Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Ok, I probably need to be a bit more specific as the whole world has changed I guess...
So, obviously, no doubt that Australia has handled the pandemic well in terms of overall cases/deaths. However, as we move on from 2020 into a "new normal", I feel that Australia is being left behind while the majority of the world moves on. This is often referenced as "Fortress Australia" and the obsession with zero Covid - and yes, this is probably the only reasonable strategy at this point of time given the slow vaccine roll out.

However, I feel that there has been a shift in Australian society - more insular, more fearful, more parochial and yes, more racist/anti-migrant/anti-expats.
My impression is based on following Aussie news, reading comments on social media/newspapers etc., reading experiences from returning citizens/residents and conversations with friends in Australia.

I usually live in Sydney but made the decision to temporarily move to Europe in October in order to assist a family member after major surgery. The timing was right as my work contract had ended so I just put my stuff into storage and off I went after obtaining a travel exemption. A few months later, I was offered a job in one of our major Covid vaccination centres so I decided to tag along and help. My job finishes end of July and I managed to get a flight back to Sydney early October (even though I am currently holding my breath due to the newly announced flight caps).

It has been absolutely horrifying to read all those comments from Australians who continued to blame returning "travellers" and showed absolutely no understanding for complex situations and lacked of any compassion. A friend of mine who works for Queensland Health (in an emergency response team dedicated to the pandemic) confirms that this view is not limited to uneducated Bogans (sorry...) but is even an acceptable view amongst highly educated health professionals (e.g. being obsessed with zero cases, closed borders, not trusting anyone, not looking at what other countries are implementing, casual racism etc.).

Some friends have asked me if I really want to come back - and tell me to prepare myself for a divided country.
In addition, I read those stories of fully vaccinated people in quarantine which were denied to reunite with their dying relative despite testing negative multiple times. I am health professional myself and I was truly shocked.

I cannot help but wonder - has Australia lost its compassion and mateship? Neuroscientific findings confirm that people are usually unable to make rational decisions when they are living in fear. Is this the case - a fearful country?

I should add that I see one exception - New South Wales. My impression is that the NSW Premier is the exception and has a balanced, compassionate and common-sense approach (e.g. she was opposed to cutting flight caps). Some may recall my older threads where I contemplated moving to Brisbane. Well, to be honest, the last few months have seriously put me off based on the parochial rhetoric coming out of Queensland... so I probably remain in Sydney which appears to be a lot more open based on the NSW approach.

But still.. there is a side of me that feels slightly uncomfortable when I think of my return to Australia - I guess, it's a feeling of being less welcome and being confronted with indifference or even hostility towards my situation. (full disclaimer - I am vaccinated).

Have Australians become less empathetic during the last few months? What's the current vibe in Sydney? I am somehow dreading my return.

Not defending the European handling of the pandemic at all - but this finger-pointing towards individuals (which is often done by politicians in Australia) has not really happened here and Europeans would not cheer if their governments decided to essentially "shut the gates" and lock out their citizens...But this ongoing abuse of "returning travellers" seems to be the new national sport in Australia.

It makes me a bit sad when I observe what happened to this country I once fell in love with...

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Come on back. Sydney is a vastly different place to Brisbane. Sydney is only jealous you got to travel. We are in a bit of a lockdown at the moment. Pubs and restaurants are shut - apart from that it's business as usual.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I haven't really noticed much condemnation/fuss about returning travellers, a few news stories and comments on social media, but to be honest the subject doesn't seem to be on most people's radar. Same with lockdowns and travel restrictions, some agree with them, some don't, and there have been a few protests against. But for the most part, everyone's just getting on with their lives the best they can, same as everywhere really.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I can promise you its not just among health professionals. I also work for Qld Govt as part of the pandemic response team, amongst other things, and deal with people from all government departments and Queensland Police Service. I really have to bite my tongue these days as so many highly educated and competent public servants and police make comments about how if no one was allowed to cross the border, there would be no risk of COVID ever again. Comments about people being stupid to have not given up their homes and lives overseas and come home to "safety" early last year instead of staying in dangerous foreign countries. People who just do not understand how - of why - the UK is now actually letting people have a life again. And today, people saying that after being locked down for 4 days and (funnily enough) being released just in time so that a crowd of 15,000 can go to a Broncos match is ok because "they are all sensible Aussies, foreigners don't go to those games" . Absolutely no logic.
I can only echo your comments, certainly where Qld is concerned, its changed, and not for the better.

