finally - the final hearing
 

We are due to have the final hearing set for our applications for RFJO, and other child related orders, in the next week:eek:

In a moment of complete madness we have decided to represent ourselves:blink:

Can anyone offer any assistance, ie: what questions did your solicitor ask the absent parents and what questions were you asked???:unsure::huh:

Did anyone get the RFJO without going to a final hearing on the basis of the cafcass report and the absent parent still opposing???

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Can't help you with the court questions just wanted to wish you good luck :thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Ta muchly,

I shall need a rather large glass of something largly alcholic, I should think by the time its over, probably could do with one before hand, but it might just give the wrong impression;)

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Best advice is to get legal representation..

It may be a little late, but surely this is just too important to risk DIY?

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Can't offer any advice but just wanted to wish you lots of luck :)

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

I know what you mean but we have already in the last 7 years spent more than 20k on legal representation on family matters only for the others not to turn up or to bugger off and not see the kids anyway!!!! all part of oour statement.

I have done it before for contact issues and was commended by the judge for putting forward a professional case and the order was made according to my recommendations. This time we also have cafacss supporting us.

We know what questions we will ask and will probably be asked of us it was realy an enquiry of how other peoples final hearings went.

but ta for your advice:thumbup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

thanks, hopefully we won't need it, but you never know if the judge has abarny with his Mrs:eek: he might be in a bad mood:curse:


thanks

eve

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Hi Eve,
I had a barrister and my solicitor representing me in civil court.........I thought it was too risky to attempt to represent myself.
The cafcass report was read in detail by the Judge.......and then he asked me to take the stand and swear on oath etc.
He asked me several questions about why we wanted to emigrate to Australia, how far advanced through the visa process we were, how much £ we had spent, what implications would I suffer if RFTJ wasn't granted, did my hubby have good job prospects, (showed him a letter from my migration agent stating our chances of getting the PR visa were very high and that my hubby's skill was highly sought after in Oz), when we were hoping to actually move, our financial situation, how would we cope without family in Oz etc.
Then my barrister questioned me about how the children felt about emigrating, and how would they be emotionally affected if we couldn't go. He asked what type of visa we were applying for and how the visa process worked.........so the Judge could see how hard we had worked to get to this point and what opportunities we could achieve in Oz.
My ex refused to attend the final hearing so the Judge just grilled me.......then he pulled my hubby in (who had been waiting outside the court room) and made him take the stand......asking him almost the exact same questions!!!!!! Luckily my hubby knew everything and answered all questions.
He had to cover every aspect to make his final decision.......and he went off for 45 minutes to make it :blink:
If you want any further info just ask hun,
Good luck with court........try to stay positive as I believe that because I had researched everything I wasn't baffled on the stand.
The Judge realised we were genuine people just wanting to start a new life in Oz and not going to 'get away' from my ex.
Beth x x :wub:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks for you reply its was realy helpful, i shall spend some time this weekend getting all our paperwork in order so that I have all receipts regarding the visa to hand, I think pretty much the questions you were asked by the judge we have already addressed in our statement so will just make sure we re-read that before we go in so all is fresh in our minds, we like you are doing this for genuine reasons and not to get away from other parents (would be ridiculous anyhow bearing in mind they dont see kids and havn't for years)

The cafcass officer has already told us that other parents wont stand in our way if the children really want to go, but sometimes they will say anything in front of cafcass, just to look good, but if it is true then we might be able to get a Stat Dec before the final hearing.

My ex still opposing the childrens name change but I dont realy see that as a problem either as cafcass will report that the children have a clear sence of their birth names and parentage, and after all we only askig to add in my married name so that we all have a part of our surnames in common, haven't asked for birth name to be removed.

I, knowing the ex and the OH ex very well, dont expect them to turn up for a final hearing as my ex has no legal representation and has not turned up for any other court hearings. The OH ex didn't turn up for last final hearing re contact so dont expect her to turn up this time if the cafcass report is in our favor.

We have everything crossed and have oodles of paperwork re research etc.

