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How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

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Old May 11th 2005, 11:38 am
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Default How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Four of our five have been at school for a week now in Perth (years 2, 4, 6 and 7 - the seven year old having to step back down to Primary school until the end of the year).
Admittedly this is a short time over which to form an opinion, and our experience is confined to one state school only, but the pattern seems to be that in the three 'R's Australian schooling is about 1.5 to 2 years behind the UK.
So as not to appear one-eyed, other early obervations are:
In French my eldest is at about the same level as in the UK (French is studied here from year 3).
We visited two primary schools here, and on both occasions the half hour tour was hosted by two year 7 pupils. Both times we were very impressed by their eloquence - which was definitely superior to what an average year 7 could achieve in the UK.
The general standard of resourcing and artwork also appeared better.
Also last week was the school Carnivale - a performance in which everyone performed - again this seemed to be of a higher standard that the average UK Xmas play.
This and next week the focus is on swimming - every class attends daily for an hour - again I rate this approach as superior to the UK where school swimming was limited to twelve weekly classes in only two out of six primary school years.

Our children are generally happy at school here and are already forming good friendships, but we are concerned at the backward steps taken in certain areas.

We're discussed this with the headmaster. He has emphasised the way in which the school seeks to challenge its pupils. Years 4 and 5 often learn together, with our year 4 doing year 5 work. Years 6 and 7 also mix similarly. He also emphasises the broader Australian curriculum and the fact that British headmasters visit regularly to share ideas. There are also additional programmes for talented kids (PEAC and SEAC), although our landlady believes that these focus on non-academic subjects. He also advised us to talk with our children's individual teachers to discuss challenging them, taking examples of UK work if possible. We've already started this, but with limited success. Our eldest feels particularly frustrated at not being challenged.

I can't believe that our experience is unique. Could other parents with more experience advise us as to how they tackled this issue?

Are private schools any better?
Is the 2 year gap made up in High School? (Ours are likely to have to atend State high schools for economic reasons!).

(I would emphasise that all of our other experiences since arriving have been positive!).
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Old May 11th 2005, 12:18 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

I think that the gap must be caught up somewhere as here in Queensland they leave school to go to uni at 17.
Our experience has been that the school has identified the gap and they now take our daughter (in year 6) out some days to do extension maths work with someone in year 7 on extension work, this meaning that they are doing high school work. Although she finds the academic work easy, she enjoys school due to all the other areas. I do think that it is a much broader education here which surely must be better.
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Old May 11th 2005, 12:26 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

We had a similar situation when we arrived, our daughter became bored in the local state school though it was only grade 1, she had already done a years schooling in uk where more emphasis was placed on reading, writing etc so was way ahead of her classmates in those areas (despite being average in uk) and though we were also impressed with the way they prioritise social skills here, we were concerned that losing motivation at such a young age may follow her through school. We moved her after the year to a private school (a church affiliated one, not one of the more expensive ones) and feel there is a marked difference and they seem much more able/willing to accomodate different levels of learning, whilst still building on the confidence etc.
Friends with older children have told me there seems to be less difference, so i wonder if its just the earlier years due to the disparity in starting age?
We are much happier now, and she is much more challenged, it was a difficult decision as we werent that keen on private education and were worried about another upheaval in her little life, it was definately the right decision for us, but i do believe it all evens out and teenagers here often appear more socially comfortable and adept than I remember from uk.
Good luck,
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Old May 11th 2005, 12:45 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

I have to say I dont agree that they are that much further ahead in Australia..because of the change in the way the years are worked out here my daughter is with children that would have all been in the year above her in her english school and I think the work reflects that, also think the kids are given more responsibility here than in the UK.

My son is in year 2 here, whereas he was in year 1 in the UK, his birthday is on new years eve and the school debated on putting him in year 1 as he is def the youngest in his class..so he has in fact had the same amount of time at school as all of his class, although they are all older than him.

Seems like its swings and roundabouts, but my kids arent bored with the work...think its hard for them to go from being oldest in their classes to the youngest.

