Big Galah

True. But that attitude is just as didactic and undemocratic.

nurselindsey

Can I ask a quick question - As regards citizenship and the July 2007 rules is that when visa was granted or when validated - we had our visas granted in March 2007 but did not enter the country until October of that year - I understood that we had to wait four years from the date of entry

keithandsam

hi
the reason we are doing it is to protect our(and kids)future. you never know,in years to come,some lunatic may get into power and decide to throw all immigrants out!!!!!!!

Centurion

I believe it is from the date you became PR, that is to say you actually entered the country, not from the date of issue of the visa itself.

People who became permanent residents on or after 1 July 2007 must have been lawfully resident in Australia for four years immediately before applying including:

12 months as a permanent resident and absences from Australia of no more than 12 months, including no more than three months in the 12 months before applying.

People who became permanent residents before 1 July 2007 and apply before 30 June 2010 must have been physically present in Australia as a permanent resident for a total of two years in the five years before applying, including one year in the two years before applying.

moneypenny20

How on earth do you work that one out

EvannTel

But this surely has no legal standing? Its a moral type thing. If you're an MP and renounce UK, then after you retire you can apply for a UK passport again? UK never requires its subjects to renounce their status and Aus cannot change UK law?

Regarding conscription, if the state of the world ever got so bad Australia signed up non military cannon fodder, chnaces are UK would too and you'd be expected to do your bit living in Aus or not. I dont see how Aus can legally demand non residents fight for them. Refusal could mean visa cancellation I guess.

Also I dont see why you couldnt leave on Aus on your UK passport, might make getting back hard though. One officer got sniffy with me coz left and returned on Aus o Aus passport but sued UK while away. Didnt like but nothing he could do about it.
And finally, voting, you should vote. Not voting undermines democracy. Not the other way

ossigeno

Calm down. I'm quite happy to be allowed to vote, it's the compulsion I'm not certain about.

JAJ

It was a High Court interpretation of the Australian Constitution, in 1992.

You can formally renounce British citizenship upon application to the Home Office. There is no entitlement to get it back in these circumstances.


Prison if in Australia, a ban on re-entry if outside.

MartinLuther

Aus is not changing UK law. Aus is saying that if you want to be an Federal MP (of Australia) then you should (or at least try to) renounce your other citizenship(s). This in no way changes the law of the UK nor does it change the law of Germany, or any other country.

The "moral type thing" is interesting. The Australian Constitution was originally a legal document of the British Parliament. Its section 44 states that a foreign subject or citizen could not hold federal office. It was confirmed by the High Court in the 90s that Britain was a foreign power (in relation to Australia) which seems reasonable.

So which country gets the blame for the moral type thing?

Big Galah

Sorry, I was being silly, while making a serious point.

A democratic society is one where people have a choice, and I believe that should include the choice to vote or not. Having a government say you must vote has autocratic undertones that are more reminiscent of governments that don't allow people to vote at all.

(And to say you can always deliberately spoil your vote is to tell someone how to vote.)

Siren & Brian

Only registered voters have to vote. So you can be a citizen and not register to vote so therefore you dont HAVE to vote.

But yes if people cant be bothered to vote then they shouldnt whinge when they dont like the decisions the pollies make.

asprilla

exactly my sentiments... I find it a bit hypocritical really, being told on one hand that you are living in a democracy but then on the other, being forced to vote !

For what its worth, I will definitely be voting if/when I become a citizen.... but the fact that the voting process is forced upon you, makes me agree that this is a (albeit very minor) negative aspect of being a citizen.

Also, I can't stand it when people show disrespect towards individuals who, for whatever reason, don't wish to vote. Just let them be ! Stop trying to force your ideals and values onto them !!!

DunRoaminTheUK

How on earth can they justify that? You can't vote here or work in a federal post but you can be press-ganged into giving up your life for a country that has not afforded you full rights?

JAJ

It's just the way life works.

The option to leave the country would of course be there, which is not something that would necessarily be available to citizens in this kind of circumstance.

Of course there might well be conscription in Britain too.

bothworlds

A democratic society is one that is governed by will of the people, not where people have complete freedom of choice. I think you're thinking of an anarchic society

In Australia there is no compulsion to *vote*, it is simply required to present oneself at a voting centre. This makes parties more likely to present policies aimed at governing rather than at getting out the vote a la the USA. Neither compulsion nor any other system is perfect, but ours (IMO) is the best one on offer, all things comsidered.