Actually, the flashing red and/or amber lights at a junction in the US still means a mandatory STOP. It just means that AFTER YOU'VE STOPPED, you may proceed when clear.

- CDM

Well, that's like saying ONLY people that commit the worst category of crime should ever be prosecuted. Where do you draw the line? There's almost always a worse crime that could go punished compared to the breaking of the road-rules you've been caught for.

If people should never be prosectued for minor crimes, why have the rules to begin with? Who would follow them if it was widely accepted that you'd never get done for breaking them? Surely that way madness lies.

I actually agree with you that it can be inconvenient to have to come to a complete stop when it would seem unnecessary to do so given the lighting, visibility, lack of other road users at the time, etc. However, as they say, 'thems the rules' and the rules are there for good reaons that are not always immediately obvious. I could think of several reasons why these rules might be in place - but there are probly lots more than I can't think of. Best not find out by having an accident - such as running over a child that sprung from nowhere out of your blind spot!

- CDM

You are not alone. When the Traffic Motorcycle Squad wanted to make a point about their withdrawal from service they performed a final operation where they targeted speeding drivers and those failing to stop at one particular intersection. The result was that they issued 32 tickets in an hour for those failing to stop at the stop sign.

http://northcoast.inmycommunity.com....bikes/7521559/

Slipshot isn't saying that you should be able to ignore rules you don't agree with: he's saying that some rules aren't very good rules if enforced to the extreme.

There *has* to be some discretion, surely? If you stop at an unmanned roadwork red traffic light on a road that stretches hundreds of miles in front and behind you, and it stays red for minute ater minute, how long would you stay there? No traffic in sight to the horizon. After a quarter of an hour I think 99% of people would check there was no traffic and pass. Thereby breaking the law and subject to prosecution. The fact that the system was stuck on red doesn't enter into it.

It would be interesting to know how many crashes there are at the intersection per year, and how many involved cars that came to a complete stop v how many *almost* stopped. (Not talking about those that just shot across regardless.)

>>Best not find out by having an accident - such as running over a child that sprung from nowhere out of your blind spot!<<

Brings up the issue of school slowdown areas again!

I live near a well known private school. It has flashing lights showing 40K/hr morning and afternoon during school days - and during this time I can remember seeing a child probably five or six times in the 4 years I've been here.

Saturdays is something else - they are swarming all over the place for sports - but it's outside school hours so no speed restrictions!

There are stacks of rules I don't know - and actually when I get around to it I will find out. I'm tipping I am doing the wrong thing at roundabouts (signalling) for example and there are a fair amount around here. There will be others.

After reading this post I did a search and found this site which has PDFs of the road rules, drivers handbooks and suchlike:

http://www.service.sa.gov.au/content...at=6&subcat=42

Cheers

Paul

Very true. Funny thing is , the yellow diamond signs are the single most important sign on the roads in Europe, and not knowing what they mean is a serious issue. 99% of brits have no clue on what they mean.

I hope like hell I never meet you on some of the roads I was on today then - if you made the assumption that those bend speeds are advisory and you can do double that you wouldn't be able to make that assumption twice.

It's advisory for a reason.

That reminds me.

A colleague picked me up in Brussels once after he'd been traveling around Germany and Austria for a few weeks. We were on a roundabout when this other car came shooting onto the roundabout causing him to brake hard.

"Did you see that?", he says, "He just cut me up!".

"That's because in some European countries you're supposed to give way to people coming onto the roundabout rather than give way to people on the roundabout".

"That explains a few things".

I agree - I hope not to meet you and you'd be going so slowly I'd just overtake you and leave you behind. In your opinion I'd not make it but I bet in the majority of cases I would.

That's fine if you want to drive at that speed. I have no issue with it. But given I have a suitable car and the capabilities and it is perfectly safe to drive round the bend at that speed, then I will.

BUT again, the key thing is common sense. I do not drive around every bend at double the advisory speed because I can - I use common sense and judgement and if I cannot see round the corner I go slower. If it's an open bend that I can clearly see then yes, I go faster than the advisory and it is perfectly safe to do so. Like overtaking on bends - if you can see what is coming (or not coming) then it is perfectly safe.

If you car control abilities are not as good as other people, why should that stop those people from using those abilities. Likewise, if you have a car that has far better road holding capabilities than some of the crap on the roads, you can use it.

It's all about the application of common sense and knowing your abilities. Something the original poster commented on when common sense should be applied to the handing out of tickets.

No it's not - it's applying common sense and being intelligent about it. A minor crime is still a crime - a petty theft is still petty theft and affects someone or more than one, but not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is so petty as to be pathetic, and harms absolutely no-one. The child scenario (while extremely weak), could still happen if you came to a complete stop.

I hate this generalising that perpetuates amonsgt people - you are basically saying if you reduce speed to 2kph and carry on, you'll likely kill a child. If you stop, you never will. Like the wipe off 5 nonsense. 65 is bad. 60 is OK. Complete shite. If every person was identical, every road identical, every car identical, every day and weather identical - yes. But that is not the case and never will be.

Quality - we have all been there and done it and learnt!!!

Exactly. About the time I arrived, NSW had a massive re-categorisation of road speed limits. Some that were previously 50 became 60, and many that were 60 became 50. So overnight we were supposed to believe that we had been driving dangerously fast - legally - before, and can now drive "dangerously fast" - by the preevious markings - today.

Nothing is so cut and dried - and nothing stops the idiots who every night race each other in their Holdens and stolen BMWs around the streets.

I doubt that *they* stop completely at the signs, either <g>.