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Old May 11th 2005, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Originally Posted by bal56
Four of our five have been at school for a week now in Perth (years 2, 4, 6 and 7 - the seven year old having to step back down to Primary school until the end of the year).
Admittedly this is a short time over which to form an opinion, and our experience is confined to one state school only, but the pattern seems to be that in the three 'R's Australian schooling is about 1.5 to 2 years behind the UK.
So as not to appear one-eyed, other early obervations are:
In French my eldest is at about the same level as in the UK (French is studied here from year 3).
We visited two primary schools here, and on both occasions the half hour tour was hosted by two year 7 pupils. Both times we were very impressed by their eloquence - which was definitely superior to what an average year 7 could achieve in the UK.
The general standard of resourcing and artwork also appeared better.
Also last week was the school Carnivale - a performance in which everyone performed - again this seemed to be of a higher standard that the average UK Xmas play.
This and next week the focus is on swimming - every class attends daily for an hour - again I rate this approach as superior to the UK where school swimming was limited to twelve weekly classes in only two out of six primary school years.

Our children are generally happy at school here and are already forming good friendships, but we are concerned at the backward steps taken in certain areas.

We're discussed this with the headmaster. He has emphasised the way in which the school seeks to challenge its pupils. Years 4 and 5 often learn together, with our year 4 doing year 5 work. Years 6 and 7 also mix similarly. He also emphasises the broader Australian curriculum and the fact that British headmasters visit regularly to share ideas. There are also additional programmes for talented kids (PEAC and SEAC), although our landlady believes that these focus on non-academic subjects. He also advised us to talk with our children's individual teachers to discuss challenging them, taking examples of UK work if possible. We've already started this, but with limited success. Our eldest feels particularly frustrated at not being challenged.

I can't believe that our experience is unique. Could other parents with more experience advise us as to how they tackled this issue?

Are private schools any better?
Is the 2 year gap made up in High School? (Ours are likely to have to atend State high schools for economic reasons!).

(I would emphasise that all of our other experiences since arriving have been positive!).
Find a state school that provides Accelerated Learning. They will place your child at the level at which they perform. My sons are in a private school with a similar system. E.g. my son is in Yr 6, but he's doing year 7 science & math.
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Old May 11th 2005, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

It is my understanding that children start school later in Australia as opposed to here in the UK and that would definitely account for them being 1.5 to 2 years behind. However, my niece used to go to school here in the UK and is at her local state school in Aus. Here she was behind because she had come from South Africa, where they too start school later, and really battled to catch up. Despite every effort, the school did not seem interested in my little niece and her learning needs. When she got to Aus in Jan, however, she ws placed in year 4 in a year 3/4 class. The teachers realised that she was behind academically so discussed keeping her in year 4 again this year. With that sorted out, they worked extremely hard at building her level of confidence and social skills. she has turned into an extremely well adjusted child who is very comfortable with staying behind. I spoke to my sister-in-law recently and she said that my niece is so confident now that she is called upon to assist the year 3's in her class.

I sometimes think that academics isn't what it is all about and here in the UK we tend to get hung up on league tables and performance, forgetting that being happy and well adjusted is just as important.
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Old May 11th 2005, 1:42 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Originally Posted by G'Day
Find a state school that provides Accelerated Learning. They will place your child at the level at which they perform. My sons are in a private school with a similar system. E.g. my son is in Yr 6, but he's doing year 7 science & math.
Agreed. One of our boys is in a Year 2/3 class (hes year 2) & he's doing alot of Year 3 stuff & an Accelerated Maths program.

As others have said, lots of other subjects & interests in schools over here apart from just the 3Rs.
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Old May 11th 2005, 1:48 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Originally Posted by coxfamuk
It is my understanding that children start school later in Australia as opposed to here in the UK and that would definitely account for them being 1.5 to 2 years behind. However, my niece used to go to school here in the UK and is at her local state school in Aus. Here she was behind because she had come from South Africa, where they too start school later, and really battled to catch up. Despite every effort, the school did not seem interested in my little niece and her learning needs. When she got to Aus in Jan, however, she ws placed in year 4 in a year 3/4 class. The teachers realised that she was behind academically so discussed keeping her in year 4 again this year. With that sorted out, they worked extremely hard at building her level of confidence and social skills. she has turned into an extremely well adjusted child who is very comfortable with staying behind. I spoke to my sister-in-law recently and she said that my niece is so confident now that she is called upon to assist the year 3's in her class.