Thanks again, will let you know how it goes

eve x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

My court bundle statements had all these questions in already......but the Judge pretty much re-questioned me on almost everything in the statement.
We also had several other court hearings prior to the final hearing......and we also applied to change my daughter's surname to my married surname. Cafcass questioned my daughter about her parentage and what surname she would prefer to be known as etc etc.
The Judge did allow the change of surname eventually as my daughter had personally requested this to the Cafcass Officer, so we then went to our solicitor's and had a Change Of Name Deed drawn up......although her Birth Certificate name couldn't be changed.
My hubby applied to the court to have some form of PR for my daughter and the Judge ordered a Residency Order in both our names......so he now has a Legal Responsibility for her.
We also applied to stop a previous contact order.......which again, after several Cafcass interviews, we managed to change to In-direct contact only.
The Final Hearing seemed to be the most intense as everything revolved around the outcome!!!!!
Just re-read through your statements before you go to Court.....so it's all fresh in your head. Should your ex turn up.....if you have no-one to represent you in Court....then you may question your ex on the stand.....and vice versa!!!
Be prepared to answer any question in detail......the more confident you sound the better.
Good luck, will be thinking of you,
Beth x x :wub:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

All we can do is our best and I think we are both intelligent and more than capable of answering the questions, its just a question of keeping your cool and trying to remain confident, I think I am more nervous about having to ask questions rather than answer them!

We have also asked for discharge of contact orders, but have agreed with cafcass that they should only be temporarily dischared upon migration and re-instated without further court action should we return to the UK before the youngest is 18. Cafcass are concerned that none of the children have any desire to see their other parents and grandparents and therfore should not be forced into doing so, they have suggested that they current orders be amended so the children have a greater say over contact, the school has said and will be quoted in the cafcass report that any contact with the absent parent would be detremental to continued progress, of course that relates to only one of the Children but importantly to the only child whose absent parent is likely to turn up.

Looks like the CSA Enforcement and private baliffs might be at the court next week as they have a liability order for the other absent parent and want to issue criminal proceedings!

Like I say I did represent myself once before but was just for contact which I wasn't exactly opposing anyway, grandparents applied for contact with only two of their three grandchildren!!!!! I was questioned by Judge and their solicitor which was extremely nervewracking but the Judge made an order by my consent for all three children as I had requested.

This of course is a totally different ball game and the judge may defer the case for a final hearing, if it looks like the ex and Oh ex will turn up and fight then I think we will have to instruct a solicitor, hopefully use the same one we used to get residency for OH son as she knows us well and the previous cases well.

Well the OH has just come in the room and tutted at me as I am always saying he spends too much time on the Computer:p and there I am not even dressed yet, tapping furiously away at the keys:ohmy:

Of to get dressed and do some more DIY:eek: does it never end.

eve xx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

LOL......go and get dressed woman!!!!! :eek:

I'm sure everything will go well in Court......seems you have covered most things already :thumbup:

Hope the bailiffs turn up.......now that would look good for your case!!!! :thumbsup:

Keep me updated please,
Beth x x :wub:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Still not dressed I'm afraid:( found another thread about farting!

Soooooo wish the baliffs do turn up just to wipe the smug little smile off his face:thumbsup: that would make me smile inside;)

eve xx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

LOL :rofl:

Keep smiling hun........hopefully you'll be celebrating this time next week!!!! :thumbsup:
Beth x x :wub:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

got the Cafcass report and it recommendsd RMJO



half way there!!!


eve

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Got everything crossed for you!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Well done on getting the Cafcass folks to understand your viewpoint - it's very unusual for the judge to go against what they say :D

Keeping everything crossed here for you too - you've no idea how much help reading these threads are to myself & probably to others in the same situation also :)

Any idea when the hearing is yet?

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

FANTASTIC NEWS EVE!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
The Judge usually goes with the recommendations made in the Cafcass Officer's report........so it's looking good for you now hun :thumbsup:
Really pleased for you...........will be thinking of you in Court :thumbup:
Beth x x :wub:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks :thumbup:

Yeh, the next or second hearing is on thursday and we dont expect one of the Ex's to turn up and the ex MIL is even less likely to turn up, the other ex may turn up, depends what mood she's in!:curse:

Any thing could happen, if no one turns up then we will ask for an uncontested final hearing, there and then.

If one or the other turns up we will ask for a final hearing at next available date which will can take anything up to about 6 weeks, although it is the family courts quiet time of year!

However one ex and one ex MIL still havn't filed statements:blink:, ordered 12weeks ago, but then they always did think they were a law unto themselves:p so if they are going to seriously appose our application then we will ask that they only be given one/two more weeks to file.

so at most we hope we are only a few weeks away which will be a total of about 5 months from start of application to finish.

