Expats contemplating or moved back to UK?
Aug 25th 2003, 1:29 pm
#16
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Re: Expats contemplating or moved back to UK?
Originally posted by doggmeister
Hi Guys
I read this site for the first time and love all the information it has to offer..thanks so much for the posts!
I have a question though, in about 3 weeks I am making the move to NZ for what I hope will be a permanent move (1st time visit too!) and I wonder what the likely hood is of landing a job...but more importantly as an Asian would I suffer any racist issue swhen it came to applying for jobs??
Finally I am really curious as to those of you tha have made the move have any of you come back (for reasons such as inability to find a job..or to find the RIGHT job?) and if so why? Also are there any of you thinking about moving back to UK and if so again why?
Thanks for any responses..I'm a nervous wreck at the thought of going!!
Hi Guys
I read this site for the first time and love all the information it has to offer..thanks so much for the posts!
I have a question though, in about 3 weeks I am making the move to NZ for what I hope will be a permanent move (1st time visit too!) and I wonder what the likely hood is of landing a job...but more importantly as an Asian would I suffer any racist issue swhen it came to applying for jobs??
Finally I am really curious as to those of you tha have made the move have any of you come back (for reasons such as inability to find a job..or to find the RIGHT job?) and if so why? Also are there any of you thinking about moving back to UK and if so again why?
Thanks for any responses..I'm a nervous wreck at the thought of going!!
I thought I might share my own experience's of living and working in NZ. In 1993 my wife (Julie) and I after having secured residency visors set of for a working holiday with a view to staying permanently. Well the latter was my view of the situation not my wife's - the first mistake. We felt pretty confident about finding good jobs having done a lot of research prior to our departure. We decided to stay in Auckland for a couple of weeks before moving on. However Julie found a job as a hospital doctor near where we were renting in Papatoetoe within two weeks and I found a job as teacher in a small college in Ponsonby within six weeks. So we stayed in Auckland.
I must say I loved the country and found the climate, space and people very agreeable. However, Julie was terribly homesick, missing family, freinds and British culture. We lived without a tv for a year. This was no great loss - the tv then was very much like in the US. Adverts every ten minutes or so it seemed and generally not a very stimulating schedule. We tend to go for documentaries, wild life programs - the more serious stuff. We also missed UK newspapers and news and would avidily read and lookforward to the guardian or other weekly's from the UK.
However the lack of culture was more than compensated for by the climate. Auckland has mild winters 14 degrees Celcius when it can be raining, cloudy and windy. However it is unusal not to have some sunshine as well The summers are warm to hot 23 degrees Celcius. If you like being outdoors it is the place to be.
Interestingly we did not find the walking in NZ not as good as in the UK. They do not enjoy the histroic rights of way we have here with our thousands of miles of public footpaths through an incredibly varied landscapes. Walks (tramps) are more formalised and take place in designated areas or national parks. However to be fair my collegues at work told me to just put my boots on and walk over or beside the fields - they thought it unlikely that anybody would be bothered! I didn't find this easy and it felt like tresspassing - which I guess is what it is. There was also an absence of footpaths and snickets so a short evening stroll around where we lived usually involved walking next to the road with the usuall nuisance that traffick entails.
I can't really comment directly on the racism issue since I'm white and didn't encounter much. However, 95% of the kids I taught in the college were either from polyenesian, maori or asian extraction. I did learn however that racism is not just white on black. The samoan kids would sometimes taunt the tongans and vice versa. Or the polynesian kids the asisn kids etc. This was usually verbal and could be sorted out with a telling off, with not much damage done - hopefully!
After tweenty months in NZ and some very pleasant holidays in both the north and south island my wife gave me an ultimatum.
I could stay in NZ if I wanted but she was heading back to the UK.
We both returned - and are still together ten years and two children later. We rented our house out in Salford while we were away and put it under a managemnet company. So althought we had several tennants in during our absence - there were no great problems. It did mean however that part of the time the house was unoccupied and we had to pay the mortgage and have the worry about vandalism and burglary etc.
In summary the UK and NZ are two very beautiful countries with both similarities and differences. I could live happily in either and if wealthy would live in both.
good luck on your travels
dave
Aug 25th 2003, 4:03 pm
#17
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Hi Dave(and Ace!) thanks so muc for your comments they are extremely insightful and I appreciate your advice
Dave does that mean you're back in the UK? Woul dyou ever go back? Or eslewhere for that matter?
