Alex Hall

Background:

I have my PR visa (136), and was primarily going to Sandown to dig up info on Pension transfers. I am planning to move to Sydney sometime between July/Sept 05. I also work in IT/Financial Services so know a reasonable amount about the UK Pensions/Investments market, and also have read a reasonable amount about the Oz Superannuations, so would class myself as reasonably knowledgable.

I currently have 3 UK pensions and will be transferring two of them into the third one (Stakeholder pension with Standard Life, no transfer fee (who are also quick at processing things)). One of my pensions is with Norwich Union (no transfer fee, but they are VERY slow at processing things) and the final pension is a (small) final salary with BT that I will also be transferring (normally you shouldn't transfer final salary, but I have my reasons).

I got to Sandown at 9am, so was near the front of the queue, and sat in the glorious sunshine with the Australian News Emigration supplement, going through the floor plan and circling the boothes I wanted to visit on the floorplan. Also spoke to another couple in the queue who were just starting the visa process, so mentioned britishexpats.com (they hadn't seen it). (also passed on the details to some other potential migrants and also some companies in the boothes - so hopefully we should get some new members joining!). Was actually quite surprised the number of potential migrants/companies who had not heard of britishexpats.com. If I was around next year and went, I think I would print out small strips of paper with the url on and give it to everyone.

Anyway, I digress.. at 10am the doors opened and I took a quick walk to the 3rd floor (having decided to start at the top and work down)

Experience

Saw the following Pension Transfer "experts" (approx fees included based on the above scenario [apologies if any mistakes!] i.e. transfer of 1 pension to Oz with pension fund size ~£45k):

(stand 301) - Prism Xpats - £100-250 for the initial consultation. £275 + 5% of pension fund for the transfer.
(stand 313) - Destini Global (Godfrey Pembrooke) - £395 for the initial consultation/report + 5% of pension fund for the transfer.
(stand 320) - Montfort International - would not give any fee information (see below for more info)
(stand 223) - Australian Financial Services - about to establish UK office, fees not confirmed yet approx - £300-500 for the initial consultation/report plus a fixed fee of $5500 (AUS DOLLARS!) for the transfer.
(stand 225) - Gateway Financial Partners - main person who dealt with transfers not there so they were not sure of the fees - ~$350ish (AUS DOLLARS!) for the initial consultation/report plus 1.1% of fund commission plus additional fees in Oz.
(stand 113) - Pension Transfers Direct - $220 (AUS DOLLARS!) plus 2.5%-5% of pension fund for the transfer.


In general, I found all of the above companies (with one exception) to be very open about fees, the steps involved, and had quite detailed discussions about the changes to the UK Pension market due for next year, and the changes to the Oz Pension market due this July. Also discussed Self Managed Supers and "Wraps".

Its worth stating that the ~5% fee does include quite a fee things:
- The above companies commission
- A meeting with a tax/financial adviser in Oz to decide which super is best for you and tax planning
- The set-up charge for the selected super (it is not uncommon for this to be 2-4% in the UK for buying into a fund, so the 5% overall does not sound quite so bad now!)

Was also quite nice to see one of them having a fixed fee rather than a percentage. Quite useful for those of you with larger funds.

[edit - just to say then that apart from the fixed fee one instead of the %age, most of the charges for the transfers are about the same and the key difference is the cost of the initial consultation/report (MOntfort excepted!)]

I asked each of them about whether it was possible (and how difficult) to transfer a pension oneself without using one of them, and also about I was considering a self-managed super in Oz and what was their view. I also spoke about maximising contributions to the UK pension before leaving the UK as this can be very beneficial tax wise for both UK and Oz, although obviously ties up the money until you retire.

The responses I generally received on whether one could transfer a pension on your own was .. "no, and if you did it could take up to 2 years to transfer it" (which from a tax perspective is far from desirable). The only exception was Pension Transfers Direct, who said, if I was transferring from my UK pension to a self-managed super then it could be done myself, it wasn't that difficult (and Standard Life were quite good as a uk pension provider for doing transfers). We had a long chat, very helpful person, can highly recommend him to chat to.

