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Melbourne - the first 18 months

Melbourne - the first 18 months

Old Apr 21st 2006, 12:22 am
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Thumbs up Melbourne - the first 18 months

It's been over a year and a half since I last posted here, and I thought maybe some readers would be interested in an update.

The last post was about our impressions and situation three months after arriving.That was this post:

The first three months

Summary

We haven't regretted coming here in the slightest and think it was one of the smartest decisions in our lives. Australia is home now!

Finding Friends

As I'd written we were building up an amazing new circle of friends and acquaintances. As my wife joked at once point, we had a better social life in 6 months in Australia than in 8 years in Denver! Only, it really wasn't joking.

I don't want to step on any toes, but if you have problems finding friends in Australia, then I'm very sorry, but it's *you*. If you make the slightest effort, you will be welcomed with open arms.

One new friend we trust enough to have her take care of our pets, and she loves doing it! Another is just about inseparable from my wife, and they're off doing "girl things" - leaves me more time to play games. Sometimes we have to juggle invitations and activities weeks ahead of time, we feel like such VIPs.

Professional Life

As I had written I had a job within weeks of arriving. For about 7 months I worked for one of the Big 4 firms. It turned out to be moderately interesting - it's the typical "borrow the client's watch then tell them what time it is" consulting business. Unfortunately I didn't do much in my field of expertise and was a bit bored.

Until one of the clients that I was working with - a small government agency in Melbourne - were so impressed that they approached me to take over their IT department as CIO!

How could I say no? The pay was significantly higher, the perks vastly better, and I would be king of the roost and not some Big Four cogwheel. "Poaching" seems far less of a concern in Australia than in the US (where one former company of mine sued ex-employees when they went to work for a client).

My wife had it a bit harder and it took longer to get going. She had tried to establish her own business here, based on a successful model in the US, but it did not "translate" very well into this market. In the end she also just did not enjoy it all that much. It dragged her down and had me worried - with my professional career taking of in our new life, would she question our decision to come here?

But she kept herself busy on the side, with her main line of expertise, which is corporate training. A few weeks ago, she decided to just fold the business and start looking for a job. I guess, here too, it's a bit of a "meant to be" as she looked for a mere two or three weeks before she found an excellent well-paying job with the corporate education divisions of one the Australian universities.

That puts us on quite firm financial footing finally, which we most certainly need for...

Housing

Early in the year, we had started to look into the purchase of our own home. The rental house we currently are in, is a dump (more on that below), and we couldn't wait to get into our own four walls. At first, it was the all-too-common gasps of shock. The housing market is as insane as in certain parts of the US. There is no balance to what you get for the price you pay. We were starting to get a bit depressed.

Gotta rant a little bit.
If there is one thing that annoys us, nay, that we truly dislike here in Australia, it is housing and everything connected to it!

The auction system appears to us "yanks" to be a disgraceful charade. What do you *mean* - the seller can *bid* themselves to drive the price up to where they want it? Is this some sort of joke? Don't get us started on all these people involved doing nothing but taking additional slices out of the pie,
meaning taking more of your money?

What do you get for it? To be frank, the quality of housing here is a total and utter disgrace. That includes newly built housing as well. What is considered acceptable building standards here, especially in terms of energy efficiency, would not meet building codes anywhere in the US - the oh, so energy-wasting country.

Most people (builders and those living in their products) seem to think "insulation" is something you keep your beer cold with... I suppose that explains why it's actually Australia that has the highest per-capita greenhouse gas production, and not the USA.

Inside these pathetic houses you're sweating and miserable on a hot day and you're freezing and miserable on a cold day. If you're lucky a house has gas-ducted heating and at least you can make up for the cold - at a monthly price. But A/C is rare and in summer you are reduced to a whimpering, sleep-deprived mess, even in Melbourne.

We were almost *glad* that our first summer was one of the rainiest and coldest in Melbourne, ever. We skipped the worst of the notorious 2 weeks of 40degrees. But our second summer was hot and sultry and the house would go 30 degrees plus inside.