Dave does that mean you're back in the UK? Woul dyou ever go back? Or eslewhere for that matter?
Aug 25th 2003, 5:30 pm
#18
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Posts: 4
Originally posted by doggmeister
Hi Dave(and Ace!) thanks so muc for your comments they are extremely insightful and I appreciate your advice
Dave does that mean you're back in the UK? Woul dyou ever go back? Or eslewhere for that matter?
Hi Dave(and Ace!) thanks so muc for your comments they are extremely insightful and I appreciate your advice
Dave does that mean you're back in the UK? Woul dyou ever go back? Or eslewhere for that matter?
We are back in the UK and have been since Dec 95. There is an ongoing debate in our house about our return to NZ it goes something like this. Me – I would like to return to NZ. Julie – you can if you want but I’m not going. This I find less than satisfactory as you can imagine. I usually get itchy feet with the onset of autumn and the colder weather. The worst part of the UK winter is the length and the dull, windy, wet weather we get in Jan/Feb when you can have weeks without seeing the sun. I like the seasons so if we did go back I would head for the south island. They do have a winter, but it is comparatively short with a lot more sunshine that we get here. I liked both Christchurch and Dunedin.
We stayed in Auckland as I previously said because we both got jobs their very quickly.
To be fair to Julie she points out that I am viewing NZ through rose tinted glasses when we didn’t have children. Then we could take of after a weeks work and drive down to the Coramandel Peninsula, walk on the beech, have romantic meals for two etc. In my experience children do not lend themselves to romantic meals for two. Given that we have both sets of grandparents near where we live, good schools, health care, shops etc Julie maintains the quality of life in NZ would be less than here. We would simply be taking the normal problems associated with two young kids 8 and 6 to NZ, without the family support. At least here we do get a couple of weekends a year away by ourselves! And dotting grand parents babysitting occasionally. She has a point.
I suppose I’m the dreamer in the family and she’s the practical one. It seems to have worked for 22 years – so I expect we will stay here in the UK and I will do what I periodically do. That is surf the web and looks for stories and pictures of the land of the “long white cloud� and thinks of what might have been.
Best wish
Dave
Aug 25th 2003, 6:09 pm
#19
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 730
Originally posted by dab2
Me – I would like to return to NZ. Julie – you can if you want but I’m not going. This I find less than satisfactory as you can imagine.
Me – I would like to return to NZ. Julie – you can if you want but I’m not going. This I find less than satisfactory as you can imagine.
Sorry, found this amusing!
Hope you make it back though, she might come round...
There's a follow up to the bbc2 relocation show soon, 'Get a New Wife'.......might be an idea!
Perhaps not a good idea to show her this though...
Anyway, good luck & thanks for the posts..
Gra..
Aug 26th 2003, 12:12 am
#20
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 18
Re: Expats contemplating or moved back to UK?
Originally posted by doggmeister
I have a question though, in about 3 weeks I am making the move to NZ for what I hope will be a permanent move (1st time visit too!) and I wonder what the likely hood is of landing a job...but more importantly as an Asian would I suffer any racist issue swhen it came to applying for jobs??
Thanks for any responses..I'm a nervous wreck at the thought of going!!
I have a question though, in about 3 weeks I am making the move to NZ for what I hope will be a permanent move (1st time visit too!) and I wonder what the likely hood is of landing a job...but more importantly as an Asian would I suffer any racist issue swhen it came to applying for jobs??
Thanks for any responses..I'm a nervous wreck at the thought of going!!
I have one West Indian parent, live in Australia but travel to NZ fairly regularly as DH is a kiwi and don't find that people treat me any different. The most I get is interested looks, but definitely not stares of the kind I used to get growing up in Worcestershire in the 1970s.
In fact NZ has really changed since I first visited in 1989. Back then you only had whites and Maoris and a few others. Now there is a lot of diversity. I saw Somalians in Hamilton, a town that I considered in 1989 to be a sleepy country town.
I don't think the employment will be any different from the UK myself. I agree with ACE and s/pick - if you hold yourself back and don't take any risks you won't get anywhere!
Good luck!