So will I try and transfer myself? Is tempting, will think about it over the next couple of months and have some more detailed discussions with some of the above companies.

So, as for Montfort, well most of you will be aware that their reputation on this forum is not the best and a family member had previously met with them, they had been reasonably happy with the person they had been chatting to, until Gerraint then walked in and continued the "meeting" and was somewhat rude, pushy and impolite.. so Montfort lost the business..

I was "lucky" enough to meet Gerraint himself, and being the 3rd of the pension companies I was talking to had my "story/questions" pretty well settled. Gerraint ignored my questions, started off about the fact that he was the first person ever to transfer a pension from UK to Oz and had pretty much written the book on how to do it (could be true, but please answer my questions and give me the sales pitch afterwards!).

Then he went on about the fact that they would help me "unlearn" everything I knew about UK financial services [we haven't got onto the oz stuff yet] (err, ok!, but I work in FS and am quite knowledgable thanks, please stop being so condescending and answer my questions!) and then he would have to reteach me about UK financial services (thanks, but I am more than happy with what I know, why not just add to it and not brainwash me, and please can you answer my questions) and then he would have to teach me about Oz financial services (hmm, yes please, but I am getting the feeling you will not be teaching me, just trying to confuse me by talking in riddles rather than proper FS talk, and please answer my questions)

The end result was, they charge by the hour (not sure that is entirely in my best interest, and got the feeling it would not be value for money.) He never answered my questions, and also all the time we were talking he came across as condescending, somewhat arrogrant and his eyes kept flittering (not in an attempt to flirt with me I am sure!!!!) in a way that made me walk away with the feeling he is not someone I trust.

Anyway, it only took me less than 2 hours to go round the above companies, I then went round the removal companies (45 mins) and then spent another 2 hours just having idle chatter to various Aussie people on the boothes about Sydney, Manly etc. Proved to be very helpful, have made some good contacts and most of the people were very friendly and had interesting stories.

So was the show worth going to... Very much, even more so if you are just beginning the visa experience.

Hope this report is of some help (KARMA ME IF IT IS!!!!!)
:-)
Alex

flumper

Hi Alex,

Really interesting. We are in a very similar position to you. We're off to Oz in 6 weeks and visited our IFA last week. I have several 'small' pensions inc. Standard Life and considered consolidating all into SL as with profits. Just waiting for them to demutualise although this is at least April next year. My husband has a pension (similar value to yourself) with Scottish Widows. We just don't know whether to transfer or not. Will speak to Pensions Transfer Direct as seemed most helpful and reasonable.

Don't really know enough about pensions and FS but had considered 'maximising contributions'.

Do you know if Pensions Transfer Direct have a website?

Cheers

NedKelly

I am in the process of transferring the pension myself with a little help from my accountant and it will cost about $1000 to do the transfer including setting up the Self-Managed Super.

If you want to PM me I will tell you what I think of some of the companies you have listed in your message. I wouldn't post the comments up here as they would be offensive but I think you are on the right track.

Alex Hall

Just to add a couple more points.

It is entirely possible that MI do know their stuff, there was another MI booth on the second floor that I should have gone to and spoken to someone else to see if I could get any more answers. Would be curious if anyone else at the show spoke to MI (either to Gerraint or someone else) and what their thoughts were.

Gerraint probably does know his pension transfer info, his delivery just did not give me the confidence I wanted (which the other pension transfer companies did) that he had my best interest in mind and would talk/explain to me clearly and answer my questions.

