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this reponse is right, if slightly off-topic, but who cares ;-) .

I've always said the move is about a choice, ie "we have the ability and chance to be better off with regard to this specific; and here, compared to where we were, it is pretty amazing", not "australia is perfect everywhere".

This is all I think alot of people are trying to say when they come over here.

What annoys me is the people who come crashing in with generalisations which seem to be a bit of a stir, and you came in yesterday on that other drug thread with 'balance' when it wasn't needed - having said that you're one of the few realists who I think are appreciated. You just seem overkeen to give 'balance' regardless of the way the analysis is going that's all ;-) Not everyone is slating only the UK - its often UK people talking about their experiences.

OFFTOPIC

Incidentally, again, slightly off topic, I've always maintained there is a degree of subtley in class in Australia which the UK currently does not maintain to the same extent.

I believe there is a class system in Australia but by and large there are aspects that are different, and they are very hard to even elaborate on on an internet forum because there will always be someone who misses, or disagrees, with the subtlety. I notice it here in Australia, but would never say it was classless. An example; I think Australian *atttitudes* are more pan-class than in the UK, and I mix with loads of blue collar workers here, the same might acuse me of being posh in the UK. The topic of 'wow you're educated mate' (in a friendly fashion) never comes up like it might have done back home.

My neighbours have parties where Telstra seniors do meet with the mower man.

It''s all bloody subtle, I reckon.

cheers

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Phoenixuk2oz

Agree. Although most people do it unwittingly every now and again.

What is a pain is when the same posters provide an emotional / negative story EVERY time, trying to point out how shit *a country* is at every opportunity and how stooopid people are for not noticing how shit *a country* is

I think people on this forum are educated enough to see what's wrong with *a country* without ramming it down their necks at EVERY available opportunity.

It's about balance: A mixture of "happy clappy" and "manic mania" posts are required to provide balance.

If any one poster provides posts without a mix of negatives and postitives....then chances are there's no balance and the poster loses credibility. Unfortunatley.

ozzieeagle

Totally agree badge, I really can meet Doctors etc in and out of work, have a beer with them, and refer to them as mate, without them or I batting an Eyelid. There is very little deferrence between the main bulk of people here.

I do beleive though, that quite a large proportion of people in Commission type areas, are more hopeless than their counterparts in council areas in England. I Don't understand this at all, Could be something as simple as British TV actually educating people in England. I do know The average ducking and diving type Millwall supporter, seems like a genius compared to some I've seen here. Push your average Millwall fan about his views on George Bush, and he might actually have one ! I doubt if the same could be said, about the Commission dwelling person in Heidelberg West.

ozzieeagle

double post dammit !

Merlot

Amen to that Phoenixuk2oz. Well said.

M

Phoenixuk2oz

Why thank you Merlot...amen to you too m8

Maybe I should be a Vicar...lol

What d'ya reckon Bixy?... D'ya rekon I'd get in

[Merlot....I think Bix thinks I'm too naughty ]

Merlot

Hey you can't beat a bit of sauce

You have hit the nail with the credability bit, like in life you have to earn respect too.

M

Phoenixuk2oz

And Bix has plenty of that, naughty lion

louise4

Good God woman, have you no sense of humour at all.

if you are so defensive about the spelling of your name, i wonder how you would react to living down the road from people who do no respect anything of yours.
No! not all asyylum seekers are law breaking.
No! not all illegal immigrants are law breaking.
Yes, being there are just more british yobs than assylum seekers and illegals in this country, a lot of the trouble comes from kids with nothing better to do and have no respect for anything or anyone.
But, how annoyed would you be if your area, your facilities and the way you live your life was affected i.e not feeling safe to walk alone at night. in some cases this is no more than the fear of crime generally, but should you be unlucky enough to live in an area which has taken in and are housing shed loads (compared to overall population in the first place) of assylum seekers and illegals you would be fearful. your overall way of life would be changed overnight. lets, for a moment, look at it from a new point of view.
lets say there is a town where pepole live day to day, nothing particularly fascinating about it at all. all of a sudden people from different nationalities start arriving, don't speak the language and hang around all day because they have nothing to do (suggestions to combat this on another of my posting, which hardly anybody has picked up on), you have to walk past everyday with your children to get to school or just to get to the bus stop. we have had this problem with british yobs as well. everybody agreed it was intimidating, but because this was not aimed at another race, nationality it is not deemed unfit to feel this way. can you honestly say nochola (there you go, happy now) that you would not feel in the slightest bit intimidated by them. that you would walk up to them and try to converse with them. that you would not get fed up with it. if you wouldn't feel anything except acceptance then maybe you are a better person then those calling from the anti side of this debate. obviously if you would have no problem with the local park being taken up by bored men standing around all day then you have the compasion of mother theresa.

i have given information on my background, the area where i came from and why i have my opinion. yes, did suggest that maybe we come from different backgrounds. It would be interesting to know some of your background and life now (asked in friendly and cutreous tones) it would be interesting to compare to see if we disagree because of how and where we grew up, work, live.

