Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Nov 14th 2013, 7:54 am
#31
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Japan, Germany, then Korea and now China - all examples of where the ability and desire to learn, develop and not focus on the past; coupled with a viewpoint that extends to planning beyond 5 years, and its amazing what you can do.
Nov 14th 2013, 8:17 am
#32
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Who said anything about the UK being great? Lions led by arseholes. The one place where the old school tie really does still rule the roost - and its the bit that makes a screaming mess of things. Given up on the future, focused on the past.
Japan, Germany, then Korea and now China - all examples of where the ability and desire to learn, develop and not focus on the past; coupled with a viewpoint that extends to planning beyond 5 years, and its amazing what you can do.
Japan, Germany, then Korea and now China - all examples of where the ability and desire to learn, develop and not focus on the past; coupled with a viewpoint that extends to planning beyond 5 years, and its amazing what you can do.
My comments were directed more at the usual 'how piss poor things are done in Australia compared to the UK' line that most of these threads take on.
Last edited by OzTennis; Nov 14th 2013 at 8:20 am.
Nov 14th 2013, 12:53 pm
#33
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Australia has an unusual workforce where lots of people are contractors with all the uncertainties and fallout that comes with it.
People applying for permanent positions have a wall of contractors often already filling the role (and everything that brings) to get over first.
People applying for permanent positions have a wall of contractors often already filling the role (and everything that brings) to get over first.
Nov 18th 2013, 9:29 am
#34
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Who said anything about the UK being great? Lions led by arseholes. The one place where the old school tie really does still rule the roost - and its the bit that makes a screaming mess of things. Given up on the future, focused on the past.
Japan, Germany, then Korea and now China - all examples of where the ability and desire to learn, develop and not focus on the past; coupled with a viewpoint that extends to planning beyond 5 years, and its amazing what you can do.
Japan, Germany, then Korea and now China - all examples of where the ability and desire to learn, develop and not focus on the past; coupled with a viewpoint that extends to planning beyond 5 years, and its amazing what you can do.
The old-boy network...There will always be issues with people recruiting friends. What happens when the middle-classes of which you are presumably a fully-paid up member start giving jobs to people in their networks? Do the old battlers get any redress?
Meh, I don't think it is, really.
There's a lot of remarks of 'that's just how it is here', 'its no worse and no better than any other country' - then delineated examples of exactly how it IS worse, big picture.
The insular, back-scratching nature of the thing holds back business in australia. The market economy doesn't lead to improvement, since Jim gets the job even if he's not the best, and even if he screwed up last time. New ideas, which almost by definition come from outside, are slow on the uptake. End result is when they are exposed to the cold wind of competition in the wider world - they are found wanting.
Australian manufacturing, australian retail, etc. - lose and fail, in part, because their hiring practices are NOT the best, ARE worse than the rest of the world - so the management is worse (less forward looking) and practices are inefficient.
Kinda says it all, really, don't it?
There's a lot of remarks of 'that's just how it is here', 'its no worse and no better than any other country' - then delineated examples of exactly how it IS worse, big picture.
The insular, back-scratching nature of the thing holds back business in australia. The market economy doesn't lead to improvement, since Jim gets the job even if he's not the best, and even if he screwed up last time. New ideas, which almost by definition come from outside, are slow on the uptake. End result is when they are exposed to the cold wind of competition in the wider world - they are found wanting.
Australian manufacturing, australian retail, etc. - lose and fail, in part, because their hiring practices are NOT the best, ARE worse than the rest of the world - so the management is worse (less forward looking) and practices are inefficient.
Kinda says it all, really, don't it?
We all know manufacturing and retail is an issue- and we are seeing a realignment over to Asia indeed - but I don't work in manufacturing or any sector which has a battler attitude. I choose to stay in areas where countries like Australia can still be competitive (internationally, even) or where there is a domestic market.
There are examples of people struggling but there might be very specific reasons why. I'm excited that Australia will align with SE Asia in some respects..I like working with clever Asians.
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Nov 18th 2013 at 9:33 am.
Nov 18th 2013, 11:46 am
#35
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Yes, if only on geography alone it makes sense for Australia to increasingly align with Asia. The Australian Open (tennis) is an example of this - it is promoted and marketed as the Grand Slam of Asia and the Pacific and the main sponsor is Korean.
It makes sense economically as well. Gone are the days when Blighty took our raw materials and foodstuffs; China, Korea, Japan etc now do that with the accent on raw materials.