All true. I've challenged some senior staff over some of the horrific quarantine stories like that one, and the only response is a vague "oh theres probably more to it than that" whilst being totally unable to think of what more there could be that justifies some of these decisions.
Compassion? Not a word thats much ine evidence I'm afraid, certainly up here. The majority of people seem to be like sheep, they hang on the Premier's every word and slavishly believe all she says, especially the stuff that makes them fearful. The Nanny State is alive and well and can be found north of NSW.

Returning travellers are seen as the root of all evil these days, I think. And as for those like me that say I'll be glad when I can leave, we are just seen as insane, why would we want to go out into the big nasty world full of non-Aussies.
At least Gladys in NSW can see the border issue needs to be sorted soon, I think if it was left to Annastacia and her sidekick, the borders would never be opened again.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

No

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Thanks for your replies so far.
It really seems to be vastly different depending on the state and its handling of the pandemic. So Sydney seems to be a positive outlier so far (apart from the panic buying and hoarding of toilet paper which apparently has happened again during this lockdown :lol:).

pollyanna Wow, that sounds crazy but kind of affirmed my impression that Queensland is quite extreme with their paranoid response. My friend tells me similar things and she is at the point where she just tries to avoid news about this as it upsets her too much. I really wonder if those Queensland government officials ever accept that Covid will be treated like any other infectious disease once the vaccinations have ramped up. I mean, that's just a given - how can they ignore scientists and continue with this extreme rhetoric? Completely irresponsible - but I guess that's what won an election.

So, in a way, it appears to be true - a deeply divided country.
I always joked that NSW will probably be opening international borders before WA and QLD fully open their domestic borders (consistently....) - but this scenario surprisingly seems an option.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Don't be so sure on that. The borders are a federal decision and whilst NSW would undoubtedly be the first to put its hand up to take incomers (it already takes more than twice anyone else) Scomo will be very conscious of the insular WA and QLD votes needed at the next election. Note in this thread already, the WA crowd thinks nothing has changed. They are all drinking a bit of McGowen koolaid over there.

This is what this man said a few days ago. "The idea that you go overseas to do a course at a uni, or you go overseas for a conference, or you go overseas for a business meeting — then you tack on a four-week holiday — is just wrong and it shouldn't be happening."

Mr McGowan said he assumed some of those who had embarked upon multiple return overseas trips during the pandemic were FIFO workers.

"But ... going off to Africa working FIFO in the middle of a pandemic, when we now have many of our cases coming back from Africa, just has to stop.

"We have plenty of jobs here, people need to look for work here.

"One of the biggest issues we have is not enough people for the jobs we have."

This guy needs to take the blinkers off. There are plenty of jobs that can't be done in Australia or you wouldn't do in Australia. This bloke knows that anything other than zero cases is bad for his politics, and he is crap at controlling hotel quarantine. He loves rattling off the one liners, attracting the dumb to his brand of politics. - "McGowan says the hard border will help keep West Australians safe"

However we might have an unexpected saviour in the mix - Dan Andrews. Whilst Dan voted for the cap reduction recently to cosy up to QLD and WA he has said its very temporary. He knows Victoria is in the shitter right now and it needs borders open to function. Melbourne is also of a similar ilk to Sydney in that respect. Stay tuned, its only a matter of time before QLD and WA get rolled.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

McGowan is the male version of Jacinda Adhern, comes across as caring for his own people while underneath he is causing substantial damage. The Healthcare industry is severely understaffed and several few hospitals were put on yellow alert because of it. The building industry is going through a significant boom and many people in Perth are becoming homeless due to the fact there is a series rental shortage which is only growing because there are few tradies available to build properties which is pushing labour and material costs up.

WA desperately needs overseas skilled labour however it's become popular in OZ to be a hardliner when it comes to the border so a few like McGowan are using this to their advantage. One more thing you'll always here McGowan talk about and that is lockdowns when there's one or two cases. Let me tell you something, Perth has NEVER seen a lockdown which should prove they aren't essential, what they call a lockdown here was in fact level 2 or 3 restrictions in New Zealand, since when is McDonald's, office works, kmart etc essential? He's calls this a lockdown to appear hardline and serious when it comes to protecting the lives of WA residents and so many lap it up, he really does have a cult following. One thing I noticed about Australia is how manipulative the Premiers have been in politicizing covid especially in the less populated regions, this alone should prove their career is more important that the well being of their voters, sadly few can see that.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

But when His Majesty ScoMo does just that, why shouldn't everyone else?