Incidently Cafcass have only recommended indirect contact!:huh: which even we were surprised at, good job we didnt offer any return visits for contact as a sweetener as it looks like it wont be neccessary:)

We accepted an offer on our house today after only three weeks on the market, so someones looking after us at the moment:D or just might be we aren't the wicked, brainwashing, spiteful people we have been made out to be and the Karma, what goes around comes around, is finally happening for us:thumbsup:

will keep you all posted

Eve xxxxx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks I expect I will be quaking in my boots:unsure::unsure::unsure: but wont let them see that;) will be holding my head high knowing that we are good parents and this is the right thing for us to do.

eve xxx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thats a hell of a good start :thumbsup:

Be prepared to be asked about schools, lifestyle for the kids etc (you may not be asked but looks good if you have answers prepared just in case).

If the others haven't fiiled their statements, then they've lost their opportunity to have their say really. Having said that OH's ex had a habit of missing her filing date then filing literaaly a couple of days before the hearing, so be aware of that one!

Very best of luck, you're probably more than half way there now :thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Good luck Eve. Congrats on the house offer... sounds like it's all just coming together for you at the right time... :)

Remember, that judge is still just a bloke, who wears undies like we all do, so don't be too nervous. And you'll be ok. Beth's advice is bang on.... you'll be fine.

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks for that:ohmy:, now all i will be able to think about is the Judges Undies:eek: and if they are anything like mine:eek: I might just get a fit of the giggles:lol:

eve x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

:curse::curse::curse:

That feels better. :p

Ok well it wasn't sorted out today as we had hoped, eve's ex didn't turn up but mine did. Her solicitor is an absolute w**K**. They are trying to use the fact that eve has never been to Australia, they don't know how much money we have to support ourselves???? (they are in for a shock there 5 years ago we had two houses now we have one that we have just accepted an offer on :rofl:) they are just "dolites" scroungers of society, waiting for their next dole cheque.....glad I got that off my chest:D and they think the Caf Cass report is wrong :rofl:

So we have to go to an all day full hearing now, and we are going to have to get legal representation this time because I think she will have a barrister because she can with legal aid :curse::curse:.

I was really hoping to get it sorted today because my job come to an end at the end of August... I have been offered a new position but they want me to sign a years contract :(

I think I will need a bottle or two tonight, I just hope this is all worth it.

I'm sure eve will come on later and explain better than I do

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

ARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHH

Who do they think they are? these absent parents who don't see their kids for years, pay no maintenance, have no job, dont go to parents evenings, slap their kids about, have them taken away, then they got the nerve to oppose us moving with the OH Son who will be almost 15 when we intend to go.

As Edie says the OH's ex's solicitor is a slimey slippery BANKER!;) he picked up the following

says cafcass have not done a proper report because she has not fully considered the welfare checklist, duh! she hasn't titled each item on the checklist but all of it has been covered, even a monkey can work that out, but apparently not all solicitors, also says that she hasn't addressed the risk and safety aspects of such a move, well she has and has stated that she doesn't think there are any.

Then he wittles on about the fact that none of the children have been to OZ so how can they know what it is like, and that I have not been to OZ so how can I know what it is like:blink: think I am old enough to make that choice without their assistance/interference and that we have said that it would be strange moving to a new country:ohmy: well its not going to feel like a normal day in the life of edie and eve 209 now is it:eek:

Now we have been given 7 days to provide the OH ex with copies of our bank statements, mortgage statements, and savings bonds, we can blank out the account numbers but I think it is an infringement of our civil rights to have our personal details made available in this way. The judge would not entertain confirming our solvency to them instead. so will have to phone bank/building society and put passwords on everything. But like Edie says I think they are in for a shock we are planning on making £20k available for the which would see us through two years if we didnt get jobs, unlikely I think. and then we plan to invest more than 100k for a deposit for a house one day, Ummmm do we think that will be enough:blink:

Then the t****r starts banging on about the fact that Edie has no job to go to, well he aint got no job here after august and probably got more chance over there as his profession on the skills shortage list.