Also one final point. I didn't ask whether any of the previously mentioned companies were "tied" to a single superannuation provider in Oz. i.e. are they only allowed to sell Superannuations from Provider xxx instead of the whole of the market. It may not be a problem if they are, however it could also mean you are not getting the best Super to meet your needs and they won't necessarily say that... So is always worth asking to make sure.

hth

Alex

Alex Hall

www.pentran.com.au

:-)

Alex

Chris Mitchell

Hi Alex ,
Very useful post,we couldn't get to Sandown as hubby on nights. Think I have spoke to you before about this pensions lark. Do you know if its better to do this before you go? We are a little reluctant to incase we don't stay.

Tried to sedn you karma but I got to spread it round first so will catch you later.

Chris

Alex Hall

As far as I am aware you can't transfer your pension(s) until you are in Oz (and working?). Although I would advise you to get in touch with one (or more )of the Pension Transfer experts and discuss things with them, get their fees and then decide whether you wish to use them to progress things.

You don't have to transfer your pension (straight away, or at all), and if you are not sure you are going to stay then it might be a good idea not to???? The experts are the best ones to talk to as they will be able to explain about the tax implications of leaving your pension(s) in the UK.

I guess partly it comes down to your view on the migration, my view is that for me it is a 1 way trip (ok, it might not work out, but somehow or other I plan to make sure it does!).

good luck, and thanks for trying the karma!

Alex

Bix

No expert but believe you are correct.
You need to be a working resident with Tax File Number and a super fund.

Alex Hall

yep, that is what I have heard from the pension xfer people.

:-)

Alex

flumper

Thanks Alex for the web site address.

teach

Hi Alex,
We saw him coming towards us so made a mad dash for it. I have already had a very, long, pushy conversation with him on the telephone having foolishly left my details with them last year.
Hope you had a good day, we made a weekend of it by staying in travel lodge type place in Epsom and then going to Chessington World of Aventures today. Weather was fabulous yesterday and ok today.
Sarah

Alex Hall

I spent Saturday afternoon/evening sitting by the thames drinking beer with a friend, the weather was fantastic!

I made sure I didn't give my phone number to anyone, just my e-mail address which is much easier to ignore!

Shame I didn't get a chance to meet up with other expats afterwards.

Next stop Sydney!

:-)

Alex

markeh

Hiya Alex,
good post, lots of info, and only goes to rinforce my opinion of the people who advise you about your money.

I think NedKelly has the right idea, but each to their own.

Bye
Mark

kirsty&al

Hello,

The UK requires that you do at least 1 day of work in Oz before you can transfer your pension across. Fortunately some of the pension transfer companies (in Oz) will offer you 1 day of work to make this happen.

Regards
Alistair

JohnAndNetta

Hi Alistair

This sounds very interesting....we did speak to a UK pensions advisor several months ago stating that we probably wouldn't want to work when we first arrive in Oz, but we did want to transfer our pensions asap. He told us that to transfer our pensions we would have to be in gainful employment. He eluded to the fact that this wasn't going to be difficult but didn't elaborate, so we just assumed he meant we would have to get a temporary job for a short period of time then leave soon after. I didn't really like this idea, but the 1 day employment sounds rather more appealing. Have you actually done this yourselves yet? Any further info will be much appreciated.

Another potential problem for us relates to GMP portion of our pension which I believe we may have problems trying to transfer. If anyone out there is old enough to have a GMP component in a final salary scheme we would be interested to hear from you. We are in our mid-forties and have a couple of frozen pensions each. We have paid for some initial pensions advice but are very reluctant to pay a whopping 5% of our transfer value to a UK based advisor to simply 'assess the situation'.

We are therefore simply contemplating using an Oz based advisor, as this could potentially save us thousands of pounds. We are aware that an Oz advisor is not allowed to give advice in terms of whether we should or shouldn't be transfering our UK pensions in the first place, (i.e the initial assessment / analysis 'bit' that a UK based advisor performs), but we are fairly confident that our pensions are relatively straightforward. We are just a bit confused about the GMP bit.

(Also attempting to send Karma to Alex for a very informative and interesting post, but it might ask me to spread it around first!).

Netta