ohippy

We have just had parents evening at my childrens' school here in the UK to be told that neither of them write joined up and my 6 year old must start and they have a lot of concerns over my 8 year old who doesn't write joined up yet (her writing is so much neater when she doesn't!).

Baring in mind that neither my husband nor I write joined up except for the odd couple of letters and that we don't place a lot of importance on this (to which the teachers' and I had a nice long debate !), I wondered if Oz teachers were as insistent on this as the UK ones seem to be (or is it just the school my kids go to ?)

YFitz

Hi there
I'm a primary teacher in the UK so can't comment on Aus teaching but here's my thoughts anyway- hope this helps.
At 6, children are usually beginning to learn to join up- they're usually keen to try this as they view it as "grown up writing". More often than not they will happily write their name or something short like a birthday card but if it's a longer a piece of writing they are concentrating so much on the content of their writing along with spelling and punctuation that they revert back to their usual style. This is completely normal as joined writing is much slower and tedious for them. By 8 I would expect the average child to be making an effort to join up most of the time. There have been studies that suggest spelling is improved if joined writing is taught from an early age- the idea is that some spelling patterns eg "ing", or "ought" is easier to learn as a continuous written "shape" rather than a list of separate letters. In my experience I'd say I agree with this. Most children and adults will also find that they will be able to write quicker when they can join up competently.
It sounds like the teacher was having a go at you because your children won't join up which is a bit off. Why not go back to the school and say that you are willing to support their efforts but that you need guidance rather than being made to feel it's your fault. Ask them for letter formation and handwriting worksheets so your children can get extra practise at home- 5 minutes a day can make a huge difference. If they are reluctant give them nice pens to use- most chilren love using coloured gel ink pens or the Berol handwriting pens. As I said I don't know the Aus take on handwriting but I imagine it would be taught and expected at some point during their schooling. I hope this helps and that I haven't come across as some kind of school mam. I have a 6 year old too so know what you're feeling
Cheers
Yvonne

Ushas

Now I am an Oz teacher and have to say I actually disagree with some of the previous posts points. I also teach in a UK school and have done for the previous 5 years. I have no issue with teaching children 'joined up' writing (or cursive). But I would never enforce it until later on in about year 4. As an Independent school we have a strict policy on handwriting and I do tend to go against it at times. Yes for some children cursive is easy and can be a great precursor to enhancing their spelling abilities. However, too many children have been pushed into cursive when they are clearly not ready to do so and their writing becomes illegible scrawl. An excuse in fact to say 'oh yeah that's what I put it is that letter...' when in fact they have great difficulty spelling correctly. It is too often used as a 'coping' tool to get away with an inability to spell at all. In many cases I have to force my children to print so that their work is neat, legible and easily corrected.
This does not mean that I don't teach cursive I do. But I'd rather leave it until children have had some chance to learn the correct formation of individual letters in the first place. As many children don't begin their writing experiences until reception year they haven't had enough time to develop a great deal of fluency in their letter formation by the time they turn 6.
In Australia they don't begin cursive until year 3. That's the year they turn 8.
However, I do strongly agree with the previous post on how to handle the situation with the teacher. Some excellent advice.

teach

I agree with Ushas on this one.Children need the chance to learn the correct formation of individual letters first. In my school Y2 children are taught cursive foundation lower case letters but use standard upper case letters. By the end of Y2 they should all be joining words such as cat, bat, mat etc. I feel they are far too young for this. When they come up to me in Y3 I have to recap on all lower case letters and introduce foundation cursive upper case letters. During the first half term I don't teach any literacy as such, my dedicated literacy hour is spent teaching the children how to join up. Any writing I do in the first half term is printed but using the foundation cursive letters, after half term I have to join everything. I totally disagree with this but it is school policy that all children will be taught this way of handwriting. It is hoped that every child in Y3 will be able to join by Christmas, some get it but most don't. I really feel that the content of the work they are doing should be more important than the way it is written. We are going to be inspected soon and I think the first thing they will pick up on is the fact that Y3 children have only a small amount of work in their books and very little of that is completed as the children spend all their time trying to get the handwriting correct. I won't go into all the other things i disagree with, all I will say is that I can't wait to get out of there. Good luck when you approach the school.
Sarah

ohippy

Thanks for your replies.

