there are scorpions in England (little ones - about 3 mm long I think).

Second - whilst I do not really dislike spiders I can understand your fear - I cannot stand ants - they make the hairs on my neck stand up - ever since I saw "Them". As for the spiders - come round and see us when you get here and you can see our back verandah spider that keeps the mossies and flies at bay - lovely little fellow - about 2" across with yellow legs.
Cheers,

:beer:
DagBoy

DUP, thank you for that...................NIGHTMARE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

I agree that it is something i will have to deal with ( ideally without the help of wooden / electrical help ) and thank you for your comments and offers.They are very much appreciated and all are read and taken on-board for future experiences.

One things for sure, i'm either going to adapt to my new found friends ( eight legged freaks ) or i shall be heard screaming from many a mile away whilst receiving therapy.

These anti-venoms, do you have to go out to get them ( ie: doctor's ) or can you keep a supply in the fridge ?

Thanks again,

Paul