Rach
Aug 26th 2003, 2:55 am
#21
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 95
From my experience there is more racial tension with maori/pacific islanders than other ethnic groups here in NZ. The only problems my kids have had at school and in the community is with the indigenous people(violence, theft, threats). Also there is growing resentment here because most of the maori leadership in this country are claiming resources, mountains, lakes, rivers and anything else that that think they can get under a document called The Treaty of waitangi which is obscure enough to enable them to claim anything they want. recently they claimed the seashore and seabed but the Government said no it had to stay as public domain . A poll showed about 50% of maori wanted to fight the government on the issue. There are alot of Asian people over here and I dont know of any real problems in terms of racial tension. Asians here seem to have a good work ethic, are polite and easy to get along with in general. I dont think youll have too much trouble getting work and I suggest Auckland because there is a large Asian population there and you will find it easier to begin with.
Aug 26th 2003, 7:10 am
#22
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ACE
Great post Ace, good luck to you.
Whisky
Originally posted by Wilf
This is a very interesting thread. I have worked in Perth, all over Japan, Alaska, Hong kong, Singapore, the Carribean, Europe and the UK. This was when I was in show business so I suppose that could be considered specialised skill. As far as racism is concerned attitude does have a lot to do with how it affects your life on a day to day basis, as you can imagine I was stared at in many of these places and not subtly either people would stop in their tracks and stare until I was out of sight. However it never really bothered me as I realised some people had never seen a black person before. In such situations I could have aggressively asked what they were looking at or smiled and said good morning, I chose the latter course of action and still do.
I live in a very upmarket totally white area of Ashingdon and a lot of curtains were twitching the day we moved in. I went round to all of my new neighbours, introduced myself and invited them over for a barbecue. I was greeted by some suprised and in some cases terrified people but 5 years on I cannot walk to the corner shop without being stopped or greeted by one of my neighbours or business owners around here. My neighbours bring fresh produce from their gardens and bring christmas and easter gifts for my children and it has been pretty much my experience where ever I have lived.
As far as OZ being behind the times I can only comment on Perth when I first visited in the 1980's. I was made to feel very welcome although a bit of a novelty, I thought it was utopia and then one day my friends took the company to a bar in the centre of Perth, it seemed like a nice place. I very gradually became aware that I was being stared at and sensed an atmosphere. Eventually an big six foot Ozzie came up to me stared at me for a while then with a huge grin on his face said "sorry mate, I thought you was an Abbo, we don't allow them in here but you're alright" he then offered to buy me a drink, needless to say I was shocked and left. Threre I was 19 and thougt i knew it all and I had spent an evening in a seggregated bar and I didn't even know such things existed outside of SA and the USA in the 'enlightened' 1980's.
Living in a county on a permanant basis and competing in an already over subscribed job market is another matter I am in my third year of a BSc hons in Computing, my specialism is WAN and LAN installation, IP configuration and Internet security, I know these skills are in demand but I don't intend to look for work in this field in Perth teaching would be more condusive to the lifestyle we would like to enjoy. I will be a qualified TESOL adult tutor and a Montessori early years educator it won't be easy but I can only try.
I have been physically attacked twice here in the UK, once by two skinheads in Romford and once by two black men when I was in a West Indian take away in London with my white husband. It is a ghastly thing to experience but I don't for one second imagine that such incidence are limited to the UK.
I worry for my children though we are stared at even here in Ashingdon, Essex but I think that is because my boys are unusually beautiful. Seriously I do fear that they will be descriminated against but then that could happen anywhere.
So yes I agree, Oz is probably behind the times and yes racism is everywhere, (belive it or not this is a fact)yes attitude does make a difference, no Wilf you are not the problem, you are always willing to voice your opinions in no uncertain terms regardless of the inevitable backlash.
People fear the unknown it's human nature and although the UK is progressive in many ways and a great place to live legislation makes very little difference and ignoring racism and working hard does not always work here or anywhere else. When it comes to employment it is people's attitude towards you that count and I'm afraid to say that if the person interviewing you does not like you for any reason it is very difficult to accept and indeed, hard to prove that it is descrimination why you didn't get the job.
S/Pick has a good attitude and I know from experience that it does sometimes pay off to have a positive attitude. It may seem idealistic to some but I see it as optimistic and positive admirable qualities indeed.
Kind Regards
ACE
This is a very interesting thread. I have worked in Perth, all over Japan, Alaska, Hong kong, Singapore, the Carribean, Europe and the UK. This was when I was in show business so I suppose that could be considered specialised skill. As far as racism is concerned attitude does have a lot to do with how it affects your life on a day to day basis, as you can imagine I was stared at in many of these places and not subtly either people would stop in their tracks and stare until I was out of sight. However it never really bothered me as I realised some people had never seen a black person before. In such situations I could have aggressively asked what they were looking at or smiled and said good morning, I chose the latter course of action and still do.