Thank goodness, they finally got a clue and since July 1, 2005 they have "5 star" guidelines in place, which require proper insulation to be installed in all newly built homes. It's still inferior to US code, but vastly better than the brick and paper shacks built before then.

</End of Rant>
As a result we started to focus on buying off the plan as they call it. We bought property in area that was former government parkland and therefore had large wildlife and nature reserve stretches, with old growth trees, such as beautiful 150 year old gum trees. All construction had to be fit into this, with most trees designated to be kept and maintained.

So, for the last year or so our life has been consumed with planning and building our home there. It'll be new, modern, networked through-out, properly insulated and follow our wishes in the design. There's light at the end of the tunnel, as we're supposed to move in at the end of May.

Not surprisingly, considering my rant above, we had a bit of a time finding a good builder. We thought quite frankly think that most of them are sub-standard, designed to make a quick buck in a market where people just don't know any better. One builder stuck out of that mob though, they advertised smart building, with well laid out homes, and energy efficiency even before it was legally required - well, efficient at least by the standards here.

We really liked their designs. Mostly. We were starting to make it our mission to drag construction styles in this country in to the 21st century, kicking and screaming if needs be! So, we picked one of their better designs and started "Americanising" it.

I lost count how often, during the planning and designing, we would make the architects jaw drop - and he would make *our* jaws drop. There was much "we never did it that way" from him, as well as "why the hell would you do it that way" from us? Arrogant? Maybe. But it's *our money* and *we* have to live in it.

But, we got most of our design in - and it seemed like in the end they seemed to start thinking about generally adopting some of our ideas. In fact, just a few weeks ago, we met the agent at one of their model homes and he pointed out a heating system that we had insisted to be put into our home!

If you start seeing houses in Australia that aren't all "form over function" and actually don't treat energy efficiency like something for tree-hugging hippies, or that make ergonomic sense instead of just being nice to look at, you can send us a thank you!

Now, we're counting down the days, and are looking forward to winter in our cozy new place (with spa bathtub, dontchaknow, our one real indulgence?

Banking and Finance

The flip-side of the loose attitude towards construction is that it extends to finances. Being newcomers we were not very optimistic on our chances to secure financing for cars, a mortgage or credit cards, so soon after arriving.

We were tickled pink that I had managed to get a credit card quite easily, as soon as I had a job secured. As I had written before, we even had a car loan approved.

The mortgage was the hardest to get. Only one bank actually was willing to give us a mortgage at anything approaching acceptable conditions (no, Mr Other Banker, my kidneys are not up for donation as collateral). Thank goodness interest rates are still fairly low.

All in all, money is made available easily. Maybe that's why Aussies are so deep in debt? The amount of credit offered to us, based on my sole earning at my former company, which was significantly lower than it is now, is.... frightening. We're fiscally very conservative people, and are just not comfortable with the amount of debt we could go into, thanks to high credit card limits and what not.

As for the mortgage - not much choice if we wanted to be in anything that we would consider acceptable living. I guess we're spoiled high maintenance people.

Moving On

Our 2 year anniversary of arriving here is coming up. We're keeping a close eye on the citizenship laws. There's no doubt that we will attempt to get dual citizenship and add the Australian as soon as we can. There no thoughts about going back, and once we're in our real new home, that feeling with likely only deepen.

Thanks for reading! Hope a few found it interesting.

Mike
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 12:38 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai
Finding Friends

I don't want to step on any toes, but if you have problems finding friends in Australia, then I'm very sorry, but it's *you*. If you make the slightest effort, you will be welcomed with open arms.
I am glad you have had such a positive experience but for many this is simply not the case and it has litle or nothing to do with them as a person.

Infact difficulty in developing friendships on anything other than a superficial level is one of the reasons many give for their returning to UK.

That said, not all parts of OZ are the same and Perth is notoriously difficult to make any 'real' friendships.