I raised manufacturing actually because I saw Australia being critised for being backward looking, not innovative enough and so on. Countries which industrialised before the Asian block are all in the same boat. How can you compete with countries which have much lower labour costs and a less mature economy with primary and secondary industry dominant? Answer, you can't long term. That's why UK, US, Japanese, Australian etc manufacturing have gone the way they have and service employment now takes up 2/3 or more of the work force.
The proverbial often hits the fan when businesses try to outsource service jobs to cheaper countries but there's a limit to what you can have done in India or China - fortunately! Much service provision requires a local person to be on the spot to do them. Things have turned full circle in many ways and we now see companies mounting expensive advertising campaigns to say their customer service is done locally and not outsourced to another country.
It makes sense economically as well. Gone are the days when Blighty took our raw materials and foodstuffs; China, Korea, Japan etc now do that with the accent on raw materials.
I raised manufacturing actually because I saw Australia being critised for being backward looking, not innovative enough and so on. Countries which industrialised before the Asian block are all in the same boat. How can you compete with countries which have much lower labour costs and a less mature economy with primary and secondary industry dominant? Answer, you can't long term. That's why UK, US, Japanese, Australian etc manufacturing have gone the way they have and service employment now takes up 2/3 or more of the work force.
The proverbial often hits the fan when businesses try to outsource service jobs to cheaper countries but there's a limit to what you can have done in India or China - fortunately! Much service provision requires a local person to be on the spot to do them. Things have turned full circle in many ways and we now see companies mounting expensive advertising campaigns to say their customer service is done locally and not outsourced to another country.
Nov 19th 2013, 2:40 am
#36
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Yes, if only on geography alone it makes sense for Australia to increasingly align with Asia. The Australian Open (tennis) is an example of this - it is promoted and marketed as the Grand Slam of Asia and the Pacific and the main sponsor is Korean.
It makes sense economically as well. Gone are the days when Blighty took our raw materials and foodstuffs; China, Korea, Japan etc now do that with the accent on raw materials.
I raised manufacturing actually because I saw Australia being critised for being backward looking, not innovative enough and so on. Countries which industrialised before the Asian block are all in the same boat. How can you compete with countries which have much lower labour costs and a less mature economy with primary and secondary industry dominant? Answer, you can't long term. That's why UK, US, Japanese, Australian etc manufacturing have gone the way they have and service employment now takes up 2/3 or more of the work force.
The proverbial often hits the fan when businesses try to outsource service jobs to cheaper countries but there's a limit to what you can have done in India or China - fortunately! Much service provision requires a local person to be on the spot to do them. Things have turned full circle in many ways and we now see companies mounting expensive advertising campaigns to say their customer service is done locally and not outsourced to another country.
It makes sense economically as well. Gone are the days when Blighty took our raw materials and foodstuffs; China, Korea, Japan etc now do that with the accent on raw materials.
I raised manufacturing actually because I saw Australia being critised for being backward looking, not innovative enough and so on. Countries which industrialised before the Asian block are all in the same boat. How can you compete with countries which have much lower labour costs and a less mature economy with primary and secondary industry dominant? Answer, you can't long term. That's why UK, US, Japanese, Australian etc manufacturing have gone the way they have and service employment now takes up 2/3 or more of the work force.
The proverbial often hits the fan when businesses try to outsource service jobs to cheaper countries but there's a limit to what you can have done in India or China - fortunately! Much service provision requires a local person to be on the spot to do them. Things have turned full circle in many ways and we now see companies mounting expensive advertising campaigns to say their customer service is done locally and not outsourced to another country.
Having said that, if niche areas in the UK can compete so can niche areas in Australia. It's not completely dead in both countries as we're told.
In terms of the service industry and innovation I am quite excited about the future. I am aligning myself to work in Australian areas where there is either connections with Europe or Asia - providing the value where there is still some to be supplied..there is Singapore, Japan, India, London all in the mix as destinations for the Australian worker.
This may have changed again by the time I retire.
Nov 19th 2013, 2:52 am
#37
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Also OzTennis, remember there are loads of working class boys in the City working alongside the 'toffs'.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
Nov 19th 2013, 4:39 am
#38
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Also OzTennis, remember there are loads of working class boys in the City working alongside the 'toffs'.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
Very true for the most part, twas certainly the case when I did my 10 years in the City. Not that many FX dealers went to private school that I knew in my early years as a Bank messenger/Telex op at Morgan Guaranty back in the early 70's, I think that gutsy cockney upbringing was beneficial in the heated enviornment of FX dealers, so plenty of non private school people came through the ranks.. Far more Shipbrokers seemed to hail from public schools or contacts with ship owning families.