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Scomo's team are the one's giving exemptions for conferences, work and the holiday. I have no problem with this. Anyone should be able to travel and if they want to put some type of cap on it, make it for holiday makers. Everyone else should have a choice. It was the National Cabinet and namely QLD, WA and Vic who rode rough shot over reducing the caps.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

As an Australian immigrant myself, I don't think there has been any fundamental shift in racial attitudes during the pandemic. What there has been is a somewhat racially-biased identification of who is responsible for a considerable proportion of returning-Australian arrivals, who in turn are seen as (passive) generators of the all-too-frequent hotel quarantine breaches. Which in turn generate locally-spread cases, which lead to lockdowns.

It doesn't help that the Delta variant of the virus is commonly described as "first identified in India".

So there is certainly some sentiment within the country that "Indian-Australians aren't true Australians" (or some such nonsense), even if they were born here in Oz. And/or -- equally nonsense -- that if they travelled outside Australia for whatever reason, they should just get in a queue to come back, until the health system can handle them.

...

But that despicable type of attitude has always existed among some. It has just found a new outlet during Covid-19.

But continuing along beside it, is mateship. In the meal-room where I work, everyone knows everyone else's story: how their parents are, how their kids are doing, especially during the pandemic, and especially if they have relatives offshore that they're concerned about.

And there's no racism in that room, among mates of any background.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

So so lucky. Some of the comments thrown my way when i talk about how i just want to see my family, how hard it is here with no close friends, no family, nobody, well to see the comments are unsympathetic would be to put it mildly. I can never forgive the colleague who said to me "your family are not australians and are not in australia, so we don't care" - that was when i said I was worried I would never see my mum (in her mid 80s) again.

I now tend not to speak to anyone beyond essential work chat.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Not in my experience.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

It’s fine. Warblings from a few whingeing poms are irrelevant.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

For us Victorians, whilst Lockdown 2.0 grated from September, it gave some of us the sabbatical and rest we needed and showed we could WFH. It gave others time to retrain (from home) head back to work and was a bit of a tonic. When borders reopen there will be cash in the bank.

I am no fan of Scomo - not his politics necessarily -he's a buffoon, a lyer / sociopath, gaslighter and a photo-op idiot (all smirks, grins, thumbs and hi-vis) but most of the time it's BAU.

I think people forget we are on the edge of the world and having always enjoyed a bit of distance and security. So other countries got hit by the pandemic and it was easy for us in 2020 to look good and to form an eradication mentality (which I didn't think possible yet Dan did it).

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

sorry to hear that - I think you speak for parts of the QLD public service. It's unfortunate that such an interesting area and exciting job is full of trash. It happens for some reason - cultures like that do occur (I won't expand on it now). Other places, and for example, in the private sector would be different, Polly. In fact, you wouldn't get away with saying that in many places - it's practically illegal.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I am not a fan of Scomo for altering his stance based on what the voters in QLD and WA are brain washed by. Simple as that for me.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Surprising how many haven’t looked at his past…

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

How cryptic. I am sure you will enlighten us

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I'm not the biggest fan of Morrison but imagine if we had an Australia-hating socialist asshat like Albanese as PM?

Never forget that one of Albanese's biggest heroes is Jezza Corbyn!!!

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Interesting to read the varying degrees of perception. I do think, it comes down to the individual and possibly the state they live in - let's face it, the State Premiers have had a VERY different approach and rhetoric and I do think, that influences people.

I am part of a group full of Aussies/PRs/expats who somehow try to return to Australia during the pandemic and the overall sentiment is that the Australian mentality has changed. I guess, sometimes, you need to see certain things from a distance in order to grasp them. There are multiple stories of Aussies who feel that their nation has somehow betrayed them of the shared Australian values.

I came across this article today - I usually don't read news.com.au and the article is quite long and somehow unstructured - but I find it real interesting that even the Murdoch press is starting to pick up on that issue. The article mainly deals with the reduced flight caps but the comments of those people essentially confirm what I have been reading. https://www.news.com.au/travel/peopl...32f88a04844aa4

Just a few quotes:'They’re (stranded Aussies) also coming to terms with a deeply uncomfortable truth: that most of their fellow Australians don’t seem to care. The reduction in international arrivals is being imposed in the name of protecting Australians. But the people stuck overseas are Australians too, and they feel as though their own country has all too happily “abandoned” them. Many believe the government is using them as a convenient “scapegoat” for its own failures.'

Jason feels the 50 per cent cap reduction is “purely political”. He says it’s Mr Morrison’s way of appeasing a “fearful” population. “They see people arriving from overseas, Australian citizens, as a threat. It’s sad,” he says. “People just don’t care. Many say ‘you should have come home earlier’ or ‘you’re just bitter because your extended overseas holiday has been cut short’. Few realise exactly why we were there and the effort and planning required to come home.”