I live in a very upmarket totally white area of Ashingdon and a lot of curtains were twitching the day we moved in. I went round to all of my new neighbours, introduced myself and invited them over for a barbecue. I was greeted by some suprised and in some cases terrified people but 5 years on I cannot walk to the corner shop without being stopped or greeted by one of my neighbours or business owners around here. My neighbours bring fresh produce from their gardens and bring christmas and easter gifts for my children and it has been pretty much my experience where ever I have lived.
As far as OZ being behind the times I can only comment on Perth when I first visited in the 1980's. I was made to feel very welcome although a bit of a novelty, I thought it was utopia and then one day my friends took the company to a bar in the centre of Perth, it seemed like a nice place. I very gradually became aware that I was being stared at and sensed an atmosphere. Eventually an big six foot Ozzie came up to me stared at me for a while then with a huge grin on his face said "sorry mate, I thought you was an Abbo, we don't allow them in here but you're alright" he then offered to buy me a drink, needless to say I was shocked and left. Threre I was 19 and thougt i knew it all and I had spent an evening in a seggregated bar and I didn't even know such things existed outside of SA and the USA in the 'enlightened' 1980's.
Living in a county on a permanant basis and competing in an already over subscribed job market is another matter I am in my third year of a BSc hons in Computing, my specialism is WAN and LAN installation, IP configuration and Internet security, I know these skills are in demand but I don't intend to look for work in this field in Perth teaching would be more condusive to the lifestyle we would like to enjoy. I will be a qualified TESOL adult tutor and a Montessori early years educator it won't be easy but I can only try.
I have been physically attacked twice here in the UK, once by two skinheads in Romford and once by two black men when I was in a West Indian take away in London with my white husband. It is a ghastly thing to experience but I don't for one second imagine that such incidence are limited to the UK.
I worry for my children though we are stared at even here in Ashingdon, Essex but I think that is because my boys are unusually beautiful
. Seriously I do fear that they will be descriminated against but then that could happen anywhere. So yes I agree, Oz is probably behind the times and yes racism is everywhere, (belive it or not this is a fact)yes attitude does make a difference, no Wilf you are not the problem, you are always willing to voice your opinions in no uncertain terms regardless of the inevitable backlash.
People fear the unknown it's human nature and although the UK is progressive in many ways and a great place to live legislation makes very little difference and ignoring racism and working hard does not always work here or anywhere else. When it comes to employment it is people's attitude towards you that count and I'm afraid to say that if the person interviewing you does not like you for any reason it is very difficult to accept and indeed, hard to prove that it is descrimination why you didn't get the job.
S/Pick has a good attitude and I know from experience that it does sometimes pay off to have a positive attitude. It may seem idealistic to some but I see it as optimistic and positive admirable qualities indeed.
Kind Regards
ACE
Whisky
Aug 26th 2003, 8:56 am
#23
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thanks so much hmiltonnz and mubo guy for the positive words of encourage and for sharing
Aug 26th 2003, 10:41 am
#24
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I have just been speaking to a guy from Sri Lanka who has lived in Auckland for the last 6 years and was very positive about the fact that he has NOT been the victim of racism in NZ and seemed shocked that I would even suggest that he might have been. His experience of being an asian immigrant has been purely positive.
Aug 26th 2003, 10:43 am
#25
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Originally posted by S/pick
I grew up in a village in Lincolnshire in the 70"s and we were the only black family and trust me not a lot bothers me. I have experienced racism in the Uk the majority of my life and been turned down for jobs. To be honest I'm not bother by it. People will say and do has they please and so will I. If you believe you are a second class citizen then you should expect to be treated so. My grandparents came to the Uk in the 50's with money in their pockets and bought a property for the family to live in. My grandparents, uncle's, aunt's and my mother suffered serious racism and all are successful individuals in a society. Not everyone is a racist and has a brain as large as pip.
If I was bothered by what people think of me or my skin colour(that's all it is) I would'nt have achieved anything in life.