What a complete waste of tax payers money, this lazy good for nothing so called mother has subjected her child to years of neglect and good old slappings, never done a full days work in her life and is fast approaching her late 30's, the SS recommended that she have two hours per month if the OH son wanted it, so even is he did want to see her which he certainlt does not this would equate to a total of 36 hours up until he is 16, well we could just get that over and done with this weekend:eek:

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH I am a tad MAD
shame she didn't put this much energy into actually being a good mum!!!!!!!

Oh yeh and the daft man said that she was extremely concerned that we did not have any family or friends in Oz for support or help if anything untoward should happen!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? maybe a should start a thread who wants to be our friends in brisbane? ;)

Oh I think I got most of it off my chest now!

Now I going to crack open a nice bottle of australian white with the OH and forget she exists for a wee while;):p or do you think I should ask her if thats OK first!

Help me before I go insane with frustration, still think we will get the RFJO just got to get the gloves off now to get it:sneaky:

eve xx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Right, first off you contact some agencies in Brisbane, explain the situation to them and ask them to review edie's cv & give you an idea of employment prospects and salary expectations on an email for you to take with you to court.

Then you go to www.ato.gov.au and complete the simple tax calculator which will give the judge an idea of edie's takehome pay based on the salary guide you've been given.

Then you go to www.realestate.com.au and print off some properties that are in your price range for the take home that you have got. You also print off some mortgage calculator guides which show how much mortgage you can get, and print off some homes within your price range to buy.

Don't blank out the account numbers from your statements, cut them out - that way you know that they are safe, but still get the passwords put on your accounts. If they ask why, just tell them that its personal data protection.

The banker is clutching at straws - if she bitch would get 36 hours contact at 2 hours a month I'm guessing he's around 14 now, and thats certainly old enough for cafcass to take his view into account.

We'll be your friends in Brisbane :D God knows we appreciate what you're going through :wub:

Oh, but first, foremost and most important of all, you go and get that bottle open!

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Tell it to me straight, girl!

Am now sat infront of laptop with the all important bottle of wine! and straw, hic!

Some good advice there, have done some of it but i'll definately follow the rest of your advice.

I am sure you are right he just clutching at straws, getting desperate and thinks he and his bitch can bully us, but I gonna get our BIG BAD SOLICITOR on the case and then we'll see how big his balls are:lol:

take care my new friend

eve x:wub:x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Sorry! I get rather blunt when I'm wound up, and exes like that reeeeallly wind me up :curse:

When they reach the point of being pedantic about whether the cafcass report follows each point and spells it out as such, they're getting desperate. Doesn't make it any less frustrating for you though.

Get your solicitor on them, and have those balls fried for breakfast on the barbie :lol:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Hi Eve,
Great advice from Nikil :thumbsup::thumbsup:
The Judge asked me if we knew anyone in Oz for support........and I told him we have several friends from this forum who keep me regularly updated on the job vaccancies for hubby, rental situations, school activities and just general day-to-day news. Also mentioned how most of them were originally from UK and were more than happy to assist us on our arrival in any way they could. He was more than happy with this.
I think asking to see your financial situation is a bit below the belt though. Could you get your bank manager to just write a quick letter on headed paper confirming your current balance instead? I'm sure this would be acceptable by the Judge and shut the ex's up!!!!
None of us have been to Oz before........so we had to say how much research we had done over the years, on the internet for example, and had answered all of our initial queries by joining this forum and talking to real people who already live in Oz.
I also explained that the decision to emigrate was made as a family and all of the children were involved from the very beginning........and we had attended several UK meet ups to meet other families emigrating to Oz. This made the children feel part of the process and realise there are other children who are going to have to make new friends and attend new schools in Oz. This helped them tremendously to understand the emotions connected with the big move.
I also had a full day for the final hearing........but was only in there for the morning session in the end!!!
I was in a bit of a panic on the day of court.......as my solicitor had never done a RFTJ case before :eek: so I had to do all of the researching to write my court statements out for the Judge. She just got her secretary to print the pages on her headed paper!!!!
Also my Barrister had only ever done one RFTJ case before mine.......he was acting for the father to prevent a child from emigrating......and won :eek:
So all in all......I had my doubts on the day. But the Judge went with the Cafcass report and everything went in my favour.
The Judge will have to be 100% sure that he has covered all bases regarding the childrens' welfare, educational needs, medical requirements (if any), emotional needs, etc etc......so if it means another day in court, so be it. The Judge just doesn't want the other party to be in a position to appeal his decison....so is completely covering every aspect he can to prevent this.
Good luck hun......and stay strong,
Your other friend.....LOL
Beth x x :wub:
Get your migration agent to write you a letter stating your chances of getting your visa, job prospects in Oz, and how far advanced through the visa process you already are......Judge certainly couldn't argue with these facts when he read my letter.