While we admittedly change over time in ways, essentially we generally remain the same person we always were and many who have had quite vibrant social circles in their homeland or other countries find OZ a complete shock.

The portrayal of the easygoing, laidback, friendly, Australian is largely one of an antiquated and now defunct myth. Seems though that this is a sore point to a lot of Australians and those who are totally hyped on the diea of making OZ work for them. It certainly isn't objective or factual.
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 1:12 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

As we are seriously looking at buying a place in Melbourne, your post is very timely. We are renting in an estate where we have seen houses go up around us, and I totally agree with you on the standard of building and the lack of insulation. I was amazed when I saw the place go up behind us with just a damp-proof membrane over the wooden frame and then bricks on top !

Whereabouts are you building and which builder are you going with ? I am definately in the same camp as you when it comes to heating. The ducted heating in our place is in the ceiling, which is just pointless. If you could give some more detail, I would be very interested in what you have done to "Americanise" your house.
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 2:02 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai

We haven't regretted coming here in the slightest and think it was one of the smartest decisions in our lives. Australia is home now!

[B
Finding Friends[/B]

As I'd written we were building up an amazing new circle of friends and acquaintances. As my wife joked at once point, we had a better social life in 6 months in Australia than in 8 years in Denver! Only, it really wasn't joking.

I don't want to step on any toes, but if you have problems finding friends in Australia, then I'm very sorry, but it's *you*. If you make the slightest effort, you will be welcomed with open arms.

One new friend we trust enough to have her take care of our pets, and she loves doing it! Another is just about inseparable from my wife, and they're off doing "girl things" - leaves me more time to play games. Sometimes we have to juggle invitations and activities weeks ahead of time, we feel like such VIPs.



Mike
What a great update and very similar to how we have found it after being here nearly 3 years. Can't compare it to the whole of Aus but certainly in the area we are in Melbourne it is so friendly and we often try to have a quiet weekend without invites but they often happen adhoc anyway.
I know a few people that have found the place not for them - and wouldn't life be boring if it was for everyone? Like you say though I think you have to be open to it and I am sometimes embarrassed to be assosiated from the same British background with (just a few of) the whinging Poms I have come across who are rather stand-offish, rude and unfriendly and dare I say it ...snobby!

It's not better it's not worse,...it's different so saying "back in the UK (or in your case America) we didn't do it like that it was better" will not make you any friends. Embrace this wonderful place and if it's not for you, well at least you gave it your best shot, and move on.

Good on you,


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Old Apr 21st 2006, 4:08 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by kiwichild
I am glad you have had such a positive experience but for many this is simply not the case and it has litle or nothing to do with them as a person.

Infact difficulty in developing friendships on anything other than a superficial level is one of the reasons many give for their returning to UK.

That said, not all parts of OZ are the same and Perth is notoriously difficult to make any 'real' friendships.

While we admittedly change over time in ways, essentially we generally remain the same person we always were and many who have had quite vibrant social circles in their homeland or other countries find OZ a complete shock.

The portrayal of the easygoing, laidback, friendly, Australian is largely one of an antiquated and now defunct myth. Seems though that this is a sore point to a lot of Australians and those who are totally hyped on the diea of making OZ work for them. It certainly isn't objective or factual.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 5:19 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by BenandPam
Whereabouts are you building and which builder are you going with ? I am definately in the same camp as you when it comes to heating. The ducted heating in our place is in the ceiling, which is just pointless. If you could give some more detail, I would be very interested in what you have done to "Americanise" your house.
Hi there,

As I stated as of July 2005, Victoria has 5-star energy requirements. There's a website that you can google for that outlines the requirements in terms of R-ratings. Our wall insulation is going to be 2.7 and the ceilings 4.5, with what they call +7 stars for additional measures taken (double glazing windows, some of them with Argon, through-out, etc).

Our house will be in Macleod, in the Springthorpe development. The builder we went with is called Inform. They normally build down in Brighton but are one of the approved builders in Springthorpe.