I must admit, the spelling angle hasn't been explained to me before and I can see that. With my eldest, she struggles a lot as it wasn't picked up that she didn't hold a pen correctly until I noticed in year 2 when I was helping her with her appalling handwriting - so the habit was there and that's been very difficult to break. We've tried all sorts of aids but, unless she concentrates really hard, she reverts back so she never gets much down on paper ! Luckily her new teacher this year says he's going to spend some one to one time with her to help her which is great as, up to now, they've asked me to concentrate on helping her. Now I know that parent help is needed, but I have two children with weekly spellings to learn, daily reading to do and weekly maths sheets to complete which is hard enough as I work full time without having to do handwriting practise as well.

I know a lot of people say that Oz schools don't put so much pressure on the kids at such a young age and, it would be great if this were true as, with all this homework, drama and swimming lessons and youth group, they're knackered come the end of the week !!

Loopy

When my son started in Year 3 in Perth he was already doing "running writing" as they call it in his school. His teacher was insistent that he stopped and went back to printing as his style wasn't the same as theirs. Now in Year 4 he is having to learn joined up writing once again. At the time I was quite cross as it was just another change he had to cope with, but he's had time to learn the different formation of the letters now ready for running writing.

I am not going to worry unduly about it as how much writing do we all do these days? My writing is terrible so I thank good ness for computers!

Loopy

ABCDiamond

Talking about handwriting styles, be aware that different styles of handwriting are taught in different States here.

I came across this article from 1989 But in actual fact, when we moved from NSW to QLD in 2003, my daughter had to re-learn the QLD style of writing.
This link http://www.nh.com.au/ gives some font examples, but I still can't see what the real difference is !!

tonyk38

I was put in remedial classes in Primary school because my handwriting was so bad. It still is. I'm left-handed and I still resent to this day being made to do joined up writing that only a right handed person could actually realistically do with any competence. Maybe things have changed these days I don't know.

I might add however, that I qualified as an English teacher a few years back, and I speak four languages. I also have a degree and I'm training to be a nurse. So bad handwriting is clearly not linked to intelligence and doesn't necessarily stop you from getting on.

podgypossum

Judging by the abominal writing styles of most doctors, lawyers and other fellow professionals, i wouldnt worry too much!!!!

CasG

I'm impressed, the things you learn about someone when you are not PMing them!
Cas x

podgypossum

i'm a cackhander too

ladysurrey

I don't know if it depends on the school or education authority but both mine when they started school in the UK were taught joined up writing right from day one. I was rather amazed at this my 9 year old has coped fine even though she is left handed they think she has beautiful script my 6 year old has struggled with every aspect of education other than playtime and art mainly due to an on going hearing problem which means she has a short attention span.

gazzer

I still don't understand the link with joined up and learning. As a dyslexic, you can ask me to write is joined up and maybe your understand but when I come to read my own writing you forget it. Same on the whiteboard may i add you teachers out there. then there's this wonderful font called Times Roman (staple diet of newspapers/books) which on white just jumps all over the place.

My son kindly read the post for me and dictated this reply.

Why persecute us all (including dyslexics) give us a laptop each and get away from this idea that joined up is important anyway. Returning to FE in my 30's (teaching degree) i wasn't allowed to present very much with pen and paper anyhow. In the exam room non joined up still got me my Hons and can still write as fast using non joined up as joined up.

Whoever came up with the arguement that joined up helps with spelling baffles me, its reading that teaches you to spell and most of it is printed text - WHICH AIN'T JOINED UP.

to all those suffering out there, parents and kids alike - ignore them and don't even bother trying to convince the "experts" of any other way. It as a load a bull - they can't even get the KS3 English papers out on time or even the results on time either. then again as sample paper (on QCA web site) had a spelling mistake in one of the questions on Macbeth. The word was "the" of all things. I wonder the mistake was because it was joined up in the first place - or because one of a hundred experts didn't bother to proof read it!!

Got that off my chest.

G

Phoenixuk2oz

I have to agree with PP and tonyk38

I have a Masters in Business and am able to interpret / translate and write a second language.... yet my handwriting is terrible. My dog could write better

My spelling is no worse / no better than people who I've met who have lovely handwriting

What does it matter for goodness sake.

Sometimes emphasis in schools re handwriting makes for a very, very unhappy child, hence some children feeling "hounded" by the school and teachers because of it. Fair enough, children should be encouraged to write correctly however if they feel uncomfortable with this style then surely their individual style and content is more important

As a parent I would ask myself if joined up writing is paramount to my child performing well in life? If the answer is no....then I'd say don't worry too much about it

gazzer

Phoenixuk2oz

Too right Phoenix

Maybe someone one day will explain why it so bloody important to write joined up anyway. Non received to date no matter how much expert opinon i have read.

Gaz