Yes a lot of doctors, nurses, auxilairies come from abroad, has anybody here said anything against migrants who live work and pay taxes. i think not. anybody and i mean anybody working in education or nhs deserves a medal.
i cannot see the reason you have a problem when emotional issues are raised. just because they are emotional doesn't mean they are less political.
i have never said that this county is sh*t, it's not, it has just lost its way.

Nichola i haven't challenged your fact and figures because i dont see the point. you get you info from one place and i another, that would be taking on the newspapers and governments jobs.
we obviously see money used in different lights. all that money, and yes it is a lot of money could be used in much needed ways. research for one and mental health which, i believe gets the lowest funding, leading to care in the community which even the medical proffesion has a problem with.

it could even pay for (i say through gritted teeth) finding solutions to the problem with young louts who willfully cause trouble.what this would be i have no idea i am not a social worker, judge or policeman, who i am sure would be able to give many areas which could be improved upon. you may say why would we give money to those who have had all the oppertunities that the uk can give them whilst excluding people from assylum or illegal entry backgrounds when they have risked their lives to get here. because, they are our problem, no one else's. if we do not challenge the way our youth is going what is the future, which is, funnily enough my origional question.

Actually nichola, i told you you had support before your 'fast and figures' input. you were the one saying it was one sided to the anti group. but, it did spur a responce so good on ya.
also nichola my life is not sad. it is very happy indeed. you say i have made assumptions, well, that one takes the biscuit. just because i am not happy with the way the uk is going does not mean i sit hear hanging my head. i have a charmed life compared to some. but that is not my fault.

louise


just for nichola. i do not want to go into another issue at all. this question is asked purely out of wonder and has no other hidden agenda as to raising other beliefs or oppinion (this one is enough don't you think). did not want to pm you, i have no idea how it would be taken.
could you please clarify for me when you said about the newspaper debating issues on illegals & assylums, at the end you put paedophilia. just out of curiosity, just to help me see where you are coming from could you answer that one. you can pm if you like, i know how things are picked up on and do not want to confuse the issues on this thread. thanking you louise.

Phoenixuk2oz

Louise....a biiiig hint coming up....

Please address your posts to the relevant person/people or else not sure who you are referring to

Don't forget there are more people on here than you and GG

I thought you meant me then

....er actually you might have

louise4

sorry pheonixuk2oz, didn't mean to confuse you , it gets abit confusing. especially as i am chasing a 1 yr old and stopping her from turning off the comp.

i was actually replying to you post on uk being sh*t. just wanted to say that i have never voiced that oppinion. i hope i can i am not happy with the way things are going without being seen as someone who hates this country. i have after all, gone and come again.

louise

louise4

pheonixuk2oz
sending you karma for making you confused.

louise

louise4

or maybe i won't. just got Too much karma given out. will send it tomoz
louise

Phoenixuk2oz

It's OK Louise....I understand. I was also trying to diffuse the situation[crap at this aren't I ]

Louise/Nichola

Can I just say.....if I may .....that both you ladies seem really intelligent, logical and passionate people. You have both given excellent "arguments" for both cases and it's clear as to which camp it is you are each in. However in your quests to change each others view, you are actually now going over old ground....and perhaps this is a case of agreeing to disagree?

It would be a great shame if you guys fell out as you are both obviously adept at debating however this topic seems to have come to a natural end and the intelligent debate may be spoilt if it carries on...and that would be a shame.

It's at this point that usually the Expat popcorn comes out..... and you may find yourselves being unwittingly "egged on" to provide ringside entertainment.....and that wouldn't be fair on either of you...[us bloody Expats love a good fight...it's like our next best thing to Coronation street ]

I hope you and GG don't mind me saying this. Please don't shoot the messenger...but I happen to think this is worth salvaging. I'm trying to be honest and upfront ...but in typical Yorkshire style I may not be portraying this very well....so please don't shoot the messenger . I can butt out and let you get on with it whilst we all watch. However I'm sure you guys wouldn't want that....would you

Thank you for listening...

<Phoenix shuts gob.....walks slowly backwards towards the door...... and disappears sheepish like >

Merlot

I have to agree with Phoenixuk2oz on this as earlier in the thread I was diplomatically trying to say this too, not against anyone having a good old fashioned debate on the site - I am the Queen of some agruements on here at times, in fact every now and again it is good for the soul. But I have found sometimes it gets me nowhere but stressed.

My concern too was those that come on and then a side taking thing happens, they we miss the point of what we are trying to debate.

I hope that GG & Louise are able to agree to disagree on this one as both of you add great value to the Forum.

Best wishes and karma thoughts
M