Originally Posted by rammygirl

But like the houses most don’t actually own the cars (or the latest iPhones they use) all are on finance/contracts of some sort. They get talked up to bigger, better models and it it also much more common to have a company car in the UK.

I agree that Australia is more egalitarian on the basis of the minimum wage and the fact that skilled workers earn living wages. My son supported himself through uni here (no grant just HECS loan) living independently by casual shifts at a cafe no way could he have done that in the UK.

Originally Posted by Amazulu

In my average Joe, middle-class circle in Australia, I don't know any kids who are doing service jobs as a way of life

Originally Posted by Moses2013

I nearly choked on a sausage roll. So are you telling us that in Australia only students work in service jobs?
There is a labour shortage in Europe too, though many people doing service jobs see it as a way of life be it hospitality, finance, healthcare, security, education, customer service etc..
Australia must have really changed in the last few years...............

Originally Posted by Amazulu

I regret mentioning clean cities as it's distracted from the debate and you've focussed on it, but anyhoo. A few years ago, I spent some time in Liverpool. A great city and I loved the place and people but it was absolutely filthy. The same with Manchester (which I didn't like as much). The point I was trying to make was that just spending some time in a city here will show you what a wealthy, functioning country Australia is. It is wealthier and healthier than the UK - HDI, per capita GDP, life expectancy, disposable income, purchasing power etc. It just is. As I was saying, if some don't like these facts, that's their indaba, not Australia's

Originally Posted by Amazulu

Thanks for using the quote system - it makes conversations easier to follow and is just basic common courtesy

Salaries are higher because there is always a supply/demand equation with the availabilty of labour - always. COL pressures have nothing to do with it. People in, say, Mozambique may earn $1 a day, yet a loaf of bread probably costs 50c. They earn a low salary but their COL is high. They could ask for $2 a day but they ain't going to get it as there's a lot of other people chasing that $1 and 50c loaf. Now scale that up to a Western country like Australia and the same equation is in play - your COL is rising and you ask for a raise. Your employer today has to pay it as he needs your services as labour supply is tight, yet there have been situations where there has been high inflation yet incomes have not risen as labour is available and there is no need for employers to increase wages. Supply/demand. End of. Levels of disposable incomes are high in Australia - much higher than the UK. According to the OECD, Australia is 4th in the world for per capita disposable income and the UK is 14th. If you need me to explain what disposable income is, I'd be happy to. Boil it down and the standard of living and levels of wealth are higher in Australia compared to the UK. They just are.

Hope this helps

You started this debate and if you're bored after one reply, why bother in the first place?

Bizarre

Originally Posted by Amazulu

I agree but data on discretionary income by country is hard to get - there's certainly nothing rigorous out there. The best I've found is things like the best country to be born in or where to live, quality of life etc. Numbeo has some data but it's a low rent source:
https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-li...by_country.jsp

If you filter that table on purchasing power, Australia is 2nd - outf**kingstanding

The EIU (which is a quality source) has some data but it's 10 years old:
https://www.economist.com/news/2012/...ottery-of-life

Interestingly, in 1988, the UK was 7th on that list and Australia was 27th - a role reversal on steroids!

You kind of see this in reality too - drive around an Australian town or city and you see it's clean, tidy, shit works - it looks nice. it's a great place to live - we all know it - and if someone can't see it then that's their issue and nothing to do with the country

Originally Posted by brits1

as my DH says there’s rough/dirty in all countries it’s just dressed up differently.

Originally Posted by Mrs M

I can't resist.. Lol! What a <snip> You cannot possibly compare the systems in your simplistic view! Crazy ! Look at the piddly population of Australia. It doesn't get the wear and tear does it I mean London is co very overcrowded how can it be as tidy ? What do you think? If any Australian city had 12 million people condensed it would be exactly the same as far as litter etc goes.
One cannot compare apples with pears.

Everything you have said is you're opinion good on you but don't expect others to see the world as you do.

Originally Posted by brits1

Honestly I found your opinion to be so far off the mark that if you do not already wear glasses then you should, now that might sound rude and I was brought “well” but cannot help myself, Filthy….then you have must not have travelled to cities/countries that I have and although it’s not a nice thing to say but a lot of them were “filthy” when we lived in Australia some suburbs looked “down in their look” usually the older suburbs but that because of age at least in WA they use to have pavement’s on both sides of the street and delis etc you could walk to. My Aussie born and bred friend you to be aghast that I like to visit (especially the older “towns”) different areas In Perth that her were (her words) “Rough as guts” now that’s her perspective as she lives in a very affluent area south of the river (on the river) I worked “on the district” in Perth and I can say some places even surprised me and as my DH says there’s rough/dirty in all countries it’s just dressed up differently.

Originally Posted by Mrs M

What a <snip> comes to mind! About Quote..... If you need me to explain what disposable income is I'D be happy to. Lol! I didn't start it I offered my opinions that's what this forum is all about its not about <snip> trying to belittle other peoples opinions. Yours are no more valid than anyone else's so basically wind your neck in! As Harry enfield said I am probably considerably richer than you! Lol! I Have been running successful businesses for over 39 years I don't think I need a <snip> To explain anything to me about supply and demand.

Anyway as I said bored now. So in essence go forth and multiply as I'm not interested to hear the word of God Amazulu further on this subject.

How did I do folks? No don't answer it seriously Lol! Peace and understanding

Originally Posted by Mrs M

I can't resist.. Lol! What a <snip> You cannot possibly compare the systems in your simplistic view! Crazy ! Look at the piddly population of Australia. It doesn't get the wear and tear does it I mean London is co very overcrowded how can it be as tidy ? What do you think? If any Australian city had 12 million people condensed it would be exactly the same as far as litter etc goes.
One cannot compare apples with pears.

Everything you have said is you're opinion good on you but don't expect others to see the world as you do.

Originally Posted by Moses2013

That is very true. I suppose posters like Amazulu will have their views and that's it. As long as others do the dirty work and they are not involved directly, it's all great. One reason why some people with multiple properties paint a rosy picture is that they don't want the value of their properties to drop. I can also spend time in Andratx and claim how clean and well functioning the country is.

Originally Posted by Amazulu

Whoa, easy there Turbo. I never said anything about what I own or have - property or otherwise. That's in your head only. I never post about property prices as they are what they are and we have no control over them - especially by painting a 'rosy picture' on an internet forum! Seriously?

All I'm saying is that Australia is economically and socially more successful than the UK - an opinion backed up by hard data. That's it. Oh, and that its cities are cleaner!

Hope this helps

Originally Posted by Amazulu

Whoa, easy there Turbo. I never said anything about what I own or have - property or otherwise. That's in your head only. I never post about property prices as they are what they are and we have no control over them - especially by painting a 'rosy picture' on an internet forum! Seriously?

All I'm saying is that Australia is economically and socially more successful than the UK - an opinion backed up by hard data. That's it. Oh, and that its cities are cleaner!

Hope this helps