“I also have respect for the value of human life that Australia is protecting. Living here in the US with over 600,000 deaths, it is a sense of pride for what Australia has done,” she says. “However, quotes such as those from Daniel Andrews – ‘It is better to lock some people out than to lock everyone down,’ – are not in line with the Aussie mateship I know."

Following a previous interview with Sky News, Lex copped a backlash in the comments section, with other Australians telling him he’d “made my bed, now lie in it”. “Disgusting. This is the culture of Australia now, one that has chosen fear over mateship. Absolutely appalling,” he says. “The real story here is the change in Australian values, the irreparable damage to Australian culture, the very core of the Australian identity. “I’ve heard this pandemic referred to as ‘wartime’. Well, Australia has left its soldiers behind enemy lines.

“It’s a very alienating experience to see your own people have so little compassion in the face of these new measures, with no end in sight.” This is characteristic of my conversations with stranded Australians. Many feel the broader public has a misguided impression of them, as though they all decided to swan off on holiday and could have returned easily last year.

“In the six-plus years since I left, Australia has always felt like home, and thinking of it produced that warm, wholesome feeling inside,” he wrote. “That was the case until Scott Morrison’s announcement on Friday, July 2, where he announced a halving of the international arrival caps, in effect shutting the country further off from its own citizens scattered around the world.“I felt outcast. I felt discarded. I felt abandoned.”

An Aussie friend of mine said to me - before I left to Europe: "It's so sad - we all pulled together during the bushfires and the floods. And now we're turning against each other"
In a way, I think, she was right. I have never heard anybody say something like "well, why did you buy/build a house in a bushfire/flood-prone area?" . No, people were supporting each other, there was a lot of - you know - empathy.

Reading Polly's comments about the rhethoric within a government department is shocking - but then, it probably explains why the majority of Queenslanders feel it's ok to use the same sort of rhethoric. Same for McGowan and his people. And Dan seems to gladly sacrifice a few Aussies in order to prevent any more lockdowns (rather than admitting breaches and failures of infection control protocols). Gladys in NSW is the only one standing up against them and honestly, a breath of fresh air. It's unfortunate that Sydney has to deal with this nasty outbreak now but other than her Queensland counterpart, she has not been blaming someone else...

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I like the line in that article about leaving soldiers on the battle field. For me, I always thought Australia would be a country that would be most likely rally around its citizens, help and protect no matter what.

Inbred Australia led by Qld and WA with Vic puppetting reluctantly along have shown how insular they can be. Please don't put others in this bucket, and for that matter the many in WA and QLD who are disgusted at the actions of the premiers.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

To me, what was truly reprehensible, and truly incoherent about the federal government's response to the emerging Covid-19 epidemic, was the failure to consider non-commercial travel--personal movements--as remaining essential ones, for a high percentage of Australian citizens and PRs:
- Births
- Weddings
- Funerals

Even accepting cut-down numbers to be there, certain people just need to be allowed to show up. Don't tell them "no", tell them how they can get to "yes".

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

You're saying that you believe it should have been essential that people be allowed to travel for those events? Why?

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Because for most people, from most walks of life, whether religiously affiliated or not, these are critical life-cycle events -- birth, marriage, death -- that are celebrated and/or venerated in the company of others. With family at least, and often far wider than that.:angel:

(Edit: When my grandmother was dying, I booked a trip home to see her for one last time, and considered which of my family in Australia would come with us, as it seemed we had some time to do it all in some orderly way. And then suddenly she took a turn for the worse, and it was all guns blazing to get just me over there, sooner than expected, literally booking flights while in a taxi to the airport. Made it over just in time, and I was literally the last relative she recognised and got to say goodbye to, just before she passed. Worth every effort to get there, and every penny spent.)

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Exactly.
I live in fear every day now that my mum will start to decline in health and want me home. At present there is not a cat in hells chance of getting there. When your entire family, and everyone you care about, lives on the other side of the world, and you are not able to see any of them, life gets pretty lonely. Yes, I knew when I came here that it would take 24-36 hours to get home, and that was acceptable. What is less acceptable is having the rules change to make it 24-36 months to get there.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Sacked for fraud and theft. All the details are on the web. Probably more widely known to us Canberra residents…

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...d8ac5fd41abc40

Come on down Dan Andrews. A fly in the ointment for WA and QLD.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

And more than this, thinking upon it further, I truly think the feds have lost the plot, have indeed lost the whole idea of a citizen's true personal interests in a modern democracy threatened by a health crisis, when they consider purely commercial travel to serve Australian exporters to be a 'critical skills and sectors' exception for travel, but citizen repatriation not so much, and travel for critical family reasons not so much.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

You have a choice. Move to WA or QLD and vote them out.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

