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Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

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Old Dec 17th 2017, 2:43 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I wonder where in Western Europe you arrived from? I came from there as well and it took some years to reach earning capacity obtained there.


It was cheaper though, so felt richer, ate out three or more times a week, rent was cheap those times. House prices were easily within range of a cash purchase.


All seems far off now. Houses being some of the least affordable and rent protection, unlike in Europe doesn't exist.


I'd say the politics are very relevant. Laissez faire economics being largely why we are in the state we are in.
We earned, instantly, more here than there.

I am not sure what kind of Europe you are referring to, as the Europe you seem to be pining for doesn't exist and you are going to be in for an extreme disappointment. Housing prices there are massively unaffordable if you want to live in a place everyone else wants to live. If you compare housing prices of desirable neighbourhoods of Sydney to an industrial suburb of Sunderland - sure the UK is going to look affordable. If you are comparing it to London?
Wagin, which you brought up in another thread, is also very affordable compared to Sydney.

As well about the laissez-faire economics. I'm not sure what you are expecting to find on the political scene in Europe. It won't be socialism.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 3:50 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by carcajou View Post
We earned, instantly, more here than there.

I am not sure what kind of Europe you are referring to, as the Europe you seem to be pining for doesn't exist and you are going to be in for an extreme disappointment. Housing prices there are massively unaffordable if you want to live in a place everyone else wants to live. If you compare housing prices of desirable neighbourhoods of Sydney to an industrial suburb of Sunderland - sure the UK is going to look affordable. If you are comparing it to London?
Wagin, which you brought up in another thread, is also very affordable compared to Sydney.

As well about the laissez-faire economics. I'm not sure what you are expecting to find on the political scene in Europe. It won't be socialism.
You were indeed fortunate. Many of the Europeans we knew in early days have returned. I can see why Australia may favour some Brit's, but Europeans would largely depend on what country and reason for leaving.
Often it wasn't economic but a 'change of direction', a warmer climate, along with a few things no longer applicable or too boring to mention.


I'm not at all sure to exactly you refer, in writing the sort of Europe I appear to be pinning to? We travel to Europe probably every two years, three at the outside, for both holiday and business reasons and it wouldn't take too much to set up there again if at all decided to sever Australian ties.
I do not find the UK 'affordable', at least in locations I would live. Sunderland would not be even close to that, in fact since losing interest in London, would struggle to find a UK location to settle, as much as I like Cornwall and parts of the Sussex Coast .....it would prove not particularly feasible or in other cases affordable.

UK suffered much the same housing hype and cheap loans meant a similar out come to Australia. Both rather unhealthy and prone to correction.


Are you saying Sydney is not over priced? I don't quite get your argument there. Sydney is by and large unaffordable for most of its population. AS desirable as it is, value in real estate it has not.


Socialism? Well depending on the country but western European countries have rent controls and greater rights over tenure. Something hardly radical, sometimes a nuisance to those of us that are property owners over there, but at least a sense of 'fairness, for those that do rent, making those city localities far more interesting and 'business friendly', by enabling a cross section of the community to reside, be they rich or average workers.


Workers still get decent pensions to live on in retirement as well. This may well change with time, but for the moment , the ones I know do well to very well. That includes free breaks/respite from caring for sick relatives and 'after treatment' when recovering from a spell in hospital.


Not sure if you call that socialism or just good practise? Obviously not all is top grade stuff, prices rise there as elsewhere. People complain as people do everywhere. But there is still something in having knowledge of basic security in the age still applies with adequate care .......
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 8:52 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Are you saying Sydney is not over priced? I don't quite get your argument there. Sydney is by and large unaffordable for most of its population. AS desirable as it is, value in real estate it has not.
You totally overlooked what carcajou said. "Housing prices there are massively unaffordable if you want to live in a place everyone else wants to live."

Therefore most people want to live in Sydney. That's why it has about a fifth of Australia's population. The next most popular is Melbourne.

So here's the clincher. How can property be unaffordable if most of the population are living in the most expensive places? You aren't making sense.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 11:09 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
You totally overlooked what carcajou said. "Housing prices there are massively unaffordable if you want to live in a place everyone else wants to live."

Therefore most people want to live in Sydney. That's why it has about a fifth of Australia's population. The next most popular is Melbourne.