I'm afraid that having the ducted air flow come through the ceiling in the ground floor is a battle we lost. So we made up for it by getting Nobo heater upstairs in selected rooms, which are individually thermostat controlled. There too, you can google for them.

Good luck!

Mike
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 5:31 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by kiwichild
While we admittedly change over time in ways, essentially we generally remain the same person we always were and many who have had quite vibrant social circles in their homeland or other countries find OZ a complete shock.
You are certainly correct in that assessment, except of course it implies that there is a good chance that they would find *any* place a complete shock.

I've long felt - or at least back when I still frequented various immigration boards and forums - that too many people are jumping into this woefully underprepared. With that I don't just mean financially or economically but from an expectations and social adaptability standpoint.

Some people are not "meant" to emigrate and leave their social comfort zone. That's not an intrinsically "good" or "bad" thing. It's just a fact.

Blaming the *other* culture for not being welcoming to ones own social comfort zone - *that* is, I believe.

Whether it's British immigrants who have more problems than other, when coming to Australia, I don't know. Unless there's empirical research on that, I consider it all anecdotal.

Our own anecdotal experience matches that of other friends and co-workers who are Canadian, US-American and Chinese. Cum grano salis.

Mike
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 5:33 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai
Hi there,

As I stated as of July 2005, Victoria has 5-star energy requirements. There's a website that you can google for that outlines the requirements in terms of R-ratings. Our wall insulation is going to be 2.7 and the ceilings 4.5, with what they call +7 stars for additional measures taken (double glazing windows, some of them with Argon, through-out, etc).

Our house will be in Macleod, in the Springthorpe development. The builder we went with is called Inform. They normally build down in Brighton but are one of the approved builders in Springthorpe.

I'm afraid that having the ducted air flow come through the ceiling in the ground floor is a battle we lost. So we made up for it by getting Nobo heater upstairs in selected rooms, which are individually thermostat controlled. There too, you can google for them.

Good luck!

Mike

Hi Mike,

Loved your post, as I did the first one. Glad to hear that things are still going on nicely for you.

I love the Macleod area!! Grew up around Rosanna, Bundoora etc.

I am sure once you are in your own home all the wrinkles will be ironed out and things will just get better and better.

Good luck to you both,

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Old Apr 21st 2006, 6:06 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

A postiive, focused switched-on person. And a seppo to boot

Know how you feel mate.

The things you say I've been saying for years.

Will send you a PM

cheers

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Old Apr 21st 2006, 6:12 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by kiwichild
I am glad you have had such a positive experience but for many this is simply not the case and it has litle or nothing to do with them as a person.
We are all different. Seems like this applies to you, and these others you mention. It doesn't to many(!)

Originally Posted by kiwichild
The portrayal of the easygoing, laidback, friendly, Australian is largely one of an antiquated and now defunct myth.
Sometimes, someplaces.

Originally Posted by kiwichild
Seems though that this is a sore point to a lot of Australians and those who are totally hyped on the diea of making OZ work for them. It certainly isn't objective or factual.
Now you're getting all political again lol. A sore point for alot of Australians? Sounds more like a sore point to you and the crowd you mention, seriously!. If things are working out, then things will not be sore.
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 6:28 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai
It's been over a year and a half since I last posted here, and I thought maybe some readers would be interested in an update.

Housing

Early in the year, we had started to look into the purchase of our own home. The rental house we currently are in, is a dump (more on that below), and we couldn't wait to get into our own four walls. At first, it was the all-too-common gasps of shock. The housing market is as insane as in certain parts of the US. There is no balance to what you get for the price you pay. We were starting to get a bit depressed.

Gotta rant a little bit.
If there is one thing that annoys us, nay, that we truly dislike here in Australia, it is housing and everything connected to it!

The auction system appears to us "yanks" to be a disgraceful charade. What do you *mean* - the seller can *bid* themselves to drive the price up to where they want it? Is this some sort of joke? Don't get us started on all these people involved doing nothing but taking additional slices out of the pie,
meaning taking more of your money?