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks Beth, some more realy good info and advice, looks like I wll be busy next week!!!!

We have some friends in Albany creek No' 3 and 4!!!!! and think we will ask the schools around that area about enrolling our kids in paticular eldest who has learning probs, as thats another area they are picking about, we have had his school state in the cafcass report that we are excellent parents and have excellent understanding of his special needs and hey have no doubts that we could provide for all his educational needs, but she is trying to insist that the have him enrolled before she will allow him to move.

Thank you for being my other friend:wub: and the sound advice you have been giving me.

eve xx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

I have been in touch with a TV researcher and she wants some info on the family court system, I have given her the low down on our experiences oer the last 8 years and she wants to speak to us, so will be speaking to her on the telephone today, It sounds like we may be able to get some free legal advice through this so will keep you all posted

eve x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Hi there eve :)

Another friend lining up for you here, so don't worry, you will be able to tell the judge all about how you regularly talk with other mothers in the same situation as yourself, that you ave a realistic idea of the challenges ahead of you all & that you have plenty of support with the move :)

Can't really add anything to Nik's & Beth's great advice & I'll certainly be following that too, when my turn comes, but wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you & wishing you all the very best - I'm certain you'll get the outcome you deserve :thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

I hope the judge will see that we can socialise and make new freinds and that they don't have to be in the flesh particulary in these modern times, I feel that I shall probably speak to family and freinds more often back in the UK as the Skype is so easy to use, the OH has the kids using it already, even my technophobic mum has asked the OH to but her a laptop with buit in web cam:eek: the fun will start then, its taken her 5 years to get the hang of texting:D

Thanks again, I hope we will be able to help people in the future too.

eve x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Well time has really flown by and the court case is next week, it seems like everything is in the balance on this one day :blink:

I have two weeks left at my job so I hope everything goes smoothly. We do have a CO though

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Wishing you loads of luck with court next week Eddie & Eve:thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Eve , just found this thread, have you had the court case, how did it go, I was in touch with you a while ago and boy have you had a lot on your plates, dont want appear nosey but would love to hear if things worked out for you, and if you havent had the court case yet then - sending you loads and loads of best wishes, positive vibes, hugs and all my fingers and toes crossed :thumbsup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Hiya,

Yeh we've had a little going on! We are in court this coming week and we have had to file further meds for our son, which should get to Oz on Friday. So hopefully in the next couple of weeks we will have everything in place for the Visa, which will be good as we have a c/o now as well.

We hope our house sale will be rescued this week too as our buyers got cold feet due to the surveyor scaring the pants of them:eek: we have had builders, roofers, electricians in just to prove the house is sound!

thanks for all your kind wishes, we will definately keep you posted, was only saying to the OH I hadn't seen you on here in a while, all ok?

Eve x

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Hi Eve,

Yeah things are going ok, just need it to be happening now instead of all the waiting.

We havent got anyone to rent house yet but in time hopefully. Thought we had a rental sorted out because a really nice lady pmd me saying she had house in quinns rock available for rent for 3 months, but my sister in law went to look at where it was and because I dont drive it was too far out for me and for me to get our little boy to school in Currambine, Shame because it sounded just right for us and was a good price.

I havent been on for a little while bacause I think it get quite obsessive sometimes so I had a little break from it.

I hope all goes well in court, keep your chin up, I know a lot of people on this forum are routing for you. Will keep in touch.xxx

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Just sending best wishes for the upcoming week it will be fine xxxx:thumbup:

Re: finally - the final hearing
 

Thanks everyone or the support, this will be a stressfull week waiting for the med to get to Oz and going to court, but hey these things are sent to try us:blink:

We are both feeling like crap at the mo, it just feels like the end of the world is nigh:unsure: even a night out last night, didn't help much, just gave me a bloody sore head today!

I'm so worried about how the med and court is going to pan out, Hopefully we are worrying for nothing, then there's the house:ohmy: no word yet from the EA so no news is good news I suppose.

Sorry to bore you all with my depressing shite :(

Eve x