I sometimes think that academics isn't what it is all about and here in the UK we tend to get hung up on league tables and performance, forgetting that being happy and well adjusted is just as important.

Exactly my thoughts...our kids were in private school in the UK and now in local state school here...I think one thing that makes the difference here is that if your child is born between sept and end of december they will be in the same year they were in at home, therefore the majority(jan-sept)will be 1 year behind in Australia which may account for kids being bored...like I said my 2 seem very happy, have made friends and are doing tonnes more stuff at school than they were doing in the UK.

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Old May 11th 2005, 1:56 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

I know exactly how you feel. Our eldest also had to go "back down" to primary school having already moved up to middle school in the UK. All three of our children (now aged 10, 12 and 14) found the school work too easy and have been amongst the high achievers in the class. I was even asked by one of the teachers how come I wasn't sending them to private school? (We were on the waiting list at the time.)

My eldest originally missed out on a place at the private school and attended just a week at the local state high school, because a place came up after all and we jumped at it. We had of course already purchased the uniform and text books for the state school. The state school text books that were needed were only a few in number and not particularly challenging I thought. However, the text book list for the private school was totally different - it cost a small fortune, but these books looked interesting, challenging, difficult and I even found myself thinking hey it looks like going to school would be good fun! At the maths lesson in the state high school my daughter was flabbergasted when the teacher began by going over the difference between odd and even numbers. She was even more shocked to find that she was the only one with her hand up when the teacher asked for someone to give an example of an odd number! These kids were 12/13 years old!! I was actually feeling quite depressed at the time, because I felt so guilty that all the hard work my kids had been used to at their UK school, was now just wasted. When I got the phone call inviting us for an interview at the private school, I was truly overjoyed! My daughter is now in year 9. She has found both years 8 and 9 very challenging and has to work hard to achieve good marks.

We were fortunate enough to be offered a place for my son last year. He was only in year 4 and we had originally intended to wait until year 8 (high school) but decided we needed to get him out of the state system as soon as possible, to give him the best chance in education. He too is being given more challenging work.

My middle daughter is still stuck at state primary school, bless her, this is her final year. She is the real brainy one out of the three. She has been attending PEAC courses since year 5. Only a handful of children pass the PEAC tests with high enough marks to do the course, but if your child joins the school after the tests and the teacher thinks they are a high-achiever, then they can be nominated. The subjects are mainly non-acedemic and will of course take them out of school for one whole morning or afternoon each week, so they miss whatever the rest of the class are doing. Examples of the subjects that have been on offer: Lego Robotics, Astronomy, Puppetry, Poetry and Creative Writing, Greek Mythology, Computer Skills. I can't help thinking that there are many disruptful, non-academic kids out there who would benefit from some of these courses more than the gifted ones though. Anyhow, if you think your child ought to be on one of these courses, ask the PEAC co-ordinator at your school about it. Also at primary state schools, the children are tested at the end of year 5 for musical aptitude. Again, there is a limited number who get through, but these children are asked to select a musical instrument that they would like to play and in year 6, get an hour of free tuition each week. In year 7 they can join a band made up of children from other primary schools in the area and they practise each week in addition to the school lessons. My daughter chose the clarinet and is doing really well. For the first year you can hire the instrument from the school, after that it's up to you to buy one.