All was fine with the mixing at work, the divisions would show outside of work though.... Mostly to do with where people lived.
Football was a social leveller for me at least....
I wonder if one could go from just another bank worker/Shipping back up to FX dealer/Shipbroker in this day and age ?
I definitely knew of Telex ops that went on to become FX Dealers and ShipBrokers... In fact in the Shipbroking field it was half expected..... So I've really stuffed up LOL
Last edited by ozzieeagle; Nov 19th 2013 at 4:48 am.
Nov 19th 2013, 8:02 am
#39
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Posts: 7,949
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
I was actually replying to old Gerry but of course the answer is that you can't compete in many markets.
Having said that, if niche areas in the UK can compete so can niche areas in Australia. It's not completely dead in both countries as we're told.
In terms of the service industry and innovation I am quite excited about the future. I am aligning myself to work in Australian areas where there is either connections with Europe or Asia - providing the value where there is still some to be supplied..there is Singapore, Japan, India, London all in the mix as destinations for the Australian worker.
This may have changed again by the time I retire.
Having said that, if niche areas in the UK can compete so can niche areas in Australia. It's not completely dead in both countries as we're told.
In terms of the service industry and innovation I am quite excited about the future. I am aligning myself to work in Australian areas where there is either connections with Europe or Asia - providing the value where there is still some to be supplied..there is Singapore, Japan, India, London all in the mix as destinations for the Australian worker.
This may have changed again by the time I retire.
Australia is a small market in world terms and can't compete on economies of scale nor on labour costs and if local industry is protected with tariff barriers, quotas and licensing there are objections to that despite trying to preserve local jobs.
Services have to be the way of the future - not many people are required on the land nor to make things in factories. There is scope for construction (eg building new houses for all the immigrants!) but increasingly people will do something not make something.
Who would have thought even an generation ago that someone could make a living being a personal trainer or a dog groomer or an events organiser and the like? I'm not poking fun at these occupations, I'm saying who would have thought people would pay to have these things done for them once upon a time? It's a consequence of rising living standards and that as this happens people spend a declining proportion of their income on goods.
Nov 19th 2013, 8:13 am
#40
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Posts: 7,949
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Also OzTennis, remember there are loads of working class boys in the City working alongside the 'toffs'.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
What tends to get people hired is the same drive and tenacity - not so much class after all, many times.
I didn't go to a major public school - my parents were too skint - (they tried)
but I still was able to mix it in with all the 'toffs' no issue because we shared the same atttitudes to life - work hard play hard - laughs and giggles..I had some of their advantages in life after all..
There's a little secret where it's not who you know, or what you know, or where you went.. but how you just get on with people. I've had some little (maybe a few) advantages and connections here and there...yes, but I can't claim to have gone to Winchester.
If people actually got to know some 'toffs' rather than try and battle them then doors might open.
The world hasn't forgotten and is still paying the price for the tenacity and drive and willingness to take risks of all the boys in the City.
There was a documentary on Harrow school recently. On one episode they showed a careers evening where Old Harrovians met the boys who were leaving Harrow that year. They handed out their business cards to all and sundry and basically said 'come and see me for a job in the City once you've been up to Oxford or Cambridge'. One of the boys interviewed unashamedly said that was why his parents paid the fees (£30K to board plus extras).
Nov 20th 2013, 8:46 am
#41
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 33
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Well you know what the C stands for anyways 
Unfortunately, I cannot offer any advice on the job search, i had my job before moving. But i did have 5 interviews and know that our company will advertise for a position even though there is no headcount, just purely in anticipation that in a few months there will be an actual position.
Unfortunately, I cannot offer any advice on the job search, i had my job before moving. But i did have 5 interviews and know that our company will advertise for a position even though there is no headcount, just purely in anticipation that in a few months there will be an actual position.
Nov 20th 2013, 9:37 am
#42
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Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,139
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
If it's all about the old boys/City boys, the remedy is obvious. Have a sex change.
Nov 25th 2013, 7:43 am
#43
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 8
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
As an Aussie living in Scotland but returning to Melb in Jan I can tell you the market is very tough at the moment. I have had a number of friends retrenched recently and desperately looking for work that is not there. I have been look for work recently, and even went to oz for three weeks, just for interviews (of which I could only secure one) so very much know how you feel.
There is a "boys club" in some areas for sure, hiring a mate / internal resource does and will happen, but that is not just in oz, it happens everywhere, including the UK.
as others have Said, Nov is the worst time of the year to look for work. It will pick up in Jan / Feb time frame. Just hang in there, get your resume out to lots of recruitment companies and chase them regularly.