What do you get for it? To be frank, the quality of housing here is a total and utter disgrace. That includes newly built housing as well. What is considered acceptable building standards here, especially in terms of energy efficiency, would not meet building codes anywhere in the US - the oh, so energy-wasting country.

Most people (builders and those living in their products) seem to think "insulation" is something you keep your beer cold with... I suppose that explains why it's actually Australia that has the highest per-capita greenhouse gas production, and not the USA.

Inside these pathetic houses you're sweating and miserable on a hot day and you're freezing and miserable on a cold day. If you're lucky a house has gas-ducted heating and at least you can make up for the cold - at a monthly price. But A/C is rare and in summer you are reduced to a whimpering, sleep-deprived mess, even in Melbourne.

We were almost *glad* that our first summer was one of the rainiest and coldest in Melbourne, ever. We skipped the worst of the notorious 2 weeks of 40degrees. But our second summer was hot and sultry and the house would go 30 degrees plus inside.

Thank goodness, they finally got a clue and since July 1, 2005 they have "5 star" guidelines in place, which require proper insulation to be installed in all newly built homes. It's still inferior to US code, but vastly better than the brick and paper shacks built before then.

</End of Rant>
As a result we started to focus on buying off the plan as they call it. We bought property in area that was former government parkland and therefore had large wildlife and nature reserve stretches, with old growth trees, such as beautiful 150 year old gum trees. All construction had to be fit into this, with most trees designated to be kept and maintained.

So, for the last year or so our life has been consumed with planning and building our home there. It'll be new, modern, networked through-out, properly insulated and follow our wishes in the design. There's light at the end of the tunnel, as we're supposed to move in at the end of May.

Not surprisingly, considering my rant above, we had a bit of a time finding a good builder. We thought quite frankly think that most of them are sub-standard, designed to make a quick buck in a market where people just don't know any better. One builder stuck out of that mob though, they advertised smart building, with well laid out homes, and energy efficiency even before it was legally required - well, efficient at least by the standards here.

We really liked their designs. Mostly. We were starting to make it our mission to drag construction styles in this country in to the 21st century, kicking and screaming if needs be! So, we picked one of their better designs and started "Americanising" it.

I lost count how often, during the planning and designing, we would make the architects jaw drop - and he would make *our* jaws drop. There was much "we never did it that way" from him, as well as "why the hell would you do it that way" from us? Arrogant? Maybe. But it's *our money* and *we* have to live in it.

But, we got most of our design in - and it seemed like in the end they seemed to start thinking about generally adopting some of our ideas. In fact, just a few weeks ago, we met the agent at one of their model homes and he pointed out a heating system that we had insisted to be put into our home!

If you start seeing houses in Australia that aren't all "form over function" and actually don't treat energy efficiency like something for tree-hugging hippies, or that make ergonomic sense instead of just being nice to look at, you can send us a thank you!

Now, we're counting down the days, and are looking forward to winter in our cozy new place (with spa bathtub, dontchaknow, our one real indulgence?

Banking and Finance

The flip-side of the loose attitude towards construction is that it extends to finances. Being newcomers we were not very optimistic on our chances to secure financing for cars, a mortgage or credit cards, so soon after arriving.

We were tickled pink that I had managed to get a credit card quite easily, as soon as I had a job secured. As I had written before, we even had a car loan approved.

The mortgage was the hardest to get. Only one bank actually was willing to give us a mortgage at anything approaching acceptable conditions (no, Mr Other Banker, my kidneys are not up for donation as collateral). Thank goodness interest rates are still fairly low.

All in all, money is made available easily. Maybe that's why Aussies are so deep in debt? The amount of credit offered to us, based on my sole earning at my former company, which was significantly lower than it is now, is.... frightening. We're fiscally very conservative people, and are just not comfortable with the amount of debt we could go into, thanks to high credit card limits and what not.

As for the mortgage - not much choice if we wanted to be in anything that we would consider acceptable living. I guess we're spoiled high maintenance people.