So here's the clincher. How can property be unaffordable if most of the population are living in the most expensive places? You aren't making sense.
Here's the clincher, oh man. Ever been to London? Most migrants or short stayers stay in that city out of ....
choice
knowledge already of..
ethnic communities already in place...
More jobs regardless of pay rates,,,
easy to disappear if over stay visa...


Hence little to do with affordability. People will share multiple numbers in a house setting...
rent small apartments .....live to survive id necessary. How ever much Sydney living standards have declined they are still more desirable than the setting many an immigrant comes from...


Other than that many have settled in gentler times and seen their real estate soar in value.....


Others 'just get by' by careful spending ..


Others of course as in London are already rich and not entering as economic migrants....


Why go to cheaper cities like Adelaide or Perth or Hobart where a job may well prove difficult to obtain ..... among other considerations already mentioned....?
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 11:39 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

[QUOTE=the troubadour;12401009]Here's the clincher, oh man. Ever been to London? Most migrants or short stayers stay in that city out of ....
choice
knowledge already of..
ethnic communities already in place...
More jobs regardless of pay rates,,,
easy to disappear if over stay visa...


Hence little to do with affordability. People will share multiple numbers in a house setting...
rent small apartments .....

All of which is true in Sydney - particularly Western Sydney.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 2:34 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Short Answer, No.

I was born and raised Australian and love my country. But we have fallen on hard times as much as none of us like to admit. In very recent years with the downturn of Mining, and the sheer idiotic decisions make by those in power when the money was pouring in, we have lost our major revenue. With this came a record deficit and a compound effect on everything.
The Australian and State Governments are doing everything in their power to return us to deficit. So we have cuts to nearly every sector and of course, higher taxes.
The worst seems to be over now but without Mining or a new big industry soon, we a seriously doomed.
I hate to say this but if you go to any metropolitan area in my state at least, you will notice a larger homeless population than say 5 years ago. Offices in the CBD are 20% to 30% vacant now compared to 5 years ago.

We have been badly hit by the Mining downtown with very little attention given because we still want to be seen as a flourishing 1st world country but in all honesty we are not really flourishing at all.

But really, if you are skilled and qualified in a Trade or Doctor or something like that, Australia is a great place to live and work. If your going for entry level to medium jobs, you are going to struggle with lack of industry.
I sometimes wish I was never born here and could come as a tourist, I would probably have a much different view on our country's current situation. I love Australia but damn some people have really stuffed it up.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 9:41 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Here's the clincher, oh man. Ever been to London? Most migrants or short stayers stay in that city out of ....
choice
knowledge already of..
ethnic communities already in place...
More jobs regardless of pay rates,,,
easy to disappear if over stay visa...


Hence little to do with affordability. People will share multiple numbers in a house setting...
rent small apartments .....live to survive id necessary. How ever much Sydney living standards have declined they are still more desirable than the setting many an immigrant comes from...


Other than that many have settled in gentler times and seen their real estate soar in value.....


Others 'just get by' by careful spending ..


Others of course as in London are already rich and not entering as economic migrants....


Why go to cheaper cities like Adelaide or Perth or Hobart where a job may well prove difficult to obtain ..... among other considerations already mentioned....?
You seem to have the gripe that living standards is all about the size of the McMansion.

More fool you if that's your measuring stick. Personally I couldn't think of anything worse. Living in the oversized, poorly built, nightmare to maintain, urban cringe, type palace. It makes me shudder.

In addition its no good watching your McMansion that you bought in the 80's, struggling to maintain, soar in value, when everything else is priced the same. Zero zero net effect.

If your measuring stick is property, then that's your measuring stick. For most others, living standards means a different thing.

'Creative class' converges on Sydney and Melbourne as part of growing global trend
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
You seem to have the gripe that living standards is all about the size of the McMansion.

More fool you if that's your measuring stick. Personally I couldn't think of anything worse. Living in the oversized, poorly built, nightmare to maintain, urban cringe, type palace. It makes me shudder.

In addition its no good watching your McMansion that you bought in the 80's, struggling to maintain, soar in value, when everything else is priced the same. Zero zero net effect.

If your measuring stick is property, then that's your measuring stick. For most others, living standards means a different thing.