There is a "boys club" in some areas for sure, hiring a mate / internal resource does and will happen, but that is not just in oz, it happens everywhere, including the UK.
as others have Said, Nov is the worst time of the year to look for work. It will pick up in Jan / Feb time frame. Just hang in there, get your resume out to lots of recruitment companies and chase them regularly.
Nov 27th 2013, 9:43 am
#44
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Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
Well yes, what else is left but niche markets when basic industry and most manufacturing can't compete against newer, lower cost base producers? Unfortunately most niche markets are small.
Australia is a small market in world terms and can't compete on economies of scale nor on labour costs and if local industry is protected with tariff barriers, quotas and licensing there are objections to that despite trying to preserve local jobs.
Services have to be the way of the future - not many people are required on the land nor to make things in factories. There is scope for construction (eg building new houses for all the immigrants!) but increasingly people will do something not make something.
Who would have thought even an generation ago that someone could make a living being a personal trainer or a dog groomer or an events organiser and the like? I'm not poking fun at these occupations, I'm saying who would have thought people would pay to have these things done for them once upon a time? It's a consequence of rising living standards and that as this happens people spend a declining proportion of their income on goods.
Australia is a small market in world terms and can't compete on economies of scale nor on labour costs and if local industry is protected with tariff barriers, quotas and licensing there are objections to that despite trying to preserve local jobs.
Services have to be the way of the future - not many people are required on the land nor to make things in factories. There is scope for construction (eg building new houses for all the immigrants!) but increasingly people will do something not make something.
Who would have thought even an generation ago that someone could make a living being a personal trainer or a dog groomer or an events organiser and the like? I'm not poking fun at these occupations, I'm saying who would have thought people would pay to have these things done for them once upon a time? It's a consequence of rising living standards and that as this happens people spend a declining proportion of their income on goods.
Yep, there are some non public school types in the City but I guarantee there is a far higher proportion of public school types on boards and in the City than there is in the general populatioon.
The world hasn't forgotten and is still paying the price for the tenacity and drive and willingness to take risks of all the boys in the City.
There was a documentary on Harrow school recently. On one episode they showed a careers evening where Old Harrovians met the boys who were leaving Harrow that year. They handed out their business cards to all and sundry and basically said 'come and see me for a job in the City once you've been up to Oxford or Cambridge'. One of the boys interviewed unashamedly said that was why his parents paid the fees (£30K to board plus extras).
The world hasn't forgotten and is still paying the price for the tenacity and drive and willingness to take risks of all the boys in the City.
There was a documentary on Harrow school recently. On one episode they showed a careers evening where Old Harrovians met the boys who were leaving Harrow that year. They handed out their business cards to all and sundry and basically said 'come and see me for a job in the City once you've been up to Oxford or Cambridge'. One of the boys interviewed unashamedly said that was why his parents paid the fees (£30K to board plus extras).
Very true for the most part, twas certainly the case when I did my 10 years in the City. Not that many FX dealers went to private school that I knew in my early years as a Bank messenger/Telex op at Morgan Guaranty back in the early 70's, I think that gutsy cockney upbringing was beneficial in the heated enviornment of FX dealers, so plenty of non private school people came through the ranks.. Far more Shipbrokers seemed to hail from public schools or contacts with ship owning families.
All was fine with the mixing at work, the divisions would show outside of work though.... Mostly to do with where people lived.
Football was a social leveller for me at least....
I wonder if one could go from just another bank worker/Shipping back up to FX dealer/Shipbroker in this day and age ?
I definitely knew of Telex ops that went on to become FX Dealers and ShipBrokers... In fact in the Shipbroking field it was half expected..... So I've really stuffed up LOL
All was fine with the mixing at work, the divisions would show outside of work though.... Mostly to do with where people lived.
Football was a social leveller for me at least....
I wonder if one could go from just another bank worker/Shipping back up to FX dealer/Shipbroker in this day and age ?
I definitely knew of Telex ops that went on to become FX Dealers and ShipBrokers... In fact in the Shipbroking field it was half expected..... So I've really stuffed up LOL
It's often the middle class boys copping it the most who are a bit lost.
Nov 27th 2013, 9:56 am
#45
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Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Peregian Springs, Sunshine Coast
Posts: 1,872
Re: Melbourne Interviews, its a funny old game
If you look overall at the Australian economy... its agriculture and mining. Compare this to any other country in the world and you'll see these are the industries of a model third world country.
Make nowt, grow nowt, worth nowt as the saying goes.
Make nowt, grow nowt, worth nowt as the saying goes.