You only have to look at their priorities when granting exemptions to travel. Far more grants for business trips than for compassionate or personal (eg family migration out of Aus) reasons. Equally they talk of allowing skilled migrants on newly granted visas, temp skills visas, and international students all to be allowed a higher rate of entry than people returning for compassionate and personal reasons.
The ordinary person is at the back of the queue. Humanitarian reasons count for nothing with this government.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

No I think most of the anger now is directed towards Scomo.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Yes but why? I hear people say he screwed up the vaccine roll out, but I have never heard anyone give a decent reason without using hindsight.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Agree. Decisions were made on vaccines based on what was known at that time. Saying that, he was wrong to say that Australia was at the 'front of the queue' for vaccines when we weren't. He should have gotten every vaccine he could have got his hands on - damn the cost. It was known a while ago the mRNA were going to be a way forward and he should have immediately taken steps to get onshore manufacturing capability for them. We would be making them here by now. The same with quarantine facilities. We could have had 3-4 centres up and running that don't rely on hotels - instead we have one. Or they could have upgraded Howard Springs to 8k capacity and bring all arrivals through there. Unfortunately for him, many voters are sheeple and only remember the negatives when it comes to election time. His saving grace though is that Albanese is virtually unelectable - and rightly so

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

I would say people have short memories, look at Boris, he takes the credit for the UK vaccine rollout and people seem to have forgotten about all the other screw ups thats have cost lives.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Putting all his eggs in one basket?
New Zealand also has a low vaccination rate, but people don't attack Ardern in the same way.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Morrison is between a rock and a hard place on this. He's criticised for being slow on the vaccine rollout yet many are reluctant to get vaccinated

I guess his can be a tough gig at times but that's what he signed up for

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

Also he shouldn't have said "it wasn't a race". That was also wrong.

However

I am not sure creating a mRNA manufacturing capabilities is that straight forward. You need to partner with one of the pharmaceuticals. I believe we are doing that now with Moderna. Singapore is doing that with Pfizer. Both countries are projecting 2023 for mRNA manufacturing capability. Which is the reason why we went for the 2 options at the beginning in the Queensland University one and AstraZenca. Both had the ability to turn around local manufacturing very quickly - local mRNA manufacturing is a couple of years off. I think we are as far in the queue for the mRNA vaccines as we could possibly expect to be. I don't believe there was any justification for Australia to be ahead of the Europe or the USA on so many levels, especially given our mostly successful zeros policy. Obviously now with the Delta strain that has all changed but the crystal ball wasn't available last November when were all running around COVID free, borders up and for the most part, quarantine working.

Hotel Quarantine for 99.97% of the time is successful. I think its the reaction of premiers to any hotel quarantine leaks which is the problem, expect for the Melbourne worlds longest lockdown leak. Other than that, the major outbreaks have not come through hotel quarantine. Avalon they have no idea where it came from, the current Sydney one was from a driver transporting freight staff. I don't think there is much common sense justification for outback quarantine centres. But yes you are right, people are sheeple, and if Albanese can use this as a political weapon then so be it.

Speaking of sheeple, they keep bleating here in Sydney about non essential retail still being open or why can you exercise more than once a day or this one is a beauty "Melbourne had a very successful ultra hard lock why aren't we doing it here". (Melbourne had 800 deaths, hardly successful). The point is, the virus is not transmitting in non essential retail in Sydney - its transmitting in Supermarkets, GP's and Pharmacies - all essential or in people homes. I have never heard of anyone contracting Covid from exercising, being on the beach or playing golf. The sheeples are looking for the easy answers.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

There were multiple baskets. There are about 5 baskets. We just can't get up in the queue.

They will attack Adern when they get the inevitable delta outbreak. If this happens while vax rates are low, good luck to her

This is why it was a mistake for Morrison to say "Its not a race"

And when dickheads like Janette Young come on and say "I don't want 18 years olds dying from blood clots" that shit is a disgrace. She should be strung up for that.

Re: Has Australia changed during the pandemic?
 

There's a current Pfizer plant in Perth, that's closing in 2023/4 that has been proposed as a kung flu mRNA vaccine production facility. I was reading that a mRNA plant could be up and running in 6-9 months if everything is thrown at it, but 12 months is more realistic - so just about now if decisions had been made last year, but they weren't

Hotels are not quarantine facilities - end of, and the hotels where outbreaks occurred were older hotels with inadequate ventilation and AC systems. We have remote facilities in this country - immigration detention, army bases etc - that could easily and relatively cheaply be converted to quarantine camps - like Howard Spring has been. We build mining camps continuously here (I've been involved in designing them) and have the onshore capability and knowhow to do this quickly and efficiently if the money is there