'Creative class' converges on Sydney and Melbourne as part of growing global trend
The altar of worship in the Australian context is housing in case you haven't noticed. Boring as it is, and I mean real boring those are the facts.


Housing is the measuring stick of the average suburbanites feeling of wealth (not to say 'conversation') All a say very boring, but it does explain the huge numbers of retirees and near retirees doing continuous cruises I suppose.


I seen the article with regards to creative class. If anything cities that out price themselves through high rents, high house prices do not attractive a 'creative class' as such unless well established. Artists, budding writers and poets and actors, musicians and dreamers and other potentially creative types will be barred by cost.


Bankers and high earning individuals do not necessary, in contrast quite the opposite, make more interesting cities. Rather exclusive due to high cost a loss of diversity and street life as neighbour hoods become gentrified.


History has shown as much. Paris, London have been examples of the above process. Sydney has well earned joining those ranks. Melbourne not far behind, drowning in its owned perceived sense of 'coolness'.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 10:45 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

[QUOTE=carcajou;12401022]
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Here's the clincher, oh man. Ever been to London? Most migrants or short stayers stay in that city out of ....
choice
knowledge already of..
ethnic communities already in place...
More jobs regardless of pay rates,,,
easy to disappear if over stay visa...


Hence little to do with affordability. People will share multiple numbers in a house setting...
rent small apartments .....

All of which is true in Sydney - particularly Western Sydney.
It has to do with affordability in the sense most people do not want to remain in shared accommodation all their lives.


Take London as a yardstick. Many incomers are more than content to live in multiple occupied dwellings up until through their twenties, but rather withdraw from the process in the their thirties if not before.


In other words it is seldom durable nor desirable long term. I do not see Sydney or other over inflated Australian cities as being any different.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 10:55 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
The altar of worship in the Australian context is housing in case you haven't noticed. Boring as it is, and I mean real boring those are the facts.


Housing is the measuring stick of the average suburbanites feeling of wealth (not to say 'conversation') All a say very boring, but it does explain the huge numbers of retirees and near retirees doing continuous cruises I suppose.


I seen the article with regards to creative class. If anything cities that out price themselves through high rents, high house prices do not attractive a 'creative class' as such unless well established. Artists, budding writers and poets and actors, musicians and dreamers and other potentially creative types will be barred by cost.


Bankers and high earning individuals do not necessary, in contrast quite the opposite, make more interesting cities. Rather exclusive due to high cost a loss of diversity and street life as neighbour hoods become gentrified.


History has shown as much. Paris, London have been examples of the above process. Sydney has well earned joining those ranks. Melbourne not far behind, drowning in its owned perceived sense of 'coolness'.
Oh dear you really are living in the Perth bubble.

Yes boring, but that's Perth and its measuring stick. Time for you to branch out a little.

You also really need to get up to speed on what the creative class is today. Like days gone by, artists, budding writers and poets and actors, musicians and dreamers will be there, with their first and second other jobs while they continue to dream. Today's creative class is all about innovation with the potential to earn and contribute to society in many ways.

You really are resentful towards change.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 11:10 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by DrDundee View Post
Short Answer, No.

I was born and raised Australian and love my country. But we have fallen on hard times as much as none of us like to admit. In very recent years with the downturn of Mining, and the sheer idiotic decisions make by those in power when the money was pouring in, we have lost our major revenue. With this came a record deficit and a compound effect on everything.
The Australian and State Governments are doing everything in their power to return us to deficit. So we have cuts to nearly every sector and of course, higher taxes.
The worst seems to be over now but without Mining or a new big industry soon, we a seriously doomed.
I hate to say this but if you go to any metropolitan area in my state at least, you will notice a larger homeless population than say 5 years ago. Offices in the CBD are 20% to 30% vacant now compared to 5 years ago.

We have been badly hit by the Mining downtown with very little attention given because we still want to be seen as a flourishing 1st world country but in all honesty we are not really flourishing at all.

But really, if you are skilled and qualified in a Trade or Doctor or something like that, Australia is a great place to live and work. If your going for entry level to medium jobs, you are going to struggle with lack of industry.
I sometimes wish I was never born here and could come as a tourist, I would probably have a much different view on our country's current situation. I love Australia but damn some people have really stuffed it up.