Back in the UK, private schooling was never going to be an option with three children. Here though, private education is subsidised by the government, so the fees aren't so staggering. And because we are in Mandurah (not Perth), the fees are somewhat less. Our school even has pupils commuting from Perth each day. We still have to make some sacrifices to pay for it all though, no trips back to the UK for instance, no fancy holidays abroad each year. BUT the good news is - our middle child (the brainy one) has just been offered a scholarship! So that's a big help financially.
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Old May 11th 2005, 2:06 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Thanks for the info so far folks.
Could someone explain what Accelerated Learning consists of?
Is it extra homework, extra classwork or something more?
As I mentioned our children's school allows year 4s to undertake year 5 calibre work if sufficiently able, and likewise with years 6 and 7.
This obviously doesn't compensate however for a two year gap!
When I searched for "Accelerated Learning" in Western Australia, one of the links is one which I've seen before here:
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/schoolsinwa.html
'Our' school features on the list!
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Old May 11th 2005, 2:19 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Originally Posted by bal56
Thanks for the info so far folks.
Could someone explain what Accelerated Learning consists of?
Is it extra homework, extra classwork or something more?
As I mentioned our children's school allows year 4s to undertake year 5 calibre work if sufficiently able, and likewise with years 6 and 7.
This obviously doesn't compensate however for a two year gap!
When I searched for "Accelerated Learning" in Western Australia, one of the links is one which I've seen before here:
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/schoolsinwa.html
'Our' school features on the list!
Where is the 2 year gap...my kids are in the same year here as they were in the UK...oldest in year 4 was in year 3 bearing in mind they class year R as year 1 here...my youngest is in year 2 here and was in year 1 in UK.

Is it because our children have late birthdays that they are in the same year?

Spalens wife.
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Old May 11th 2005, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

The two year gap is our perception of how much more advanced our children were in UK schooling in Maths and English Grammar compared with Oz. (There is no difference in the chronological years that they've been placed in at school here compared with the UK). Having had four in the primary system back home and having spent many weekends assisting with homework it is quite easy to draw parallels. My son in year 7 is currently being given maths and English Grammar problems on a par with what my daughter was doing in Year 4 back home (she was being given year 5 calibre work as she was bright for her age).
I hope that this makes sense!

Last edited by bal56; May 11th 2005 at 2:45 pm.
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Old May 11th 2005, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Originally Posted by bal56
The two year gap is our perception of how much more advanced our children were in UK scholling in Maths and English Grammar compared with Oz. (There is no difference in the chronological years that they've been placed in at school here comared with the UK). Having had four in the primary system back home and having spend many weekends assisting with homework it is quite easy to draw parallels. My son in year 7 is currently being given maths and English Grammar problems on a par with what my daughter was doing in Year 4 back home (she was being given year 5 calibre work as she was bright for her age).
I hope that this makes sense!
Well that is def not my experience, although like I said both my children are in the same year, although 70% of the children in my daughters class would be in the year above her in the UK. I have also been helping with homework and dont know if we have struck lucky with our local school but they seem to be more advanced than many are describing here. My son for example is working on basic fractions in year 2 whilst my daughter is involved with the schools options progranme, she gets to choose a subject that is of interest to her..this is from year 4 to year 7, she has chosen art and is painting a mural for the local train station and having a great time.

We are pleased with the standard of education, we are maybe thinking that the problem was the UK system...which was a very small indep school...my son only had 8 other kids in his class with 2 teachers..whereas here he is in a class of 21, still small.

Hope you manage to find something that will ensure the kids dont get bored with their work...I am happy that mine are more than challenged.

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Old May 11th 2005, 3:12 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

Are private schools any better?

(I would emphasise that all of our other experiences since arriving have been positive!).[/QUOTE]

I can sympathise with you. In the first weeks here I was really disappointed in the school (private) that we had chosen. My daughters just in Year 1 but had a terms schooling in the UK which was fast paced and challenging. The contrast when we came here was quite shocking- even though I had kind of prepared myself by reading posts on this site. I have to say that after a term things have been improving and the kids are getting more individual work to challenge them. Its interesting that some days the kids do so many things - PE art music etc. that there is little time for the 3 Rs. At Year 1 it proabably doesn't matter but the contrast with the UK can be alarming at first.


The thing that shocked me most was the old fashioned and boring reading books for the kids. They were randomly chosen with no progression from book to book. I ended up ordering a load of books from Amazon "Oxford Reading Tree" which my daughter loves and feel that this is helping her reading progress. It makes me feel better as well.

I find the question on schooling such an emotional thing. The most important thing in our whole relocation was that the wee one was happy . She is certainly happy with school and I think we will be..

Good luck
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Old May 11th 2005, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: How do you keep your kids challenged in Aussie schools?

.. in case you didn't spot the obvious mistake in the first post ... the YEAR 7 had to step back down to Primary school!
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