diddy

Nothing to add. It's all been said before.

It's Monday....bugger.

Paul.

ShozInOz

I notice that a lot of posts in this thread seem to be from people not in Australia, and still the in phase of 'justification' (been there) and 'disownment' (and associated pre-immigration 'vitriol' for want of a better word) - that is natural. Our experience as people who have lived in both countries is that: it depends.

One thing to get straight is that reality is subjective. You have to get you head around that before you can get far with this issue. In the UK (until 2 years ago) I lived in Leigh, Lancs (very bad reputation), Liverpool (Toxteth/Wavertree), Manchester (Fallowfield), Southampton, Chester, Gloucester, and Bournemouth. Some of these areas (e.g. the first three) have very bad repuations for crime. I've been assualted once - in Leigh, when very drunk myself at 19 y/o and someone thought I'd called them something (I was calling my mate something). I got a black eye. It was partly my own fault for binge drinking. Other than that, I've not been the victim of any other crime, and experiences no problems whatsoever. So my reality is tainted by that. Many of the posts on here are from people with very different experiences. And note that this is a very biased sample of people: the site is frequented largely by people who want to leave the UK, and the sample of posters in this thread probably have stronger than average views on the topic, hence their posts. (It's a bit like those ridiculous breakfast show phone-ins and their meaningless statistics.)

Currently I live in one of the most expensive suburbs of Sydney (Coogee). We rent a Unit as we could never afford to buy here (minimum house price around 1.3 million, or way out of my league). We've had no problems here either (though there is a fair amount of graffitti and apparently a lot of burglaries, but we've never been affected). Move out to some (esp. regional) areas of Australia and there are alcohol/drug/petrol-sniffing/etc-related problems that do not affect me here. Similarly in west and south-west Sydney there are gang and racial problems that do not affect me personally. The Melbourne gangland shootings between 1998 and 2004 did not affect me personally. The spate of gang-rapes in Sydney in 2000 did not affect me personally. The Cronulla and Redfern riots did not affect me personally. The huge social problems in, for instance, Dubbo and Wagga Wagga, do not affect me personally. If they did, then my perception of crime would be very different.

But I know a low of people in Sydney who were brought up here (south west and west) who personally had a lot of problems, especially with bullying (which seems to be widely acknowledged to be a problem in Australian secondary schools), assault, and inter-racial problems. The latter seems to be an issue for my (white and non-white) friends when they are at secondary school, which would be divided between whites, lebanese, islanders, vietnamese, chinese, etc. sub-groups. A friend from work encounters problems weekly or monthly where he lives in SW Sydney with local kids. He also had a lot of problems at school with inter-group issues. His reality is different and he has a very different view of Sydney to me.

But another big difference that affects people vicariously is the media. Recently here two 14 year old girls murdered and robbed a taxi driver. Very little news coverage. If this were the UK, I believe strongly that the coverage would be much different. Similarly, seven people were stabbed a week ago or so down at Bondi beach. Very little news. This affects our realities. Also, the media does not report in a proportional way. This means that the UK, with its 3x population, gets FAR more news coverage of crime because the *absolute* crime levels are higher (the relative levels are far more aligned), and national news in a small country is senstivie to absolute levels. Also, news reporting here is quite state-oriented, so we don't hear about the rapes in WA, for instance. This gives the impression that crime is much lower in Australia, when official statistics suggest otherwise. This may well be a good thing, because fear of crime in Australia seems to be lower, when the actual numbers of victims of crimes is more similar to the UK.

So it seems to come down to these things: where you lived in the UK and your experiences in the UK; where you live in Australia and your experiences in Australia; and media coverage in UK versus Australia.

The_Stockwells

And Kiama is just lovely! (to be British!!!!) Great blowhole! ;-)

andicee

Cheers for this. Seen 'em already tho.

andicee

Those happy memories seem so long ago. I'm only 39 for god's sake!! I think the problem we've got here, and it's one that will never be resolved, is that it's not the state of things in the UK we should be be-moaning, but the state of the WORLD.
Like it or not the world has changed since we were kids. The planet has become a much smaller place thanks to modern technology. I guess the change in the attitudes of 'some' of the younger generation has a lot to do with this. Then again, 'my' daughter isn't a yob but stick her in with the wrong crowd and I bet she would give it a fair go...peer pressure and all that. Then again, as a responsible parent, I can see these dangers and do my utmost to protect her from these scumbags by NOT allowing her to hang about on street corners, making sure she does her home-work and helping her with it.
I'm an honest hard-working happily married guy and I guess I have my parents to thank for that. Don't get me wrong; we didn't have it easy when we were growing up. My first 8 years on this planet were spent on the South Acton Estate during the height of the race riots of the early 70's, but I didn't grow up to be a scumbag. We then moved to Ealing but I spent a lot of time helping my dad at work in Brentford where most of the local youth spent their days sniffing glue on street corners. I STILL turned out fairly decent.
At the end of the day, moving to Oz, I'm gonna get rid of my mortgage and modest debt, own a house that is bigger than the one I currently own and hell, if nothing else is better there, at least it'll be warmer.