Good Post. I certainly agree it is the case. A lot don't want or are unable to see what is increasingly evident. Although apathy has long been an Australian curse. Sometimes confused with positivity.


The divide within society has become ever increasingly marked and all too seldom discussed as the wider implications within society are simply glossed over or ignored. Which far exceeds the wealth divide of course.
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Old Dec 17th 2017, 11:54 pm
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Oh dear you really are living in the Perth bubble.

Yes boring, but that's Perth and its measuring stick. Time for you to branch out a little.

You also really need to get up to speed on what the creative class is today. Like days gone by, artists, budding writers and poets and actors, musicians and dreamers will be there, with their first and second other jobs while they continue to dream. Today's creative class is all about innovation with the potential to earn and contribute to society in many ways.

You really are resentful towards change.
Ok I'll attempt to explain to you, I mean the reality of what really happens, something I have witnessed on ground level and in the process will not attempt to mock or give conclusions, ill thought out, about yourself as an individual. You see while you mock, you don't actually write anything with regards to what could be debated.


Escalating real estate can and does seriously inhibit innovation.
As thus many forms of innovative and creative activity ....whether high tech business, art galleries or musical groups, to pull a few from the hat, require the same thing. That being cheap space.


It does little to innovation/creativity in a gentrified neighbourhood where only top high end retail shops can afford.


What results is the withdrawal of innovative and creative in such circumstances.


Further extreme real estate prices also hinder the ability to attract and amass new talent. This has been increasingly evident in all cities where escalating costs have inhibited talent to be replaced by a moneyed class of people, investors that may not even bother to rent, or those already rather advanced in their game.


Change for changes sake without reflection not necessary a good thing. Often not good at all.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 1:09 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Oh dear you really are living in the Perth bubble.

Yes boring, but that's Perth and its measuring stick. Time for you to branch out a little.

You also really need to get up to speed on what the creative class is today. Like days gone by, artists, budding writers and poets and actors, musicians and dreamers will be there, with their first and second other jobs while they continue to dream. Today's creative class is all about innovation with the potential to earn and contribute to society in many ways.

You really are resentful towards change.
Perth is not boring

Only boring people get bored in a city of over 2 million

Perth, still, has the highest incomes in Australia apart from the ACT (go figure)

The only other places on the planet where I can earn the highest income and have a 1st world, western lifestyle are Texas and, maybe, Alberta (and I don't got a visa) - although the UK is coming back into the picture

Having lived there, I do not like Sydney

So Perth it is
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 1:31 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Perth is not boring

Only boring people get bored in a city of over 2 million

Perth, still, has the highest incomes in Australia apart from the ACT (go figure)

The only other places on the planet where I can earn the highest income and have a 1st world, western lifestyle are Texas and, maybe, Alberta (and I don't got a visa) - although the UK is coming back into the picture

Having lived there, I do not like Sydney

So Perth it is
Take it up with your fellow Perth friend. Post 23.

He labelled it boring and it seems to be the root of all his troubles.

As for my opinion, its better than Brisbane.
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Old Dec 18th 2017, 1:34 am
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Default Re: Is Moving To Australia Still Worth It In 2017/18

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Ok I'll attempt to explain to you, I mean the reality of what really happens, something I have witnessed on ground level and in the process will not attempt to mock or give conclusions, ill thought out, about yourself as an individual. You see while you mock, you don't actually write anything with regards to what could be debated.


Escalating real estate can and does seriously inhibit innovation.
As thus many forms of innovative and creative activity ....whether high tech business, art galleries or musical groups, to pull a few from the hat, require the same thing. That being cheap space.


It does little to innovation/creativity in a gentrified neighbourhood where only top high end retail shops can afford.


What results is the withdrawal of innovative and creative in such circumstances.


Further extreme real estate prices also hinder the ability to attract and amass new talent. This has been increasingly evident in all cities where escalating costs have inhibited talent to be replaced by a moneyed class of people, investors that may not even bother to rent, or those already rather advanced in their game.


Change for changes sake without reflection not necessary a good thing. Often not good at all.
That is a complete load of nonsense.

San Francisco is one of the high priced real estate markets in the US. Does it fail to attract?

London, does its property prices fail to attract? Nope.

Sydney, failing to attract, again nope.

You are arguing against supply and demand. Good luck there.
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