I grew up in a village in Lincolnshire in the 70"s and we were the only black family and trust me not a lot bothers me. I have experienced racism in the Uk the majority of my life and been turned down for jobs. To be honest I'm not bother by it. People will say and do has they please and so will I. If you believe you are a second class citizen then you should expect to be treated so. My grandparents came to the Uk in the 50's with money in their pockets and bought a property for the family to live in. My grandparents, uncle's, aunt's and my mother suffered serious racism and all are successful individuals in a society. Not everyone is a racist and has a brain as large as pip.
If I was bothered by what people think of me or my skin colour(that's all it is) I would'nt have achieved anything in life.
I also grew up in a village in Lincolnshire in the 70's where there was only one black family (I'm white) - was it you? where did you live?
David.
Aug 26th 2003, 11:39 am
#26
Here in Dunedin
Joined: May 2003
Location: Dunedin
Posts: 1,975
Re: Expats contemplating or moved back to UK?
Good thread everyone - interesting to get different views.
Certainly, NZ has become a much more cosmopolitan place in the last 10-15 years (I guess "cosmopolitan" is code for ethnically mixed). So it can't fail to be a bit behind the times when compared to the UK, which has a much longer history of very diverse peoples.
Us kiwis are simple folk, and probably do impolitely stare at somebody who looks a bit different. But not from malice, more from curiosity.
As far as I am aware there are no significant skinhead problems or BNP type organisations in NZ.
There are some in NZ who hold strong anti-immigrant feelings. Often these people justify their views on economic grounds, such as the cost of housing in Auckland. There is also concern about the pace of asian immigration into Auckland, the population balance has changed dramatically in 10 years and it will take a bit of time for some people's views to catch up with the reality of this (and the city's infrastructure too - but that is another topic I think)
For any potential migrants of a non-European background, I would recommend that you do still consider NZ as a destination. You may sometimes require a thick skin (like in all new countries), but most times you will be rewarded with the famous NZ hospitality, especially if you demonstrate the positive attitudes shown by others in this thread.
Certainly, NZ has become a much more cosmopolitan place in the last 10-15 years (I guess "cosmopolitan" is code for ethnically mixed). So it can't fail to be a bit behind the times when compared to the UK, which has a much longer history of very diverse peoples.
Us kiwis are simple folk, and probably do impolitely stare at somebody who looks a bit different. But not from malice, more from curiosity.
As far as I am aware there are no significant skinhead problems or BNP type organisations in NZ.
There are some in NZ who hold strong anti-immigrant feelings. Often these people justify their views on economic grounds, such as the cost of housing in Auckland. There is also concern about the pace of asian immigration into Auckland, the population balance has changed dramatically in 10 years and it will take a bit of time for some people's views to catch up with the reality of this (and the city's infrastructure too - but that is another topic I think)
For any potential migrants of a non-European background, I would recommend that you do still consider NZ as a destination. You may sometimes require a thick skin (like in all new countries), but most times you will be rewarded with the famous NZ hospitality, especially if you demonstrate the positive attitudes shown by others in this thread.
Aug 26th 2003, 11:54 am
#27
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Originally posted by whisky
Great post Ace, good luck to you.
Whisky
Great post Ace, good luck to you.
Whisky
I have wanted to share my thoughts on this topic for some time and enjoyed putting my experiences and feelings into words.
ACE
Aug 26th 2003, 12:12 pm
#28
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Perth
I would be very intrested to hear some views on this topic from people living in Perth.
Many Thanks
ACE
Many Thanks
ACE
Aug 26th 2003, 3:33 pm
#29
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Hi Bearskin in a village called Spilsby, If you can call somewhere with only 10 houses a village. Where did you live?
Aug 26th 2003, 4:06 pm
#30
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Yeah I know Spilsby. I grew up in Lea, just south of Gainsborough. We had one black family in the village.
Where did you go to school? I remember at our school - QEGS in Gainsborough there was a lad in my brothers year called Linden White. He was good at football (like my brother) and a really top bloke.
I never really knew any other non-white people until I left and moved to Bristol. I did once kiss a chinese girl on the bus once on the way back from the ice rink in Sheffield! Julie Wong - she was nice.
Where did you go to school? I remember at our school - QEGS in Gainsborough there was a lad in my brothers year called Linden White. He was good at football (like my brother) and a really top bloke.
I never really knew any other non-white people until I left and moved to Bristol. I did once kiss a chinese girl on the bus once on the way back from the ice rink in Sheffield! Julie Wong - she was nice.