Lord Pom Percy

Most crime or most of the violent crimein OZ seems to happen in Sydney and Melbourne, Don't live in Sydney or Melboune. Tasmania has the lowest crime rate.

andicee

Heading for the Perth suburbs chap

ABCDiamond

It feels as if there is less, in my area. Also a local report says: the crime rates have been quoted as reducing http://www.police.qld.gov.au/News+an...1/annmsr09.htm

However, comparing crime rates to the UK, may have problems, for example, the above report includes the words: "The rate of offences reported to police", does this mean that Australia includes all offences reported ?

In comparison, the Met Police statistics quote: "Terms used in crime statistics: "Offences: These are confirmed reports of crimes being committed" http://www.met.police.uk/crimestatistics/
and
"Persons accused: This is a measure of people arrested and subsequently proceeded against. It does not include situations where people are arrested but there is no further action"

If these statements, from both the UK & the Australian police forces are actually correct, then the statistics are totally meaningless, as they are comparing very different results.


Agreed.

cranni

God that is terrible, the stories on here make me cringe, all of you come to beautiful Bunbury WA.

MartinLuther

Although the UK and Aus are kissing cousins when it comes to crime stats and media coverage, it appears to be easier to move from a bad area in the UK to a nicer area in Aus than it is to move from a bad area in the UK to a nicer area in the UK.

Mummy

Well, what can I say? I came to have a read of this forum because I am in the situation where I left the UK 18 months ago to come and live in Sydney, and I am now considering returning to the UK, and I wanted to try to remind myself of the reasons that I left the UK in the first place, to help balance my decision of whether to return or not.

My first reaction was suprise at the people posting about the lack of tolerance in society and the lack of respect between people, then going on to show their own lack of tolerance and respect by having a go at the people like me who are considering returning to the UK. Just because they want to go back???

I have found my time in Australia so far to be pleasant, and have not encountered any crime personally. However, I did read about an armed robbery in a petrol station near to where I live, and an attack in a post office nearby too recently. I also listened to a conversation between people at work who were discussing whether a colleague should move to North Sydney or Neutral Bay, and the discussions were about people's experiences of burgularies in the two areas.

I have lived in a few places in the UK - Plymouth, Bradford, Manchester, Wolverhampton, Cambridge, Stafford and Derby, and again have had no personal experiences of crime in any of those areas.

An aspect of Australian life that has not been mentioned here, that may be relevant to the topic is that of religion. My experience in Australia has shown me that the average Australian is way more religious than the average Brit, and the number of religious schools in relation to the number of schools in general is really high. Perhaps children may turn out nicer here because of the religious upbringing, and the fear not of authority but that of god? I am not religious myself before anyone comments on this, and would not send my son to a religious school, it is merely an observation that I have. Virtually every Australian that I have met goes to church, and most that I know have sent their children to a religious school.

Yes, my neighbours here have lovely children, in their early teens, and I do agree that most of the Sydney children I have met have not
only been friendly to adults, but also quite willing to have a conversation with them. But also, I had the same experience when living in Wolverhampton - the children I met there were lovely too.

I think a lot of it does have to do with the area that you live in - I could quite easily move to another suburb of sydney and experience personal crime every week. Likewise, another suburb of Wolverhampton.

Catherine

sasbear

I agree totally!

I was teaching in the UK and was assaulted twice in the space of 3 months - this was not an inner city school - this was in a small mining village!

The punishment for the offenders - a 5 day exclusion - I refused to teach them and was called a 'trouble causer'!!!

Sarah

jad n rich

Glad I got the glue out then Heres a more recent sample. Talking about the behaviour of girls if you can call them that in schools in NSW.

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/

BadgeIsBack

exactly. This is the sole reason why many people

i) migrate
ii) want to migrate
iii) achieve satisfaction

I don't care that people knock the UK for their bad experiences. The world is not equal.

BadgeIsBack

to be fair on Vash, he ofen goes out of this way to look at stats ( a good objective metric) even when others have long not bothered to interpret them. What has he just done?
Of couse as we all know, stats can be problematic.