Moving On

Our 2 year anniversary of arriving here is coming up. We're keeping a close eye on the citizenship laws. There's no doubt that we will attempt to get dual citizenship and add the Australian as soon as we can. There no thoughts about going back, and once we're in our real new home, that feeling with likely only deepen.

Thanks for reading! Hope a few found it interesting.

Mike
So glad to read your post as you have mentioned exactly how we've felt about housing - To such an extent that we have just purchased some land. We're in the very initial stages of gathering information in respect of what sort of house to construct.

Both myself & my husband have agreed we want an energy efficient house but also to incorporate a few of our personal 'wants'. I've recently contacted Master Builders & the Housing Industry Assoc to obtain information regarding 'green smart' builders & designs.

If you have any helpful recommendations & information particularly in respect of builders we would gladly receive them with thanks....
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 7:01 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Caroline G

If you have any helpful recommendations & information particularly in respect of builders we would gladly receive them with thanks....
Hi,

At the Springthorpe development the main developer has contracted with about 15 builders. Many of these have or had model homes within the development that we had a close look at.

The styles are all over. It's always an individual choice, of course.

We liked the Inform model best and then found a base plan that was close to how we personally prefer our layout (2 professional adults, one of them a geek, the other a sewing addict and 4 pets). Inform was very willing and helpful in making modifications to optimise that base design and we had a very good relationship with their agent.

By all means, try to have a look at model homes, not just plans on paper. Even if the plan of the model is totally different from what you would want, you get a good impression of the construction, the materials used, the "look and feel".

Cheers!
Mike
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 7:16 am
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai
Hi,

At the Springthorpe development the main developer has contracted with about 15 builders. Many of these have or had model homes within the development that we had a close look at.

The styles are all over. It's always an individual choice, of course.

We liked the Inform model best and then found a base plan that was close to how we personally prefer our layout (2 professional adults, one of them a geek, the other a sewing addict and 4 pets). Inform was very willing and helpful in making modifications to optimise that base design and we had a very good relationship with their agent.

By all means, try to have a look at model homes, not just plans on paper. Even if the plan of the model is totally different from what you would want, you get a good impression of the construction, the materials used, the "look and feel".

Cheers!
Mike

Thanks... I've also been advised to check out the Aurora development in Epping. Apparently, there are some 6 star rated houses there.
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 9:25 am
  #14  
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Originally Posted by Marakai
I don't want to step on any toes, but if you have problems finding friends in Australia, then I'm very sorry, but it's *you*. If you make the slightest effort, you will be welcomed with open arms.
I'm sure you're right. I am outgoing, once I know people. However, I suffer from the problem that I always think people are taking pity on me, and don't want to press myself on them. I also don't want to socialise too much with people from work. And don't really know where to start looking for other friends.
I'm sure they'll come along - we're going back to the UK in a week, and I can pick up my violin and join and orchestra, which will help - but after 6 weeks in Melbourne, I would love to know where to start with this.
Originally Posted by Marakai
My wife had it a bit harder and it took longer to get going. She had tried to establish her own business here, based on a successful model in the US, but it did not "translate" very well into this market. In the end she also just did not enjoy it all that much. It dragged her down and had me worried - with my professional career taking of in our new life, would she question our decision to come here?
I totally sympthise with this - my job is going fantastically, and is better than anything I've had in the UK for years. I'm loving it. Sadly my husband's hasn't taken off aswell. But I'm sure he will find something he loves eventually. There is something out there for everyone.

And I'll find my mates too...
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Old Apr 21st 2006, 9:48 am
  #15  
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Default Re: Melbourne - the first 18 months

Fabulous post. Glad everything is going so well. If your OH is still looking for work maybe she could get into functional housing design - there seems to be a gap in the market.

Seeing as you're coming from Colorado I'm curious as to what made you head off to Melbourne? I would have thought that's one of the nicer parts of the US. Also, what is it about life in Melbourne that's better than Denver or the US in general?

Best of luck with the new house.
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